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Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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eubc
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Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by eubc » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:58 am

I am a dual EU/British citizen with full employment, my wife is EU citizen who just got the settled status through the EU settlement scheme and we want to get her citizenship through the married to BC route.

The issue is that she is a stay at home mom for a while now with our very young kids (both BC's) and she does not have CSI (comprehensive sickness insurance) - she has full voluntary NI payments up to date but that is not accepted as CSI.

The EU settlement scheme document clearly says she doesnt need CSI for the settled status, only residency and accomodates for family members of dual EU/BC citizens, but that's only for the settled status.

The AN British Citizen application form changed in December 2018 to accomodate for the EU Settlement scheme, but they haven't changed the naturalisation caseworker guidance, they still need to check 3 years lawful residence, not just residence as in the EU Settlement scheme.

The guidance is still from 2017, so it's all the old stuff, that if you or your EU family member doesn't work you need CSI - and as I am a BC now for a few years I am not exercising EU treaty rights, so I do not count as a working EU family member, so she needs CSI. Also I still read here on this forum that in some 2019 naturalisation cases CSI was requested from Home Office.

Does anyone know how this is handled in naturalisation cases, are they are now more likely to overlook this requirement for the naturalisation too, what is the official guidance, will the guidance change soon maybe its worth waiting till end of March?

Thanks

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alterhase58
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Re: Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by alterhase58 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:47 pm

As CSI is not required for settled status (unlike DCPR) then there is no requirement to prove it for AN - so far we haven't seen anyone reporting CSI issues under settled status. No every UKVI document has been updated to take account of settled status.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

cryvate
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Re: Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by cryvate » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:14 pm

Further to @alterhase58 point, and to my (limited) understanding, not having CSI in certain situations will prevent obtaining PR as you are not 'exercising treaty rights,' however it does not make the residence itself unlawful.

eubc
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Re: Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by eubc » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:56 pm

alterhase58 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:47 pm
As CSI is not required for settled status (unlike DCPR) then there is no requirement to prove it for AN - so far we haven't seen anyone reporting CSI issues under settled status.
Settled status and citizenship are two separate things, I assume separate departments etc.

EU Settlement scheme is a new thing, guidance is brand new and clearly explains everything up to the settled status and talks only about "residence".

However for citizenship the guidance clearly says that you need 3 years "lawful residence", and the naturalisation policy says that for that you need to be here under the relevant EU regulations, which means you have to exercise EU treaty rights.

I assume we havent heard about this as 1) EU settlement scheme just started for public and I think there are few people who is using the scheme 2) are married to BC so does not have to wait a year 3) ready with all documents to go for the citizenship 4) would need CSI normally 5) writes on immigrationboard.

eubc
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Re: Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by eubc » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:56 pm

I just read the whole internet about this topic, the best I have found is that an immigration lawyer says that this topic is contradictory and is not clear what happens with the waived CSI in case of naturalisation applications.

The new EU Settlement scheme gives ILR for anyone who is resident for 5 years, but that surely doesn't change the fact that if an EEA person was here 4 years ago as a self sufficient person with no CSI, that was unlawful residence according to the regulations at that time - this can go against the good character requirement.

This is in theory no different from overstaying etc. and the "unsuccessful applications" topic is full of people who has got ILR for the necessary amount of time, but got refused citizenship due to unlawfully overstaying etc. Someone also mention this issue here:
british-citizenship/unsuccessful-applic ... 3-840.html

The freshly updated booklet AN still says that "LAWFUL residence" is needed for the qualifying period, so I am confused, hence my question if anyone knows if CSI is waived for naturalisation too.

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alterhase58
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Re: Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by alterhase58 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:05 am

Under EU regulations there is free movement - not having CSI where required precludes you from gaining PR by way of exercising treaty rights but doesn't make your stay illegal. Being present in any EU country as such is not unlawful, even if you have not applied for paperwork. Clearly the actual regulations wording is more complex.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

eubc
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Re: Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by eubc » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:31 am

alterhase58 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:05 am
Under EU regulations there is free movement - not having CSI where required precludes you from gaining PR by way of exercising treaty rights but doesn't make your stay illegal. Being present in any EU country as such is not unlawful, even if you have not applied for paperwork. Clearly the actual regulations wording is more complex.
The regulation says that you are free to reside in any EU country for 3 months, then you must be a EU qualified person (=exercising treaty rights) and for that you need to have comprehensive sickness insurance.

The free movement and the qualified person document explains this very clearly:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ent-rights

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 6.0ext.pdf

Then the naturalisation caseworker guideline says they have to check lawful residence:

"People who are lawfully resident in the UK
The following people are not in breach of immigration laws:

• people with right of abode in the UK
• people with leave to enter of remain
• citizens of the Republic of Ireland who last arrived in the UK on a local journey
from the Republic of Ireland
• people who are entitled to reside in the UK without leave under EEA regulations
• crew of ships or aircraft
• people who are exempt from immigration control
• people who have disembarked at a UK port but are still in the immigration
control area or have been detained or given temporary admission

A person who is in the UK and does not meet any of the above criteria will be in breach, as defined in section 50A of the British Nationality Act."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... retion.pdf

In my understanding based on the documents above whatever happens now with the EU Settled status there has been a point in the past when self-supporting people without CSI has been in breach of immigration laws and this could theoretically be held against them for 10 years as unlawful residence/breach of immigration law?

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Re: Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by cryvate » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:19 pm

I think you are theoretically correct, the fact they do not ask for any proof about CSI shows that they will not check nor is in the casework guidance.

Also, I think if this were challenged in court the Home Office would lose. It would also cause a widespread panic and a scandal bigger than Windrush so I wouldn't worry about it. This would include many, many students that do not have CSI. This is also why I think it was not included as part of the Settled status requirement.

That was some interesting reading, thanks for the links.

eubc
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Re: Married to BC, has EU settled status, no CSI

Post by eubc » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:05 pm

Why would it cause a scandal, everyone got ILR even the ones who couldn't get it so far due to lack of CSI, so the government secured the future of all EU citizens, they are free to stay, getting citizenship is unfortunately not a right.

My problem here is the lack of guidance. The confirmation email says go for the citizenship right now if you are married to a BC, but in case of the caseworker being picky - and I assume they will be picky as my wife is at home with the kids for most of her qualifying period - they can reject the application or in an extreme case they can even say it is breach of immigration rules and stop her applying again for many years.

In the other hand now the mood is that UK wants the EU citizens and I assume they do not want their brand new EU Settlement scheme to backfire in any way, so they should be prepared for these applicants like my wife, masses of unhappy EU citizens losing 1330 each after getting burned AGAIN with lack of CSI would look very bad.

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