Previously refused under 320(11) reapply spouse visa

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:30 pm

Apply spouse visa apply two month ago got refusal by email today
Under 320(11)

You have previously breached the Immigration Rules by overstaying for a period in
excess of 5 years. I am also satisfied that there are a number of aggravating
circumstances in your case. You submitted false documentation in support of your
application on 29/6/2010. Furthermore, you gave a false identity when you were
encountered on 14/4/2015.

S-EC.1.5. The exclusion of the applicant from the UK is conducive to the public good
because, for example, the applicant’s conduct (including convictions which do not fall
within paragraph S-EC.1.4.), character, associations, or other reasons, make it
undesirable to grant them entry clearance.

All other requirment are meet

Got appeal right but any case law for similar case ?
Anybody previously same situation got appeal allow

Sponsor have ilr doing study got very strong family life in uk live with parent nd grandma same house she only to care here grandma all other relative also in uk

Any chance to success my case

geoeng · Post by **geoeng** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:59 pm

You are probably better off speaking to a lawyer regarding these issues and your potential chances of success in an appeal. Even if they were willing to ignore the overstaying for more than 5 years, having provided false documentation and made false representations in previous applications are reasons on their own for refusing an application. Again, you need legal advice more than forum comments I think.

physicskate · Post by **physicskate** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:52 pm

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:30 pm
Apply spouse visa apply two month ago got refusal by email today
Under 320(11)

You have previously breached the Immigration Rules by overstaying for a period in
excess of 5 years. I am also satisfied that there are a number of aggravating
circumstances in your case. You submitted false documentation in support of your
application on 29/6/2010. Furthermore, you gave a false identity when you were
encountered on 14/4/2015.

S-EC.1.5. The exclusion of the applicant from the UK is conducive to the public good
because, for example, the applicant’s conduct (including convictions which do not fall
within paragraph S-EC.1.4.), character, associations, or other reasons, make it
undesirable to grant them entry clearance.

Any chance to success my case

I do not see any hope of appealling this, if all info is correct. They have deemed your previous history not 'conducive to public good.' This is subjective, to a certain extent and so you will have a hell of a time convincing them otherwise. You need SERIOUS legal advise, as in, the best there is. This is going to cost time and serious ££££ and does not have a real prospect of success (in my opinion).

Jaune08 · Post by **Jaune08** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:18 pm

physicskate wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:52 pm
This is subjective, to a certain extent and so you will have a hell of a time convincing them otherwise. You need SERIOUS legal advise, as in, the best there is. This is going to cost time and serious ££££ and does not have a real prospect of success (in my opinion).

Absolutely agree with you.

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:30 pm
S-EC.1.5. The exclusion of the applicant from the UK is conducive to the public good

Got appeal right but any case law for similar case ?
Anybody previously same situation got appeal allow

Any chance to success my case

I think you should contact an immigration lawyer about your case. From a perspective of someone who had applied for a visa, I don’t consider this may be successful in the future. It doesn’t matter if you meet other conditions for the visa, you were refused for providing false identity and you were an overstayer. I cannot see how you can prove the opposite to overturn their decision during an appeal process, if those facts were true.

We all might be wrong, but in your case you should contact a solicitor ASAP.

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:36 pm

Thanks for reply
I see barister he say apply fresh application with accept all thing than go for appeal
He said sponsor have strong family life in uk

Sponsor my wife going to apply naturalition it's any iffect in my appeal?

Any chance to success that sponsor have very strong family life ?

Jaune08 · Post by **Jaune08** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:33 pm

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:36 pm
Any chance to success that sponsor have very strong family life ?

That has nothing to do with your application. Your sponsor could have all their family living in the UK, be a British citizen by naturalisation, a good job, etc. But that WON'T change the way your application will be assessed and that you lied to Home Office by giving false identity. How will it solve the problem of being an overstayer and the identity issue? How exactly will it fix your problem? Exactly, there's no way your sponsor's familiar circumstances will impact positively and it won't solve it.

I suggest you to consult another solicitor, as it seems this one only wants to get profit from you. Consult another lawyer and contrast their opinions. And choose the one it seems more logical to you.

Jaune08 · Post by **Jaune08** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:59 pm

I’m really pissed off by your solicitors advice. Look, there are basically two ways to approach an appeal.

One is to change the circumstances that led you to being refused. For example, if you missed a document, submitted a wrong one, Home Office has made an administrative mistake, etc. You can submit a new document or clearly point out that Home Office forgot to see a document, etc. Of course this approach won’t apply to your case, because you can’t change the fact you overstayed illegally for five years and you gave them a false identity at some point.

Other option is challenge Home Office’s decision. At least from my knowledge is concerned, this is what you need to do. It’s a lengthy process (up to a year sometimes), lots of money, but a judge will hear your case and you will have the chance to expose your situation and explain it.

Reapplying like the solicitor is telling you to do, will take you to nowhere. Because you will face another refusal since your circumstances regarding to the overstaying and the identity haven’t changed and they won’t. You will end up losing money. As you see, your sponsor has nothing to do with this.

When I faced a refusal, it didn’t matter that my husband was British by birth, that I have a British child and I have strong family ties to the UK. That had NOTHING to do with the reason for refusal. I was still rejected. Even though my case is completely different to yours, I focused on the reason for refusal and did something about it. That’s what you need to do, challenge their decision, no relying on your wife expecting that Home Office will have some sort of compassion due to your wife’s family ties, because they won’t.

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:44 pm

Thanks for your reply june08

I left uk voluntary four year ago ? I try for entry clearance

What was your case about did u try for entry clearance?

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:50 pm

You submitted false documentation in support of your
application on 29/6/2010. Furthermore, you gave a false identity when you were
encountered on 14/4/2015.

What false documents did you submit and did you use a stolen identity to give to ho?

Also, with these two issues above, does your letter state a 10 year ban on applying for a UK visa?

physicskate · Post by **physicskate** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:59 pm

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:44 pm
Thanks for your reply june08

I left uk voluntary four year ago ? I try for entry clearance

What was your case about did u try for entry clearance?

But it seems they are holding your conduct while in the UK against you. They mention 'other convictions'??

Entry clearance applications will continue to be refused until you address the cause of the refusal. What can you do to prove to them that your entry is in the public good, not just that you would join your wife. Because of your prior bad acts, including lying to the HO, you have a mighty uphill battle to prove you have changed. And to think otherwise probably just proves their point (again, this is my opinion).

They can continue to deny your entry if they continue to believe it is against the public good. Quite honestly, other cases are almost irrelevant here... it is your conduct that is relevant.

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:08 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:50 pm

You submitted false documentation in support of your
application on 29/6/2010. Furthermore, you gave a false identity when you were
encountered on 14/4/2015.
What false documents did you submit
and did you use a stolen identity to give to ho? It was bank statement
No I give name than they find my orignal name by finger so no document given identity

Also, with these two issues above, does your letter state a 10 year ban on applying for a UK visa?
No

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:13 pm

physicskate wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:59 pm

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:44 pm
Thanks for your reply june08

I left uk voluntary four year ago ? I try for entry clearance

What was your case about did u try for entry clearance?
But it seems they are holding your conduct while in the UK against you. They mention 'other convictions'??

Entry clearance applications will continue to be refused until you address the cause of the refusal. What can you do to prove to them that your entry is in the public good, not just that you would join your wife. Because of your prior bad acts, including lying to the HO, you have a mighty uphill battle to prove you have changed. And to think otherwise probably just proves their point (again, this is my opinion).
Yes that's my solicitor saying I left uk four year ago and now I m changed

They can continue to deny your entry if they continue to believe it is against the public good. Quite honestly, other cases are almost irrelevant here... it is your conduct that is relevant.
Yes that's we think to do but thanks for your time if have any good opinion or reported un reported case rafrance pls post for me nd other people they like my situation

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:18 pm

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:08 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:50 pm

You submitted false documentation in support of your
application on 29/6/2010. Furthermore, you gave a false identity when you were
encountered on 14/4/2015.
What false documents did you submit
and did you use a stolen identity to give to ho? It was bank statement
No I give name than they find my orignal name by finger so no document given identity

Also, with these two issues above, does your letter state a 10 year ban on applying for a UK visa?
No

So you lied to ho.

What false documents did you submit in June 2010?

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:20 pm

Yes previously 2010 application I lie
Banks statement

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:23 pm

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:20 pm
Yes previously 2010 application I lie
Banks statement

So deception.

That combined with lying about who you are is something ho takes very seriously.

It would be very difficult and costly to try overcome this.

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:28 pm

Cr100i left uk voluntary four year ago deception application almost 10 year ago and false name given 5 year ago
So there chance of sucess in spouse visa appeal or not at all

Jaune08 · Post by **Jaune08** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:51 pm

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:28 pm
Cr100i left uk voluntary four year ago deception application almost 10 year ago and false name given 5 year ago
So there chance of sucess in spouse visa appeal or not at all

For Home Office, these two acts (lying and deception) are still relevant that they refused your entry clearance for something that happened 10 years ago. So, as you can see, it doesn’t matter the temporality of the facts but the existence of them in your records.

I am sorry, but I don’t think you hold a strong case to have a successful appeal at all. As CR001 stated, it will be very difficult and requires a lot of money.

As I have said before, consult another lawyer and listen to their opinion, because the current one will charge you a fee for a case that he knows won’t succeed only for submitting a new fresh application.

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:29 am

Thanks to all of for your opinion
Now going to fresh application we know they gonna refused same reson than we will appeal nd try to success what will out come I will post year its long process this is the option I have so let's try at same time you guys have any opinions or case law related my case pls post here
We will fight we will not give up post here of out come pray for me guys in difficult time I having
Many thanks cr001 nd june08 for your time

bathanza · Post by **bathanza** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:43 am

Apply again explaining exact reasons as to why you used a false ID and what circumstances you had.

The home office want the truth. Not lies

You can get a visa. I assure you. In my in law family there is someone who over stayed and left in same way who had entered the UK under another identity

He went for spouse visa and didn't declare what he did. Refused.

He reapplied stating reasons as to why he used a fake ID and overstayed which was refused WITH appeal. Battled in court which was over turned and EC given

If you have been given appeal rights now then further submission can be given but for God's sake. Be honest! You'll get no where if you hide the truth.

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:06 am

Thanks bathanza
Yes that's I going to do reapplying with all things explain with true nothing hidde than going for appeal
last I apply my self now I will apply with advice form barrister
But I here other frd saying this type of case depend on judge and how you represent? Do u thing is if is good judge meter ?
I hope God give one chance

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:15 am

I have question about rules that "320(11)" And sutability "S-EC.1.5. Paragraph " both rule are same or different ?

they use S-EC 1.5 is OH apply on my refusal its correct? becoz I here is apply on criminal

physicskate · Post by **physicskate** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:41 am

Chuhan1234 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:15 am
I have question about rules that "320(11)" And sutability "S-EC.1.5. Paragraph " both rule are same or different ?

they use S-EC 1.5 is OH apply on my refusal its correct? becoz I here is apply on criminal

They are two different points for refusal.

'Reusal of entry clearance, leave to enter and leave to remain is mandatory where:
• A person is a member of a proscribed group
• A person is suspected of war crimes or crimes against humanity
• A person’s presence is undesirable because of their character, conduct or associations
• A person’s presence might lead to an infringement of UK law or a breach of public order
• A person’s presence may lead to an offence being committed by someone else. '

I suspect it is the third bullet point they are referring to - the fact that you lied to the HO on at least two separate occasions several years apart... I remind you that these are illegal acts. It does seem perhaps a tad harsh, but these were not mistakes on your part, but intentional acts (supplying false identity and false documents).

It seems they have used multiple discretionary (which again are subjective) tools against you.

Zerubbabel · Post by **Zerubbabel** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:52 pm

There are 6 years between the 2 offenses they picked-up.

This suggests some level of determination. It wasn't just once that you used deception, but it seems that's you used it for a while as a normal state of affairs.

Solicitors are taking your money, that's why they are happy to launch procedure after procedure for you.

Family life is not a golden joker.

Please do keep us updated but I don't think you will ever get them to reverse this decision.

If you genuinely changed, it may be cheaper and faster for you to consider other countries where you can start from scratch.

Chuhan1234 · Post by **Chuhan1234** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:32 am

Thanks for your opinion

I know is less chance but I have no other opation so better I reapply with all fact expalin ECO than we know they refused but i will do the appeal than see what outcome becoz i know there is deception in my case but I read many unreported case and judge allow the appeal with multiple deception also have no child so I have hope from God

geoeng · Post by **geoeng** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:39 pm

There is case law on both sides of this. Sometimes the appeal is allowed and sometimes it isn't. Much of the time it appears the decision rests on whether the immigration officer properly considered the seriousness of the deception, overstaying and provision of false documents against your actions and difficulties refusing your application would cause to your family. I think Home Office has learned much from the legal precedents and puts serious consideration into these types of applications now.

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