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Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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compacttree
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Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by compacttree » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:10 pm

I am a UK citizen. My wife recently applied for an Irish visa as a qualifying member of an EU citizen. The visa was rejected. The reasons for refusal were;

1. " We gave no evidence to support my claim that I intend to exercise my treaty rights , I do not have on offer of employment in Ireland nor I have provided evidence of an attempt to secure employment. The embassy also stated that it was noted in my wife's UK refusal letter that I was unemployed in the UK" ( I was unemployed when I applied for a UK visa years back, the application was rejected).

2. "No evidence has been submitted with the application to show that you have sought or secured any accommodation arrangements for Ireland".

3." You have not submitted a statement from your EU citizen family member confirming that they will be travelling with you to Ireland in exercise of their EU free movement rights".

4. "Neither you nor your sponsor have ties to Ireland. You and your sponsor have not demonstrated adequate reasoning or motive for moving to Ireland".

"For this reasons, and on the basis of an examination of the circumstances of your case, your application for a visa is hereby refused".

"In reaching this decision, due regard has also been had to the public policy imperative of maintaining the integrity of the State's immigration system, including the integrity and security of the Common Travel Area with the United Kingdom, as well as the overall security of the State".

For the first reason, I don't think we need to provide any evidence other than a letter stating that I will be exercising my treaty rights. And I also do not have to have secured a job before exercising my treaty rights from outside the State, there is no where it is mentioned as a requirement to show proof that I am attempting to secure employment other than a statement of purpose or letter which my wife provided with the application.

The second reason states that we provided no evidence that we have sought or secured any accommodation arrangements. The directive does not require that we provide evidence of this so I am amazed that they can actually state this as one of the reasons.

For the third reason, I admit that I did not provide a letter stating I will be exercising my treaty rights because we felt my wife's letter was enough, I am now realizing I should have submitted it.

For the fourth reason, I don't think having ties in Ireland can be considered as a requirement when considering a visa application based on the EU directive.


I will like to know what is best way to go about this, will it be wise to appeal or submit another application. Your advise will be very helpful.

max307
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by max307 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:06 pm

I think their biggest concern is that you will use Ireland as a back door to the UK through the Common Travel Area (CTA) given the fact that there is no passport control between Ireland and the UK.

I recommended to others in similar circumstances to not waste time and effort in an appeal. I would submit another application tackling every single reason for refusal, you have their letter so you know what exactly they had issues with.

It might involve you moving to Ireland and getting a job here, I think that's the best case scenario for the visa to be approved.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

littlerr
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by littlerr » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:30 pm

I don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds like this is a very poorly prepared application. I honestly can't see how you would be able to appeal that decision.

Firstly, I think you misunderstood the EU Treaty Rights. EU Treaty Rights are not just about free movement. You can freely move to another country for a short holiday, but if you want to stay for more than 3 months, you need to show proof that you are not a burden to the state by having a job, being self-sufficient or engaging in full-time study.

Since you two are married and you are a UK citizen living in the UK, your wife should apply for a EU Family Residence card in the UK first. You two can then travel to Ireland without a visa on the basis that you have a job or you are self-sufficient.

I assume that your wife doesn't have this card, hence the reason for applying for an Irish entry visa. If you don't satisfy the requirements set out by the UK government, the chances are slim that the Irish government will approve the visa as the requirements are quite similar.

Then you mentioned that the requirements did not say you need to provide certain proofs - except they do. The INIS website http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... 20citizens clearly stated that you need to provide "proof that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen is exercising free movement rights in Ireland". Again this right is based on the fact that you have a job here or you are being self-sufficient.

Lastly, dude just use common sense. No country in the world would accept a visa application if the applicant doesn't have a job or sufficient savings, a travel plan, an intended place to stay. Whenever I need to apply for a visa to go to the UK or any other country, I would supply all of such information, and I would supply more than one proofs for each category if possible.

compacttree
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by compacttree » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:10 pm

Thank you for your advise. I want to state here that I am not living in the UK. I am currently residing in the UAE where I currently work full time. I assumed we only needed to provide documents to show that my wife was a qualifying spouse i.e. marriage certificate and photos, letter, which I provided based on stories here and other sites of visas that were granted. And proof that I will be exercising my treaty rights according to INIS website is "proof that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen is exercising free movement rights in Ireland e.g. proof that the EU/ EEA/Swiss citizen already resides in the State or a declaration or statement of confirmation that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen will be exercising those rights at the time of the applicant family member’s arrival in Ireland" there is no where it states I should have a job here or I should prove self sufficiency. am I missing something somewhere?

I admit I made mistakes e.g not writing a letter myself and providing a travel plan. Thanks once again. I will take note when applying again

compacttree
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by compacttree » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:11 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:30 pm
I don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds like this is a very poorly prepared application. I honestly can't see how you would be able to appeal that decision.

Firstly, I think you misunderstood the EU Treaty Rights. EU Treaty Rights are not just about free movement. You can freely move to another country for a short holiday, but if you want to stay for more than 3 months, you need to show proof that you are not a burden to the state by having a job, being self-sufficient or engaging in full-time study.

Since you two are married and you are a UK citizen living in the UK, your wife should apply for a EU Family Residence card in the UK first. You two can then travel to Ireland without a visa on the basis that you have a job or you are self-sufficient.

I assume that your wife doesn't have this card, hence the reason for applying for an Irish entry visa. If you don't satisfy the requirements set out by the UK government, the chances are slim that the Irish government will approve the visa as the requirements are quite similar.

Then you mentioned that the requirements did not say you need to provide certain proofs - except they do. The INIS website http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... 20citizens clearly stated that you need to provide "proof that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen is exercising free movement rights in Ireland". Again this right is based on the fact that you have a job here or you are being self-sufficient.

Lastly, dude just use common sense. No country in the world would accept a visa application if the applicant doesn't have a job or sufficient savings, a travel plan, an intended place to stay. Whenever I need to apply for a visa to go to the UK or any other country, I would supply all of such information, and I would supply more than one proofs for each category if possible.
Thank you for your advise. I want to state here that I am not living in the UK. I am currently residing in the UAE where I currently work full time. I assumed we only needed to provide documents to show that my wife was a qualifying spouse i.e. marriage certificate and photos, letter, which I provided based on stories here and other sites of visas that were granted. And proof that I will be exercising my treaty rights according to INIS website is "proof that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen is exercising free movement rights in Ireland e.g. proof that the EU/ EEA/Swiss citizen already resides in the State or a declaration or statement of confirmation that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen will be exercising those rights at the time of the applicant family member’s arrival in Ireland" there is no where it states I should have a job here or I should prove self sufficiency. am I missing something somewhere?

I admit I made mistakes e.g not writing a letter myself and providing a travel plan. Thanks once again. I will take note when applying again

compacttree
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by compacttree » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:30 pm

max307 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:06 pm
I think their biggest concern is that you will use Ireland as a back door to the UK through the Common Travel Area (CTA) given the fact that there is no passport control between Ireland and the UK.

I recommended to others in similar circumstances to not waste time and effort in an appeal. I would submit another application tackling every single reason for refusal, you have their letter so you know what exactly they had issues with.

It might involve you moving to Ireland and getting a job here, I think that's the best case scenario for the visa to be approved.
Thank you. I will apply again addressing every single reason for refusal. Moving to Ireland without my family will be very difficult, as their visas are dependent on my residence visa here in the UAE. Is there any other way of tackling this? Thanks

littlerr
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by littlerr » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:24 pm

compacttree wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:11 pm
there is no where it states I should have a job here or I should prove self sufficiency. am I missing something somewhere?
As I mentioned earlier, this is the core requirement for exercising EU Treaty Rights. You can't just say to the immigration officer that you want to "exercise EU Treaty Rights" without knowing what it is :)

The requirements are more or less the same in all EU countries. The below is from Ireland.
If you are a national of the European Economic Area (EEA) or of Switzerland, you have the right to stay in Ireland, and your family members have the right to stay here also. There are some limits to this right, however.

You can stay in Ireland for up to 3 months without restriction. If you plan to stay more than 3 months, you must either:

Be engaged in economic activity (employed or self-employed) or
Have enough resources and sickness insurance to ensure that you do not become a burden on the social services of Ireland or
Be enrolled as a student or vocational trainee or
Be a family member of a EU citizen in one of the previous categories.

max307
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by max307 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:39 pm

compacttree wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:30 pm
max307 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:06 pm
I think their biggest concern is that you will use Ireland as a back door to the UK through the Common Travel Area (CTA) given the fact that there is no passport control between Ireland and the UK.

I recommended to others in similar circumstances to not waste time and effort in an appeal. I would submit another application tackling every single reason for refusal, you have their letter so you know what exactly they had issues with.

It might involve you moving to Ireland and getting a job here, I think that's the best case scenario for the visa to be approved.
Thank you. I will apply again addressing every single reason for refusal. Moving to Ireland without my family will be very difficult, as their visas are dependent on my residence visa here in the UAE. Is there any other way of tackling this? Thanks
I don't think so to be honest, with your current immigration history (visa refusals) the visa officer won't issue you a visa by submitting a new application with just a letter of intent to exercise your EU Treaty Rights in Ireland at some stage.

Is there any chance you can get yourself "settled" in Ireland without losing your current residence in the UAE? Maybe sharing accommodation with someone in the meantime and getting a few utility bills, Irish phone number, etc. on your name?

It will be crucial for your application to prove ties to Ireland somehow.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

jul1
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by jul1 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:10 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:24 pm
compacttree wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:11 pm
there is no where it states I should have a job here or I should prove self sufficiency. am I missing something somewhere?
As I mentioned earlier, this is the core requirement for exercising EU Treaty Rights. You can't just say to the immigration officer that you want to "exercise EU Treaty Rights" without knowing what it is :)

The requirements are more or less the same in all EU countries. The below is from Ireland.
If you are a national of the European Economic Area (EEA) or of Switzerland, you have the right to stay in Ireland, and your family members have the right to stay here also. There are some limits to this right, however.

You can stay in Ireland for up to 3 months without restriction. If you plan to stay more than 3 months, you must either:

Be engaged in economic activity (employed or self-employed) or
Have enough resources and sickness insurance to ensure that you do not become a burden on the social services of Ireland or
Be enrolled as a student or vocational trainee or
Be a family member of a EU citizen in one of the previous categories.

"As I mentioned earlier, this is the core requirement for exercising EU Treaty Rights. You can't just say to the immigration officer that you want to "exercise EU Treaty Rights" without knowing what it is :)"


Actually u can, this is how it should work, for the freedom of movement the only thing u have to prove is that u are married and travelling together, and that is it, unfortunately because of the UK, especially since the brexit vote they want to give hard time to non-eu people, cause the UK is asking Ireland to do that, Like 5-10 years ago it was easy peasy to get visa to Ireland , than UK pointed out a few times that if someone gets a visa easily to Ireland they can just easily go to UK, and they wanted Ireland to be stricter, but now what they do is just declining the right for the freedom of movement, that is not legal btw...
and especially since 2016 march the brexit vote, Irish immigration became a b**ch, even for us they cause a huge delay and frustration, and eventually i had to move to anther eu country (my home country) to get my wife in, and from than it was easy to get a visa. And there was another route i was thinking, to go the Spain based on self sufficiency just to get an article 10 card, and with that u can travel to Ireland without visa. So there is a few way around, but based on my experience choose the way where u wont have to be separated even for a short period.

jul1
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Re: Non-Eu spouse visa rejected

Post by jul1 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:22 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:30 pm
I don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds like this is a very poorly prepared application. I honestly can't see how you would be able to appeal that decision.

Firstly, I think you misunderstood the EU Treaty Rights. EU Treaty Rights are not just about free movement. You can freely move to another country for a short holiday, but if you want to stay for more than 3 months, you need to show proof that you are not a burden to the state by having a job, being self-sufficient or engaging in full-time study.

Since you two are married and you are a UK citizen living in the UK, your wife should apply for a EU Family Residence card in the UK first. You two can then travel to Ireland without a visa on the basis that you have a job or you are self-sufficient.

I assume that your wife doesn't have this card, hence the reason for applying for an Irish entry visa. If you don't satisfy the requirements set out by the UK government, the chances are slim that the Irish government will approve the visa as the requirements are quite similar.

Then you mentioned that the requirements did not say you need to provide certain proofs - except they do. The INIS website http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... 20citizens clearly stated that you need to provide "proof that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen is exercising free movement rights in Ireland". Again this right is based on the fact that you have a job here or you are being self-sufficient.

Lastly, dude just use common sense. No country in the world would accept a visa application if the applicant doesn't have a job or sufficient savings, a travel plan, an intended place to stay. Whenever I need to apply for a visa to go to the UK or any other country, I would supply all of such information, and I would supply more than one proofs for each category if possible.

INIS website says:


Supporting documentation

In order for you to establish that you are a ‘qualifying family member’

or a ‘permitted family member’ you must prove:

that there is an EU/EEA/Swiss citizen from whom you can derive rights under the Directive,
the existence of the required family relationship to that citizen including where relevant dependency or membership of the household,
that you will be accompanying or joining that citizen who is exercising free movement rights in Ireland or provide a declaration or statement of confirmation that the citizen will be exercising those rights at the time of your arrival in Ireland.



The proofs that may be required are:

proof of identity e.g. valid passports for the applicant family member and the EU citizen,
proof of family link e.g. a valid marriage or birth certificate - this is so that the visa officer can ascertain that the applicant is a family member of the EU citizen,
where relevant, proof of dependency or membership of the household,
proof that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen is exercising free movement rights in Ireland e.g. proof that the EU/ EEA/Swiss citizen already resides in the State or a declaration or statement of confirmation that the EU/EEA/Swiss citizen will be exercising those rights at the time of the applicant family member’s arrival in Ireland - this is so that the visa officer can ascertain that the applicant family member will be residing in the State together with the citizen concerned.



as u can see that there is a MUST and there is a MAY be required section, the MUST is and ID and the proof os relation, and that u are travelling together, that is it!!

Depending ur circumstances u might have to prove more things, like if u CLAIM that u are already living and working in Ireland THAN u have to prove that, but u can apply for an Irish visa based on the freedom of movement even just to visit the country for a 1 week for ex., there is no requirement that u are established already here, that is just the twist that Ireland tries to add to it, cause UK is asking for a stricter CTA, so they can maintain that, both UK and Ireland wants to keep the CTA, and their idea of achieving this is stricter decisions, which by the way are not legal, cause they are conflicting the freedom of movement rules, but they just dont care, cause no one can really do anything about it, though there is loads complaint, but the EU cannot be there in millions of cases to help u.

But if the goal is to come and settle in Ireland , there is always a way around it, cause Ireland will remain in the EU.

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