Cnditional Fixed term agreement

Hello gurus please can anyone help me out.

My sister got offered a permanent job.
But her employer avised given that she is on a Tier 4 visa , they can give her a conditional fixed term contract to start the Job, and then she can apply for a TIER 2 visa before the job is made permanent. If she succeed with the TIER 2, the job will automatically become permanent.

Can she start on the conditional fixed term while she applies for the Tier 2?
I understand Tier 4 holders can not fill in a permanent position.

Please your input will be much appreciated.

As long as you're not exceeding the limited hours in your Tier 4.

Only if your Tier 2 is successful, you'll be allowed to work full time.

Thank you for your reply.
Her studies has ended.
The job is permanent but offered on a fixed term based on Tier 4 visa with a condition it will automatically become permanent if she gets a Tier 2 visa.

will she be in breach of immigration rule?

Thank you for your reply.
Her studies has ended.
The job is permanent but offered on a fixed term based on Tier 4 visa with a condition it will automatically become permanent if she gets a Tier 2 visa.

will she be in breach of immigration rule?

Coache wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:58 pm

will she be in breach of immigration rule?

Only if you breach your Tier 4 visa conditions. I assume you're aware of it thoroughly.


From https://www.internationalstudents.cam.a ... ier-4-visa

Students on Tier 4 visas can do most kinds of work, but you must not:
be self-employed
engage in business activity
take a permanent full-time job
be employed as a professional sportsperson including as a sports coach
be employed as an entertainer
work as a doctor or dentist in training, unless you are on the foundation programme.

Thanks .

I will advise she starts the position on fixed term basis. When her Tier 2 application is made she can then convert to permanent position.

Coache wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:58 pm

The job is permanent but offered on a fixed term based on Tier 4 visa with a condition it will automatically become permanent if she gets a Tier 2 visa.

That is a contradiction in terms. It sounds like it is a temporary job on paper at the moment, specifically because the employer knows that she cannot take a permanent full-time job.

It doesn't sound very ethical, but I think it is quite common for employers to play fast and loose with temporary / permanent jobs in this way in order to get round an employee's work conditions.

With respect, I would advise you stay away from giving her amateur immigration advice and services. If your sister has concerns about the matter, she can discuss them with the HR at her employer, and if she is very concerned she can get immigration legal advice.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:14 am

Coache wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:58 pm

The job is permanent but offered on a fixed term based on Tier 4 visa with a condition it will automatically become permanent if she gets a Tier 2 visa.

That is a contradiction in terms. It sounds like it is a temporary job on paper at the moment, specifically because the employer knows that she cannot take a permanent full-time job.

It doesn't sound very ethical, but I think it is quite common for employers to play fast and loose with temporary / permanent jobs in this way in order to get round an employee's work conditions.

With respect, I would advise you stay away from giving her amateur immigration advice and services. If your sister has concerns about the matter, she can discuss them with the HR at her employer, and if she is very concerned she can get immigration legal advice.

That is not a contradiction. If you hold a Tier4 visa and got a permanent job which requires a switch to tier 2 visa. The job doesn't need resident labour market testing. Also they job she got is on the shortage list. Meaning the employer doesn't necessarily need to advertise it.
Therefore the employer can give out the job based on the student current condition of stay in the UK which is a fixed termporary term. The job can also be offered as permanent anytime the student gets a valid Tier 2. There is no obligation to advertise a job on a shortage list as stated in the guidance. The job may therefore continue based on agreed terms of contract.
Why They made it fixed term was so that she is aware if she doesn't get a Tier 2 and her Tier 4 expire's she doesn't have right to as a permanent staff.

You may be conflating a couple of separate issues, so to clarify:

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 am

If you hold a Tier4 visa and got a permanent job which requires a switch to tier 2 visa. The job doesn't need resident labour market testing. Also they job she got is on the shortage list. Meaning the employer doesn't necessarily need to advertise it.

Yes, except it is not relevant that it is a shortage occupation. Switching from Tier 4 to Tier 2 in the UK for any eligible job does not require the RLMT test.

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 am

Therefore the employer can give out the job based on the student current condition of stay in the UK which is a fixed termporary term. The job can also be offered as permanent anytime the student gets a valid Tier 2.

Not quite. As we know, before they make the Tier 2 application, a Tier 4 migrant cannot start a permanent full-time job, as we know and as advised above. But as soon as a Tier 4 visa holder has made a Tier 2 application, they can start their permanent full-time Tier 2 job. Neither they nor the employer need to wait until the outcome of the application, and the employer does not need to make it a temporary or fixed-term job. This is built in to the Tier 4 work rules, at paragraph 245ZW(c)(iii)(7) of the immigration rules:

(iii) no employment except
...
(7) until such time as a decision is received from the Home Office on an application which is supported by a Certificate of Sponsorship assigned by a licensed Tier 2 Sponsor ... and while the applicant has extant leave ... employment with the Tier 2 Sponsor, in the role for which they assigned the Certificate of Sponsorship to the Tier 4 migrant,

If someone who has made the Tier 2 application is only given a temporary or fixed-term or conditional contract, that is the employer's choice to do that for their own reasons, not a requirement of the immigration rules. Obviously in the unlikely even that the Tier 2 application was refused, the employee would need to stop work.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:30 am

You may be conflating a couple of separate issues, so to clarify:

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 am

If you hold a Tier4 visa and got a permanent job which requires a switch to tier 2 visa. The job doesn't need resident labour market testing. Also they job she got is on the shortage list. Meaning the employer doesn't necessarily need to advertise it.

Yes, except it is not relevant that it is a shortage occupation. Switching from Tier 4 to Tier 2 in the UK for any eligible job does not require the RLMT test.

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 am

Therefore the employer can give out the job based on the student current condition of stay in the UK which is a fixed termporary term. The job can also be offered as permanent anytime the student gets a valid Tier 2.

Not quite. As we know, before they make the Tier 2 application, a Tier 4 migrant cannot start a permanent full-time job, as we know and as advised above. But as soon as a Tier 4 visa holder has made a Tier 2 application, they can start their permanent full-time Tier 2 job. Neither they nor the employer need to wait until the outcome of the application, and the employer does not need to make it a temporary or fixed-term job. This is built in to the Tier 4 work rules, at paragraph 245ZW(c)(iii)(7) of the immigration rules:

(iii) no employment except
...
(7) until such time as a decision is received from the Home Office on an application which is supported by a Certificate of Sponsorship assigned by a licensed Tier 2 Sponsor ... and while the applicant has extant leave ... employment with the Tier 2 Sponsor, in the role for which they assigned the Certificate of Sponsorship to the Tier 4 migrant,

If someone who has made the Tier 2 application is only given a temporary or fixed-term or conditional contract, that is the employer's choice to do that for their own reasons, not a requirement of the immigration rules. Obviously in the unlikely even that the Tier 2 application was refused, the employee would need to stop work.

Thank you again.

This is a big NHS with numerous vacancies and so consistently you get transitions depending on your performances. They can take anyone on a short term who have right to work in the UK. And can also offer a permanent employment to continue in same rol if it is on a shortage list. Meaning you will continue in your role even after you succeed in getting a new visa especially where there is no requirement to advertise or do RLMT . The jobs affected are those on the shortage list.
Students having 4 months left on their visa can work full time on a fixed temporary role during which the employer can still proceed to make such jobs permanent if their Visa condition changes to Tier 2.
The guidance is specific you can't start a permanent position but it did not forbid student to start such job on a fixed term temporary pending when their visa expires.

Does your concern mean the student should not work temporary because it has a clause it can be made permanent if certain conditions are met in future? or you want the first and second job offer to be advertised for a job on a shortage list which shouldn't be the case ? Or you want the student to reject starting work on a temporary role in the same line of profession ?

If such job doesn't need an advert in the case of shortage list all you need is to raise a COS and have a legal documents signed to state the status of the employement. You can raise the COS at anytime for a job on a shortage list if it's unrestricted expecially in the case of a Student filling a job on the Shortage.


Fixed terms allows the employer to dismiss you once your fixed term ends which is difficult if the job was offered as a permanent job.

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:21 pm

Does your concern mean the student should not work temporary because it has a clause it can be made permanent if certain conditions are met in future?

Maybe. As the employee, I would probably have a concern that the employer is in effect making a permanent job look temporary to get round the Tier 4 work rules before I have applied for Tier 2. If both the employee and the employer are happy with that, fine.

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:21 pm

or you want the first and second job offer to be advertised for a job on a shortage list which shouldn't be the case ?

As advised, neither the shortage list nor the RLMT (which are separate things) are ever relevant to a Tier 4-to-Tier 2 switch.

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:21 pm

Or you want the student to reject starting work on a temporary role in the same line of profession ?

No, I want employers to not force employees who have made a Tier 2 application onto a temporary contract for spurious "immigration reasons" when the immigration rules allow it to be permanent anyway.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:31 pm

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:21 pm

Does your concern mean the student should not work temporary because it has a clause it can be made permanent if certain conditions are met in future?

Maybe. As the employee, I would probably have a concern that the employer is in effect making a permanent job look temporary to get round the Tier 4 work rules before I have applied for Tier 2. If both the employee and the employer are happy with that, fine.

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:21 pm

or you want the first and second job offer to be advertised for a job on a shortage list which shouldn't be the case ?

As advised, neither the shortage list nor the RLMT (which are separate things) are ever relevant to a Tier 4-to-Tier 2 switch.

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:21 pm

Or you want the student to reject starting work on a temporary role in the same line of profession ?

No, I want employers to not force employees who have made a Tier 2 application onto a temporary contract for spurious "immigration reasons" when the immigration rules allow it to be permanent anyway.

This is not a force or getting around the policy. The employer is in fact offering skilled students with professional qualifications flexible contract terms for fixed terms and will not refuse taking you on a fixed term because you are on Tier 4.
Why should a student sit back at home when you can do job on a fixed term basis when you have right to work and earn a living ? People work for big firms and co for a complete 4 months after studies during which the job they started were lucky to be offered as a permanent role.

You can continue in your role as a permanent position if such Visa is approved with a continuity contract agreement if an employer have numerous vacancies and have free COS to issue.

Let me also state that it is not compulsory to start work immediately your studies ends. If you decide u dont want a fixed term contarct you can wait, but they can also fill in the post from outside the UK as it's on a shortage.

All offers are conditional till visas are secured.

The legal implications is at the time you start a work as a student do not start on a permanent contract. Whatsoever the contract is must be temporary or fixed term with an end date in line with your Tier 4 visa. At anytime the employer wishes the job can continue as permanent you should have a Tier 2 visa or have made an application.

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:15 pm

This is not a force or getting around the policy. The employer is in fact offering skilled students with professional qualifications flexible contract terms for fixed terms and will not refuse taking you on a fixed term because you are on Tier 4.
Why should a student sit back at home when you can do job on a fixed term basis when you have right to work and earn a living ? People work for big firms and co for a complete 4 months after studies during which the job they started were lucky to be offered as a permanent role.

I really think we are at cross-purposes.

Taking a fixed-term contract as a Tier 4 visa holder, with or without a pending Tier 2 application, is totally fine and normal. For someone who hasn't yet made their Tier 2 application, that's all they can do anyway.

What I am saying is that it is a pity that employers put people (including Tier 4 migrants with a pending Tier 2 application) onto such contracts when they do not need to.

Just to put the discussion to bed. I have just paid and consulted an immigration lawyer on this topic and it may help people for future refrences.

The feedback was: so long as such conditions are signed and agreed by both parties and that the start date as a Tier 4 was stated as conditional fixed term. Legally it is not permanent.
He said Employer are allowed to make such jobs permanent if the requirements are met in future and if they so have the fund to pay the required salary.
He also said some jobs are promotional based on your performance. You can be given a job on a temporary or fixed term, but because of how good you are it can come with a clause that such job can become permanent if you archieve certain conditions.
There is no argument in the eye of law that a fixed term is permanent and whatsoever way the employer uses to select you is based on their recruitment policy. The issue of permenent as a tier 4 is because the visa has an end date and unless a step is made to change the visa status, students should start on fixed term or temporary basis and can progress to permanent role if conditions changes

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:24 pm

Coache wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:15 pm

This is not a force or getting around the policy. The employer is in fact offering skilled students with professional qualifications flexible contract terms for fixed terms and will not refuse taking you on a fixed term because you are on Tier 4.
Why should a student sit back at home when you can do job on a fixed term basis when you have right to work and earn a living ? People work for big firms and co for a complete 4 months after studies during which the job they started were lucky to be offered as a permanent role.

I really think we are at cross-purposes.

Taking a fixed-term contract as a Tier 4 visa holder, with or without a pending Tier 2 application, is totally fine and normal. For someone who hasn't yet made their Tier 2 application, that's all they can do anyway.

What I am saying is that it is a pity that employers put people (including Tier 4 migrants with a pending Tier 2 application) onto such contracts when they do not need to.

Thanks for your help and I appreciate as this will help so many people in such condition. please read the feedback from an immigration consultant. I posted above.
My sister wanted to start her job on a fixed term basis due to financial reasons and so the only way is to use her curtent right to work and start on a fixed term. Luckily her employer had such flexible contracts to accommodate her for 4 months and she can still retain the job whole she makes the application for a Tier 2. Like I said the HR was specific it could only work because it's on shortage and so they will not necessarily need to advertise again for the COS to be raised.