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Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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dunks1887
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by dunks1887 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:12 am

zepman wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:27 am
Obie wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:20 am
I remember that in the year leading up to my application, I was particular about not travelling abroad
That's all well and good, but for many of us being 'particular' about traveling abroad would involve us needing to quit our jobs or go on career leave for that year. I still argue that less than 10% can afford to be so particular for either work or personal reasons, holidays aside.

niccim
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by niccim » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:19 am

Meanwhile, the Minister is doing PR rounds for xxxxxx. Is anyone else frustrated with this case?

His visa was denied because he has drug convictions in Ireland. He stayed anyway and worked illegally as a house painter. He always had the opportunity to live a safe life in Ireland with a guaranteed visa for his family. Instead, he felt he was entitled to stay in the USA.

How many South Americans have drug convictions at home, then work illegally in manual labour in the US? We aren't seeing many stories about them in the news. Yet there is a massive outpouring of sympathy for this guy. And, of course, tens of thousands of us sit and wait for answers from the minister for years.

nojoyfrominis
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by nojoyfrominis » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:23 am

You are an immigrant if coming from a third world country but an expat if from a first world country

Lorenna
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Lorenna » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:36 am

I have written to both of my TD's this afternoon about this. I have already had a reply from one saying they had a huge series of urgent queries with the minister around this and will get back to me once they hear more.

Issagenius
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Issagenius » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:50 am

You mind sending a draft copy of email you send to your TD, need to email my TD.

Think everyone should do this and apply pressure to them

White_Pearl
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by White_Pearl » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:56 am

dunks1887 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:14 am
[quote=water_tank1 post_id=<a href="tel:1804254">1804254</a> time=<a href="tel:1563438995">1563438995</a> user_id=174067]

Does the new ruling specify which basis the application is on or is it covering all applications?

It covers all applications made based on residency, whether that's via marriage or 5 years on a work permit, etc. I would say, as the ruling currently stands, 99% of applications for naturalisation based on residency are now eligible for refusal, except for the odd case of the person who hasn't stepped one foot out of Ireland in the past calendar year(e.g.- the extremely old and possibly those with very young children).
[/quote]

And what about application for eu-nationals? Our passports doesn’t get stamped at all while travelling in EU and some other non eu countries when we travel on our eu-id card....?

nojoyfrominis
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by nojoyfrominis » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:15 pm

Our passports don’t get stamped but they have all the info on airline database when you check in to flights

Captainf
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Captainf » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:19 pm


takeabow
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by takeabow » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:51 pm

My local TD has confirmed that this cannot be dealt with legislatively until the 17 September, but it is the hope that the issue can be dealt with in a single sitting at that time. So even if it is dealt with “pretty quickly once the Dail resumes” we are looking at end Sep earliest before any clarity. In the meantime I guess our hopes hinge on an immediate appeal in the courts, which reaffirms that the ministers 6 week discretion is appropriate.

takeabow
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by takeabow » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:54 pm

nojoyfrominis wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:15 pm
Our passports don’t get stamped but they have all the info on airline database when you check in to flights
Does that include access to domestic UK airline databases between Belfast and a mainland UK airport. You don’t need a passport for them.

littlerr
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by littlerr » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:24 pm

takeabow wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:51 pm
My local TD has confirmed that this cannot be dealt with legislatively until the 17 September, but it is the hope that the issue can be dealt with in a single sitting at that time. So even if it is dealt with “pretty quickly once the Dail resumes” we are looking at end Sep earliest before any clarity. In the meantime I guess our hopes hinge on an immediate appeal in the courts, which reaffirms that the ministers 6 week discretion is appropriate.
An emergency sitting can happen at any day - they have done the same a few years ago when the high court basically said the possession of some lethal drugs were legal. Since a ceremony has been planned for September, they would have to come up with some solutions now.

Oireachtas summer holiday starts from 1 August so there’s still time.

Nadzer
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Nadzer » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:14 pm

Hi all,

i know this never really works but a petition was launched to reverse the ruling. The least it will do is show how many people care.

You can sign here:
https://t.co/Q7T6fjO76H

South African spouse
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by South African spouse » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:06 pm

Does this mean that all applications will have to be reviewed and the people who have left the country will be delayed?

Shehz
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Shehz » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:29 pm

Hi guys . My wife applied for her citizenship in March 2019 and received her second stage letter early July 2019 .in relation to the current high court scenario over period of absences is there something that she still needs to be worry about as my wife has not left Dublin since feb 2016( young kids ) so that puts her in the clear . Is there a need to contact citizenship confirming her status in this matter ? . Many thanks for your help

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Statusquo73 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm

So in this case if our applications will be declined then they have to cancel and take back all citizenships that were granbted ''wrongly''

Honestly if that is going to happend to me I will apply to European Court or I will ask all granted citizens to be reviewed.

Carensza
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Carensza » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:03 pm

From the INIS citizenship homepage today:


Notice 1 | Statement from Minister Flanagan on High Court Citizenship judgment
18 July 2019

Speaking from Helsinki, where he is attending a meeting of EU Home Affairs Ministers, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Charlie Flanagan TD, has addressed the recent High Court judgment on citizenship, saying:

"I know that the ruling from the High Court has caused concern and may have been unsettling for people in the Citizenship process. I want to reassure people that my officials are carefully studying the ruling in consultation with the Attorney General’s Office. This issue is being dealt with as an urgent priority and I will take any necessary action to resolve it.”

littlerr
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by littlerr » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:04 pm

Statusquo73 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm
So in this case if our applications will be declined then they have to cancel and take back all citizenships that were granbted ''wrongly''

Honestly if that is going to happend to me I will apply to European Court or I will ask all granted citizens to be reviewed.
They cannot "take back" any approved citizenship applications. The Citizenship Act explicitly defined that there are only a handful number of reasons that they can revoke a naturalisation application, including knowingly lying in the application and war crime etc. They cannot revoke an application based on the fact that the Minister interpreted the legislation incorrectly.

Also take a break. Nobody is going to decline any application. It's just either a legal battle or a new legislation to be introduced. Either way, it will cause some delays but it will stop just there.

Obie
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Obie » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:06 pm

Well I will put it in a different way. If the law does not permit the minister to issue a certificate, then any certificate issued is ultra vires.

The minister just like any other citizen or alien in the state, are bound and subject to the law.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by smart_man » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:47 am

Statusquo73 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm
So in this case if our applications will be declined then they have to cancel and take back all citizenships that were granbted ''wrongly''

Honestly if that is going to happend to me I will apply to European Court or I will ask all granted citizens to be reviewed.
Haha, from 1950s till today? What are you, a 5 year old?

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by smart_man » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:49 am

Obie wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:06 pm
Well I will put it in a different way. If the law does not permit the minister to issue a certificate, then any certificate issued is ultra vires.

The minister just like any other citizen or alien in the state, are bound and subject to the law.
Few countries, especially in Africa don't allow dual citizenship. Many of the naturalised citizens from there only hold an Irish passport. Revoking their citizenship for any reason will deem them stateless and that is against the UN convention.

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zepman
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by zepman » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:00 am

dunks1887 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:12 am
zepman wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:27 am
Obie wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:20 am
I remember that in the year leading up to my application, I was particular about not travelling abroad
That's all well and good, but for many of us being 'particular' about traveling abroad would involve us needing to quit our jobs or go on career leave for that year. I still argue that less than 10% can afford to be so particular for either work or personal reasons, holidays aside.
I fully agree about those whose work involves travel, or those who have to travel for family emergencies etc. I personally think that in those cases, more than 6 weeks should be allowed. The point of my post was that those who don't need to travel abroad can indeed afford to be particular, and there are a lot of people like that.

Is there a source for that number - 10%?

Statusquo73
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Statusquo73 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:37 pm

smart_man wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:47 am
Statusquo73 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm
So in this case if our applications will be declined then they have to cancel and take back all citizenships that were granbted ''wrongly''

Honestly if that is going to happend to me I will apply to European Court or I will ask all granted citizens to be reviewed.
Haha, from 1950s till today? What are you, a 5 year old?
Probably you are angry because you are scared to lose your citizenship?
All newspaper are talking about granted citizenship to be illegitimate in this case. Even well-known solicitors say same thing. This decision put in danger all those citizenships were granted where the person was outside of the Ireland 1 day or more.

This is the fact. ANd they can revoke if there is a wrong decision. Whether you accept or not.

littlerr
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by littlerr » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:06 pm

Statusquo73 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:37 pm
smart_man wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:47 am
Statusquo73 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm
So in this case if our applications will be declined then they have to cancel and take back all citizenships that were granbted ''wrongly''

Honestly if that is going to happend to me I will apply to European Court or I will ask all granted citizens to be reviewed.
Haha, from 1950s till today? What are you, a 5 year old?
Probably you are angry because you are scared to lose your citizenship?
All newspaper are talking about granted citizenship to be illegitimate in this case. Even well-known solicitors say same thing. This decision put in danger all those citizenships were granted where the person was outside of the Ireland 1 day or more.

This is the fact. ANd they can revoke if there is a wrong decision. Whether you accept or not.
And where did you find this ‘fact’ and where is the legal basis for that? Have you even read Section 19 of the Citizenship Act 1956? Chill down. Nobody is going to reject your application or revoke anybody else’s. A delay is inevitable but it’s just a delay.

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Obie » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:39 pm

smart_man wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:49 am
Obie wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:06 pm
Well I will put it in a different way. If the law does not permit the minister to issue a certificate, then any certificate issued is ultra vires.

The minister just like any other citizen or alien in the state, are bound and subject to the law.
Few countries, especially in Africa don't allow dual citizenship. Many of the naturalised citizens from there only hold an Irish passport. Revoking their citizenship for any reason will deem them stateless and that is against the UN convention.
Yes I accept that certain issues may arise, which may offend international order or Ireland's international obligations, but the fact remains that such rules indeed exist.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by VMarshal » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:40 pm

The CONTINUOUS residence law applies to both Non-EU citizens and Spouse of EU citizen.
In both section 15 and 15 A (Naturalisation of spouses of Irish citizens), one year Continuos residence is specified, irrespective of what form 8 says only for Non EU citizens
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 3553403137

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