What is most recent grant of leave for ILR and job creation point

Please note that I am on 5-year entrepreneur visa. I got my visa in May 2014 and applied for an extension in May 2017 at the completion of 3 years initial leave. I got approval in April 2018.
I got the visa approval which is valid from April 2018 till April 2020 while my 5 years period is completing in May 2019. In the meantime, my business was running and two employees were working after submitting an extension in May 2017 and getting their salaries.

I need clarification in the light of home office guidance of job creation which says

The jobs must have existed for at least 12 months during the period of the most recent grant of leave as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) migrant.
• they cannot claim points for any employment activity from their initial period of
leave (as this can only be used to score points for the applicant's first extension
application)
The 2 jobs created in their initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more
jobs which exist for 12 months, if the 2 jobs created during their initial period of leave
have ceased to exist.

I got visa extension approval in April 2018.

I want to know what is my most recent grant of leave that is from May 2017 till May 2019 or from April 2018 till April 2020?

Can I apply for ILR in April 2019 upon completion of 5 years period and claiming job creation points from the period May 2017 till May 2019 or I have to claim job creation points after visa approval which I got in April 2018?

Further to the post, the 5 years period will be completed in May 2018 and I can apply 28 days prior the qualifying period.

Please also clarify that if the jobs maintained or created in 12 months period right from the date of extension application (after 3 years initial leave) submitted and it is not required to count the 12 months period immediately before the date of application.

The most recent period of grant is after your extension is granted, so from April 2018. You can apply in April 2019 (28 days before completing 5 years) but you need to have your job creation requirement met between April 2018 and your application date.

Thanks for the clarification, can you please also clarify the following point, thanks:
The 2 jobs created in their initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more
jobs which exist for 12 months, if the 2 jobs created during their initial period of leave
have ceased to exist

samba123 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:08 pm

Thanks for the clarification, can you please also clarify the following point, thanks:
The 2 jobs created in their initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more
jobs which exist for 12 months, if the 2 jobs created during their initial period of leave
have ceased to exist

This just says that it can be jobs that continue from your first period or can be new ones. They are just trying to say that they don't insist the same jobs need to continue throughout

Thanks. The confusing point is if we can claim the job activity points for ILR application of the jobs existed or created after making the extension application and until the extension was granted. Or can we combine the job hours or employees between the period, awaiting the extension application decision and after the extension granted until ILR.

samba123 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:50 pm

Thanks. The confusing point is if we can claim the job activity points for ILR application of the jobs existed or created after making the extension application and until the extension was granted. Or can we combine the job hours or employees between the period, awaiting the extension application decision and after the extension granted until ILR.

To repeat, you can only claim points for jobs created OR existing after April 2018

The rules clearly say that you can continue the jobs those are existed at the time of extension application or create new jobs for another 12 months to claim ILR once the 5 year period in total is completed as a Tier1 route. Therefore, if the jobs existed or created for 12 months right after the extension application. And the decision on extension application takes, for example, 12 months, how can we define this rule. In addition, the rules say that you are eligible to apply for ILR after 5 years completion on this route. If we count the recent grant of leave period onward from the date of the extension approval (in this case 12 months, and in most of the other cases it's much more) no one can never apply for ILR after 5 years period. Will much appreciate clarification on this point, thanks

samba123 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:56 pm

The rules clearly say that you can continue the jobs those are existed at the time of extension application or create new jobs for another 12 months to claim ILR once the 5 year period in total is completed as a Tier1 route. Therefore, if the jobs existed or created for 12 months right after the extension application. And the decision on extension application takes, for example, 12 months, how can we define this rule. In addition, the rules say that you are eligible to apply for ILR after 5 years completion on this route. If we count the recent grant of leave period onward from the date of the extension approval (in this case 12 months, and in most of the other cases it's much more) no one can never apply for ILR after 5 years period. Will much appreciate clarification on this point, thanks

You raise a good point and HO realised that earlier this year. So they did change the rules so that you can use the jobs during the extension period BUT ONLY if your ILR application is LESS than 12 months after extension grant.

You don't benefit from that as your ILR application will be 12 months after your extension grant.

Thanks. However, all HO guidance and rules clearly describe that we can claim points of the job that were existed or created after the date of initial extension application for at least 12 months. They have not mentioned anywhere that the period of that 12 months will be considered after extension is granted. Can you please clarify again and also is there HO document available that explains this point, thanks

samba123 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:00 am

Thanks. However, all HO guidance and rules clearly describe that we can claim points of the job that were existed or created after the date of initial extension application for at least 12 months. They have not mentioned anywhere that the period of that 12 months will be considered after extension is granted. Can you please clarify again and also is there HO document available that explains this point, thanks

Can you quote the part where it says "can claim points of the job that were existed or created after the date of initial extension application"

I have never seen a reference to extension application date anywhere - so I am very keen to learn and I can better address the issue.

on all HO guidance noted, it is mentioned that any job existed or created after making initial extension application provided those have existed for 12 months can be claimed towards for ILR application. The only limitation is those jobs should (created during initial leave) not be claimed again that were claimed in the extension application. It never says that that job can only be claimed only after extension application approval. I am just trying to understand where the confusion is, thanks.

The immigration rules TRUMP the guidance notes every time.

See Immigration Rules Appendix A - Attributes (table 6) below.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... attributes

3 The applicant has:

(a) established a new business or businesses that has or have created the equivalent of at least 2 new full time jobs for settled workers, or

(b) taken over or invested in an existing business or businesses and their services or investment have resulted in a net increase in the employment provided by the business or businesses for settled workers by creating the equivalent of at least 2 new full time jobs for settled workers.

The jobs must have existed for at least 12 months during the applicant’s most recent grant of leave or, where that leave was granted less than 12 months ago, for at least the 12 months immediately before the date of application.

yes, this is correct, However, we should take the following rules into account as well, which are obvious and clear :
they cannot claim points for any employment activity from their initial period of
leave (as this can only be used to score points for the applicant's first extension
application)
The 2 jobs created in their initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more
jobs which exist for 12 months, if the 2 jobs created during their initial period of leave
have ceased to exist.

There is nothing mentioned in anywhere in HO guidance notes that these 12 months period will only be considered after extension application is approved.
I am unable to understand what ambiguity is in these rules, please clarify, thanks

It would be really useful if you are going to post quoted information, to actually post the link where it is from!!!

samba123 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:01 pm

yes, this is correct, However, we should take the following rules into account as well, which are obvious and clear :
they cannot claim points for any employment activity from their initial period of
leave (as this can only be used to score points for the applicant's first extension
application)
The 2 jobs created in their initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more
jobs which exist for 12 months, if the 2 jobs created during their initial period of leave
have ceased to exist.

There is nothing mentioned in anywhere in HO guidance notes that these 12 months period will only be considered after extension application is approved.
I am unable to understand what ambiguity is in these rules, please clarify, thanks

marcnath wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:09 am

samba123 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:00 am

Thanks. However, all HO guidance and rules clearly describe that we can claim points of the job that were existed or created after the date of initial extension application for at least 12 months. They have not mentioned anywhere that the period of that 12 months will be considered after extension is granted. Can you please clarify again and also is there HO document available that explains this point, thanks

Can you quote the part where it says "can claim points of the job that were existed or created after the date of initial extension application"

I have never seen a reference to extension application date anywhere - so I am very keen to learn and I can better address the issue.

If not anything else, it would be great to give details of exactly where you got the clear description of a reference to extension application date. (rule number of page/para number in the guidance). That will help answer your question.

@CR001 has already posted the relevant rule which is also in the guidance that clearly refers to "most recent grant of leave". And I can't see how the extension period qualifies as a "most recent grant of leave". I am lost as to what the ambiguity is.

you can read this page 105 of HO Entrepreneur extension/ILR guidance notes as published on 05/11/2018

samba123 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:53 pm

you can read this page 105 of HO Entrepreneur extension/ILR guidance notes as published on 05/11/2018

The Immigration Rules is what you need to follow and what a caseworker bases their decisions on. The Guidance notes are just that, a snap shot set of notes.

Not sure why you cannot simply post a link. Some of us use our mobile devices!!!

samba123 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:53 pm

you can read this page 105 of HO Entrepreneur extension/ILR guidance notes as published on 05/11/2018

There are only 65 pages in that guidance.

OK, The policy guidance I am referring to \, you can that in the table E, The Job Creation Table.
It clearly states that You must: Maintain the 2 jobs created in your initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more jobs which exist for 12 months if the 2 jobs created during your
initial period of leave have ceased to exist. Can you please help to clear the key point in this discussion that how can we spread those 12 months period after extension application after 3 years initial leave. Furthermore, as per Entrepreneur visa rules, the policy is very clear and obvious that you get initial 3 years and then get further 2 years extension, and after completing 5 years in total you can apply for settlement. Can you give a reference that explains that your further leave after the initial period will start after extension? If that is the case, not a single application can apply for settlement after completing 5 years. For example, if a decision of extension application is made in a years time then total period on this for settlement will be minimum 6 years.

samba123 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:13 pm

OK, The policy guidance I am referring to \, you can that in the table E, The Job Creation Table.
It clearly states that You must: Maintain the 2 jobs created in your initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more jobs which exist for 12 months if the 2 jobs created during your
initial period of leave have ceased to exist. Can you please help to clear the key point in this discussion that how can we spread those 12 months period after extension application after 3 years initial leave. Furthermore, as per Entrepreneur visa rules, the policy is very clear and obvious that you get initial 3 years and then get further 2 years extension, and after completing 5 years in total you can apply for settlement. Can you give a reference that explains that your further leave after the initial period will start after extension? If that is the case, not a single application can apply for settlement after completing 5 years. For example, if a decision of extension application is made in a years time then total period on this for settlement will be minimum 6 years.

I think I tried to explain it a few times but clearly it is not getting through.
First, 5 years is the MINIMUM qualifying period for ILR. There is no rule that you need to apply immediately upon reaching 5 years. Plenty of people apply well after 5 years for various reason. Some may have a second or third extension before applying for ILR if they have heavy travel or do not complete LIUK - all of that is ok.
Now, let me try to give some examples.
Case 1
Applicant A gets initial visa on 1/1/2014.
Applies for extension on 31/12/2016
Gets extension on 1/12/2018 (almost two years later).
Has employed two people throughout.
A can apply for ILR on 4/12/2018 (28 days before qualifying) in exactly 5 years. As per the rules A can use jobs created 12 months before application date (from 5/12/2017 to 4/12/2018) even if that falls in the waiting period.

Case 2
Applicant B gets initial visa on 1/1/2014.
Applies for extension on 31/12/2016
Gets extension on 1/2/2018 (13 months later).
Has employed two people throughout.
A can apply for ILR on 4/12/2018 (28 days before qualifying) in exactly 5 years. As per the rules A can use jobs created 12 months before application date (from 5/12/2017 to 4/12/2018) even if part of that falls in the waiting period.

Case 2
Applicant C gets initial visa on 1/1/2014.
Applies for extension on 31/12/2016
Gets extension on 1/2/2018 (13 months later).
His employees left on 30/6/2018.
A cannot apply for ILR on 4/12/2018 as two jobs DO NOT exist between 5/12/2017 and 4/12/2018. Jobs before 5/12/2017 cannot be counted. C would now need to apply for ILR whenever the job requirement, which will probably after C fills those jobs for 7 months more each (as 5 months after extension is available)

Hope that makes it clear.

I understand what you say, however, the only point to be understood is ;

Maintain the 2 jobs created in your initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more jobs which exist for 12 months if the 2 jobs created during your
the initial period of leave have ceased to exist.

How we can define those 12 months period, i.e if it is after the first extension applied, after extension application approved, after the second extension. It clearly says further 12 months, how we can define further that means after extension? It never says anywhere in the guidelines that this 12 months periods can be used after extension granted. We should not take only one line into consideration, we have to take this rule separately, it has a different meaning. Please clarify this points, thanks.

samba123 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:11 pm

I understand what you say, however, the only point to be understood is ;

Maintain the 2 jobs created in your initial leave for a further 12 months, or Create 2 more jobs which exist for 12 months if the 2 jobs created during your
the initial period of leave have ceased to exist.

How we can define those 12 months period, i.e if it is after the first extension applied, after extension application approved, after the second extension. It clearly says further 12 months, how we can define further that means after extension? It never says anywhere in the guidelines that this 12 months periods can be used after extension granted. We should not take only one line into consideration, we have to take this rule separately, it has a different meaning. Please clarify this points, thanks.

I am sorry but I don't understand your question.

You are expected to meet ALL the conditions in the immigration rules, not the ones you select.

As I tried to explain earlier, the sentence you have quoted only tells you that you don't have to create totally new jobs for ILR purposes. You just have to maintain it for another 12 months.

As to when that 12 months should happen is a totally different issue. And that is defined in the immigration rules (and guidance) as during the latest period of grant. And your latest grant period starts with the approval of your extension.

Here's the bottom line - we have been trying to give you the interpretation as we understand based on our knowledge and experience. It is your application and you can feel free to read it as you want to.