National Insurance Number

Joseph wrote:most people don't even know what their UTR is, so the NINO is the number more commonly used. I find it rather strange and amusing that two taxpayer account numbers are used in the UK, unlike other countries I have lived in.

The US has two applicable personal tax numbers - the Social Security Number and the Individual Taxpayer Identification Number(ITIN). It is possible for someone to have both numbers although it is usually the ITIN then SSN with relevant authorisation upon meeting eligibilty grounds e.g change of immigrant status.

Basis wrote :-

However, there is clearly lack of expert information. there is certainly a provision in the revenue laws that allows the companies to either choose PAYE scheme (with NINO, P60 etc) or scheme to pay these taxes / NI at company level (with NINO, P60 to individuals).

OK, I'm a Tax Consultant. I just don't recognise the choice that you mention. An employer is required to operate a PAYE scheme, and that has implications for both the employer and also all the employees.

Any tax and national insurance deducted from the pay of employees needs to be handed over to the Inland Revenue, together with the employer's national insurance contributions.

So Basis, please explain the choice you mention.

John wrote:Basis wrote :-

However, there is clearly lack of expert information. there is certainly a provision in the revenue laws that allows the companies to either choose PAYE scheme (with NINO, P60 etc) or scheme to pay these taxes / NI at company level (with NINO, P60 to individuals).

OK, I'm a Tax Consultant. I just don't recognise the choice that you mention. An employer is required to operate a PAYE scheme, and that has implications for both the employer and also all the employees.

Any tax and national insurance deducted from the pay of employees needs to be handed over to the Inland Revenue, together with the employer's national insurance contributions.

So Basis, please explain the choice you mention.

My wife is an expatriate employee and her pay slip shows no national insurance number or tax deducted. However, I know that her employer is paying tax on her behalf and remitting it to the revenue.Also, since she is an expat employee, her employer is not making any NI contributions.
Just before we applied for naturalisation, we asked the revenue for a letter stating that she has been paying taxes. The letter lists the past five years, during three of which the employer has paid tax on her behalf but no NICO (the three years when she was an expat).
In fact, the DWP office refused to give her an NINO initially because her payslip has NI category "X"- it took lots of pleading to get an NINO so that she could apply for naturalisation.
I suspect this is what Basis is referring.

davidm, there is nothing wrong with the employer and employee agreeing a net pay arrangement. For example, the arrangement being that £x net per month is paid. However, in the background, someone needs to do the necessary calculations and calculate the gross equivalent of the net pay, and then pay over the correct amounts to the Inland Revenue.

As regards NI, you say "since she is an expat employee, her employer is not making any NI contributions.". OK there are special rules for NI for those arriving in the UK, dependent upon whether the person is from the EEA, from a country with a reciprocal arrangement with the UK, or from any other country. Quite a complex matter. Much more information provided at :-

Special Cases:Contents

-: or rather at the links off that page.

But your wife has been working in the UK? For how long? Or outside the UK? Or indeed both?

Kayalami

The ITIN is for people who are not eligible to work in the US, not people on work visas or citizens. The same people who would not be eligible for a NINO here. The ITIN is the same format as a Social Security Number except that it starts with 9.

My point was that a US citizen (myself included) or a permanent resident would never need a ITIN in the US while a British citizen or other eligible worker would both get a NINO and a UTR in the UK.

Regards

Joseph

John wrote:davidm, there is nothing wrong with the employer and employee agreeing a net pay arrangement. For example, the arrangement being that £x net per month is paid. However, in the background, someone needs to do the necessary calculations and calculate the gross equivalent of the net pay, and then pay over the correct amounts to the Inland Revenue.

As regards NI, you say "since she is an expat employee, her employer is not making any NI contributions.". OK there are special rules for NI for those arriving in the UK, dependent upon whether the person is from the EEA, from a country with a reciprocal arrangement with the UK, or from any other country. Quite a complex matter. Much more information provided at :-

Special Cases:Contents

-: or rather at the links off that page.

But your wife has been working in the UK? For how long? Or outside the UK? Or indeed both?

John,
My wife joined the New York office of the company she is working for in 2000. She was transferred to the UK the same year as an expat and has been paid a UK salary. The salary is paid to her UK bank account and is linked to her US salary to make her "tax neutral" vis-a-vis US and UK. The employer pays her tax every year and sends her a tax return (where she has to add her other UK income in addition to salary). There is no NICO from the employer. She has been working the UK ever since (and was a UK work permit holder for 2 years before she changed her jobs and had a 4 month break between work permits when she was in the US).

DavidM

I think you are referring to a special Social Security tax treaty between the US and UK which avoids double payment of social security taxes. Since your wife was hired in the US by the company, she is exempt from National Insurance Contributions. However, I bet she or the company pays US Social Security and Medicare taxes, right?

Joseph

Joseph wrote:DavidM

I think you are referring to a special Social Security tax treaty between the US and UK which avoids double payment of social security taxes. Since your wife was hired in the US by the company, she is exempt from National Insurance Contributions. However, I bet she or the company pays US Social Security and Medicare taxes, right?

Joseph

Joseph,
have no clue- as far as I know her cost is borne by the US branch of the company, even though she is paid in the UK. She does not pay any US taxes. She is not a US citizen, but a Canadian, so does not have file for taxes in the US.
David

Ok that explains it. Canadians wouldn't have to pay US taxes unless they hold a green card.
Joseph

DavidM wrote:

---------------------------------------------------
My wife is an expatriate employee and her pay slip shows no national insurance number or tax deducted. However, I know that her employer is paying tax on her behalf and remitting it to the revenue.Also, since she is an expat employee, her employer is not making any NI contributions.
Just before we applied for naturalisation, we asked the revenue for a letter stating that she has been paying taxes. The letter lists the past five years, during three of which the employer has paid tax on her behalf but no NICO (the three years when she was an expat).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

DavidM - Could you please tell us how did you ask revenue for the letter. Whom did you contact, how and what reference / ID number did you provide them. How did in the absence of NINO they find such details.

[quote="basis"]DavidM wrote:

---------------------------------------------------
My wife is an expatriate employee and her pay slip shows no national insurance number or tax deducted. However, I know that her employer is paying tax on her behalf and remitting it to the revenue.Also, since she is an expat employee, her employer is not making any NI contributions.
Just before we applied for naturalisation, we asked the revenue for a letter stating that she has been paying taxes. The letter lists the past five years, during three of which the employer has paid tax on her behalf but no NICO (the three years when she was an expat).

----------------------------------------------------------------------[/quote]

DavidM - Could you please tell us how did you ask revenue for the letter. Whom did you contact, how and what reference / ID number did you provide them. How did in the absence of NINO they find such details.

DavidM - Could you please tell us how did you ask revenue for the letter. Whom did you contact, how and what reference / ID number did you provide them. How did in the absence of NINO they find such details.[/quote]
There is a department of Inland Revenue which gives such letters. You can get the address by calling the Inland Revenue 0845 helpline (I have lost it because it was almost 8 months ago). If you write to them and give your name and address and DoB, they will give you a letter. They keep track of all payments made by any person, whether they have an NINO or not. The letter won't tell you how much you have paid, but will say yes/no to Tax and NIC for each year of your stay in the UK on work permit. In my wife's case, she had yes for tax payments for all the years. For NICs, yes for 2 years and no for 3 years.