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Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by VMarshal » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:08 am

Notice | Updated statement from INIS on the recent judgment in the High Court citizenship case
29 July 2019

The Department is continuing to work on finding solutions to the situation as quickly as possible. The best interests of applicants and future applicants are foremost in our considerations.

On Thursday 25 July 2019, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Charlie Flanagan obtained Cabinet approval for a proposed Bill, which seeks to resolve the issue that has arisen in the recent High Court judgment.

The Minister’s intention is to work with the Office of the Attorney General and instruct the Office of Parliamentary Counsel to have a bill drafted on an urgent basis and before the Houses of the Oireachtas for consideration in mid-September as soon as the recess ends.

It is intended that the Citizenship Ceremony scheduled to take place at the end of September will still go ahead and planning is taking place on that basis.

In respect of the judgment itself, yesterday (25 July 2019), a date was set for an appeal to be heard by the Court of Appeal. Our advice for people who are planning to apply for citizenship is to continue to collect all the necessary proofs that support your application and to submit a comprehensive application form. Once a solution is in place, if any additional information is required, you will be contacted as part of the processing of your application.

We do not believe that this ruling has consequences for anyone who has already obtained citizenship under the Act.

We ask for your continued patience while we put in place a solution as an urgent priority. Further updates will be posted on this website when available. If you would like to speak to us about your case, you can contact us as follows


http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/up ... ouncements

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by aneelrahim » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:45 pm

Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019

Parliamentary Questions related to court ruling
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-07-23/938/#pq_938

Question:

938. Deputy Jack Chambers asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if a recent court ruling will be clarified in the context of applications for naturalisation (details supplied); the impact of the ruling on ongoing applications; its impact on completed applications in cases in which naturalisation was granted; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34169/19]

Answer:

I propose to take Questions Nos. 917, 918, 928, 930, 937 and 938 together.

I am aware that the recent judgment of the High Court relating to continuous residency under Section 15(1)(c) of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956 (as amended) has given cause for concern. The matter remains before the courts and is therefore sub-judice.

I do however, want to assure the Deputies that I am taking all appropriate steps to remedy the situation as quickly as possible. Various options to resolve the matter are under active consideration and detailed consideration of these options is underway by officials of my Department in consultation with the Attorney General's Office. The aim is to put in place a practical system that recognises that temporary absences from the State are allowed when determining the residence requirements for citizenship.

The Citizenship Division of my Department is continuing to receive and process applications. Planning for the next Citizenship Ceremony in September is also underway. The advice for people who are planning to apply for citizenship is to continue to collect all the necessary proofs that support the application and to submit a comprehensive application form. Once a solution is in place, if any additional information is required further contact will be made with the applicant.

Further updates will be posted on the website of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) when available.

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Obie » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:49 pm

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/up ... ouncements

Further update from the department.

Appears that the minister is proceeding on the basis that the decision from the Court is accurate.
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by danielmensah » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:54 am

My question is what about those of us who are not affected by the one year continuous or unbroken stay in Ireland?
I mean the last one year before I made my application, I didn't travel out of the country for almost 2 years before submitting my application in Dec 2017. Does this mean I wont get approval as well?
Is the ruling applicable to already submitted application that is waiting for Minister's approval?
Is already submitted applications are affected?
Anyone with an update on this. I am just confused and frustrated. I have submitted my application since Dec. 2017 and now getting this BAD news.
Thanks. :(

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by nojoyfrominis » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:12 am

Relax guys. There is nothing to worry about. Even the minister has issued urgent statements and the new bill is being prepared with help from attorney general. They are still going ahead with sept ceremony as per their last update.

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by smart_man » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:36 pm

danielmensah wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:54 am
My question is what about those of us who are not affected by the one year continuous or unbroken stay in Ireland?
I mean the last one year before I made my application, I didn't travel out of the country for almost 2 years before submitting my application in Dec 2017. Does this mean I wont get approval as well?
Is the ruling applicable to already submitted application that is waiting for Minister's approval?
Is already submitted applications are affected?
Anyone with an update on this. I am just confused and frustrated. I have submitted my application since Dec. 2017 and now getting this BAD news.
Thanks. :(
If your residence is 'unbroken' (as in the court rule), nothing changes for you- whether there is a new bill being prepared or not!

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by aneelrahim » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:01 pm

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/n ... 56219.html

Irish News Friday 2 August 2019

New law planned to deal with fallout from judge's ruling that leaving country for just a day could derail citizenship bid

The Government plans to hurry through new legislation following a controversial High Court ruling which means applicants for citizenship must have “unbroken” residence here for a year before they apply.

The ruling earlier this month by Mr Justice Max Barrett was greeted with shock by the immigrant and legal communities as it suggests that even a single day’s absence would scupper an application.

It is seen as effectively acting as a barrier to prospective applicants travelling outside of Ireland for holidays or work.

Up until the ruling, the Department of Justice exercised discretion by allowed applicants to be absent for up to six weeks, even though the legislation technically states they must be continuously present in Ireland for a year before submitting an application.

Mr Justice Barrett found this policy went beyond what was legally permissible under the act.

In a statement, the department said Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan had secured Cabinet approval for a bill which would seek to resolve the issues that arose in the High Court judgment.

“The minister’s intention is to work with the Office of the Attorney General and instruct the Office of Parliamentary Counsel to have a bill drafted on an urgent basis and before the Houses of the Oireachtas for consideration in mid-September as soon as the recess ends,” it said.

The department advised people who are planning to apply for citizenship to continue to collect all the necessary proofs that support their application and to submit a comprehensive application form.

The ruling is being appealed by UCD senior research fellow Roderick Jones. The Australian national brought the case after being refused Irish citizenship after being outside the country for 100 days in the year before his application.

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by lilirere » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:05 pm

Out of curiosity, has anyone out there with a pending citizenship application that would be (negatively) impacted by this court ruling:

1) received an invitation for the September ceremony?

2) received any updates by mail (stage 2 letter, request for more documents, etc.) from INIS in the weeks since the ruling to suggest that their application is still being processed?

3) tried contacting INIS to discuss their case (as they mention you can in the 29 July update posted here: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/ci ... ip-updates)?

4) been in contact with a TD about their case?

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by iamok » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:10 am

I haven't heard of any new approvals recently or seen any posts on this forum for approvals as well.

We've emailed them 2 times since July and gotten no reply. They rarely answer the phone so we have not been lucky there as well.

In summary, we have no update!

It would be interesting to see what happens with the September ceremony with less than 6 weeks to go. They might be sending approvals/invitations to people who are not on this forum but in general there seems to be silence from the department.

We will be contacting our TD by the end of this month if there are no updates on our case.

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by gsvzla » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:05 pm

I called today and the rep I spoke to told me existing applications shouldn't be affected, but that they weren't 100% sure. I also went to the immigration office and even though this is not part of their department they also told me they don't see existing applications being affected by this ruling or any other decisions made in the future. They just told me to keep an eye on their website.

I received my second stage letter a month or so ago and today I was told my application was waiting to be sent to the minister for a decision.

Hopefully we will have more concise news soon from their end.

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by markem » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:41 pm

lilirere wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:05 pm
Out of curiosity, has anyone out there with a pending citizenship application that would be (negatively) impacted by this court ruling:

1) received an invitation for the September ceremony?
No, haven't seen any, but would not expect to yet. For the last 3 ceremonies, the run of approvals starts 5 or 6 weeks prior to the ceremony. For this coming September ceremony, that would mean approvals starting to be reported later this week or early next week.

Image
lilirere wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:05 pm
2) received any updates by mail (stage 2 letter, request for more documents, etc.) from INIS in the weeks since the ruling to suggest that their application is still being processed?
I have seen 2 people get second stage letters after the ruling date (not sure if they were posted before the ruling though. There have been no approvals reported. However, approvals are unusual for July and August anyway.
Image
lilirere wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:05 pm
4) been in contact with a TD about their case?
I emailed a TD to bring the issue to their attention and ask that they vote for the updated legislation when it comes before the Dail.
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by markem » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:28 pm

lilirere wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:05 pm
4) been in contact with a TD about their case?
Here is an update that I just got from my TD:
Following on from the ruling by the high court we made a number of representations to the Minister who has assured us that this ruling is not affecting applications currently in the system.
 
As you said the Minister is looking to have legislation to address this ruling implemented as soon as possible. I believe the ruling by the high court was unreasonable and unfair. It is simply not practical in any way to put this ruling in place and the Minister is addressing it as quickly as he can.
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by hdsgnr » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:56 am

Do you guys know on what date exactly was the court ruling?
I sent my application on 15th July this year, and got back acknowledgement letter and passport just two days later, dated 16th July.
I've read the article about this case on 18th July.

Not sure if I'm in the category of "not affecting applications currently in the system." as stated above.

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by markem » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:33 am

From the Irish Times today...
Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan is to introduce a new law that will grant applicants for Irish citizenship the right to be absent from the country for a set period of time.

Mr Flanagan said the urgent draft legislation will address a significant decision made in the High Court earlier this summer whereby a judge ruled that an applicant for naturalisation must have “unbroken” residence in the State for an entire year before the date of their application.

The Minister’s discretionary practice of allowing applicants six weeks out of the country, for holiday or other reasons, and more time in exceptional circumstances, was not permitted by law, Mr Justice Max Barrett ruled.

Mr Flanagan said he had a first draft of the new law to address the issue, which he acknowledges has caused considerable concern to applicants over the summer.

“The court took a very narrow and literal view. I’m going to deal with this by legislation. I have a first draft and I would expect to publish that legislation over the next few weeks. I’ve been talking to the Opposition spokespersons and I would be very keen to deal with this issue and provide clarity in the first few weeks of the Dáil term.

He acknowledged the concern around the issue.

“What I propose doing is to allow for a period of time for an applicant to be out of the jurisdiction. I think that’s necessary for a number of reasons,” he said.

“We have applicants who may be working in Northern Ireland, people who go overseas for work for a period of time, people who might even go abroad for their wedding. The literal interpretation of the law requires change on my part and I intend doing that shortly.”

He said there are three groups of people who are concerned, namely those who have had their citizenship granted, those who are in the process and those who wish to apply but haven’t yet done so.

“All three groups, comprising tens of thousands of people, require clarity.”

The Minister said he had not yet decided what length the period of time such absences would extend to and that he would discuss the issue with the Opposition in the coming weeks.
Doesn't look like it will be completed before the scheduled September ceremony, but does appear to be on track for early October.
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by markem » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:26 am

The Minister has responded to a series of questions in the Oireachtas about this topic.
As of 3rd September there were 15,647 applications for citizenship on hand. The majority of such applicants are potentially affected by the ruling.
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by iamok » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:56 pm

markem wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:26 am
The Minister has responded to a series of questions in the Oireachtas about this topic.
As of 3rd September there were 15,647 applications for citizenship on hand. The majority of such applicants are potentially affected by the ruling.
Other than the number of applications pending, the minister's response is just another regurgitation of the generic responses we've become accustomed to.

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Bealtaine » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:00 pm

Yes, sad re another regurgitation.
Yet what can be done when they’re in recess?
Wonder why the media isn’t covering the citizenship bit and the wait- people have been waiting for years! If there’s a shortage of staff, then surely they need to hire more. How can naturalization take longer than 6 months?! I’m close to hitting the three month Maria and I’m yet to receive a reference number and a receipt of payment!
Can’t believe they placed so much emphasis on ‘continuous’ without the ‘residence’ bit. You are still a resident when you leave the state for a couple of weeks in total!

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Stanina » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:49 am

"As of 3rd September there were 15,647 applications for citizenship on hand....to date this year a total of 2,981 adults and 849 minors have been naturalized."
Simple math says 15 600/3700 = 4 years to process all applications. :roll: :cry:

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by markem » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:22 pm

Several TDs are now asking questions about the timing. It will be interesting to see the responses.

RC
To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality when the Irish nationality and citizenship (amendment) bill will pass both Houses of the Oireachtas in view of the practical difficulties that arise for applicants for naturalisation from a recent court ruling; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [38579/19]
RS
To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality further to his previous e-mail (details supplied), the position regarding legislation to address a recent High Court judgement on citizenship rights; if citizenship eligibility rules will be brought into line with other countries in which applicants are allowed 90 days or more per year outside the country prior to their application; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [38413/19]
EM
To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality when the first draft of new legislation will
be brought forward which will grant applicants for Irish citizenship the right to be absent from
the country for a set period of time; when clarity will be provided on the issue in view of the fact
that the High Court ruling regarding same is causing distress for applicants; and if he will make a
statement on the matter. — EM. [38335/19]
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by Bealtaine » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:03 pm

Yes very interesting indeed.

Out of curiosity, has anyone applied in June and gotten a reference number from them yet?
Has anyone applied in Sept?

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by CR001 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:16 pm

Bealtaine wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:03 pm
Yes very interesting indeed.

Out of curiosity, has anyone applied in June and gotten a reference number from them yet?
Has anyone applied in Sept?
Can we kindly keep this topic specific to the judgement and not to application process questions.
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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by markem » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:40 am

markem wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:22 pm
Several TDs are now asking questions about the timing. It will be interesting to see the responses.
The response is back, copied below... same answer for all questions. The key piece is that the Minister has confirmed they are waiting for the outcome of the appeal before introducing the new legislation. The appeal is set for 8th October in the Court of Appeal.
I am aware that the recent judgment of the High Court relating to continuous residency under Section 15(1)(c) of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956 (as amended) has given cause for concern. The matter remains before the courts with the lodgement of an appeal before the Court of Appeal and is therefore sub-judice.

I can, however, assure the Deputy that my Department is doing everything possible to put in place a solution on an urgent basis. I have taken expert legal advice and I intend to introduce legislation to address the issue. At the end of July, I obtained Cabinet approval for a proposed Bill and intensive work is taking place in my Department where officials are working with the Office of Parliamentary Counsel in the Attorney General's Office to finalise the draft Bill.

I am advised that the appeal is likely to be heard early next month. The outcome of the appeal will, of course, have a bearing on whether or not legislation is required.Should it be necessary, I intend to introduce the Bill in the Oireachtas as soon as possible this term. I know that colleagues of all parties are concerned with the difficulty that has arisen and I am hopeful that the Oireachtas will give the Bill early and positive consideration.

As soon as the legal issues are resolved, my officials will make all necessary arrangements for the next Citizenship Ceremony. Invitations will issue four weeks in advance of the ceremony to ensure everyone has adequate notice.

In the interim, the Immigration Service of my Department is advising those who are planning to apply for citizenship to continue to collect all of the necessary proofs that support their application and to submit a comprehensive application form. Once a solution is in place, if any additional information is required, applicants will be contacted as part of the processing of their application.
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by aneelrahim » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:58 am

markem wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:22 pm
Several TDs are now asking questions about the timing. It will be interesting to see the responses.

The response is back, copied below... same answer for all questions. The key piece is that the Minister has confirmed they are waiting for the outcome of the appeal before introducing the new legislation. The appeal is set for 8th October in the Court of Appeal.
I already predict that on 20 Sept that they are waiting for appeal.

post1828221.html#p1828221

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by markem » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:53 pm

aneelrahim wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:58 am
I already predict that on 20 Sept that they are waiting for appeal.
Congratulations :lol:
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

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Re: Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

Post by aneelrahim » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:43 am


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