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EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Dav20
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EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Dav20 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:59 am

Hi,
I'm a UK citizen exercising EU treaty rights in Ireland along with qualifying family member.

My job offer has been on hold possibly due to the brexit situation. However, i didn't wait and moved to Ireland and rented a place and making arrangements to go self employed while waiting for jobs to fruition.

My question is do i have to have employment confirmed or self employment generating income by the 90 days time period to qualify for exercising treaty rights,?

I can start generating income in my self employment but it'll take time to get established. Alternatively, i can try and find any job outside of my skills if it would be easier to support my case.

I have been trying to find info related to self sufficiency and how best to meet the criteria for exercising treaty rights.

(On a side note, i can stay in Ireland without any income for the next 6 months to a year using my savings. However, i don't want to take this approach as I think I'll need to have private comprehensive insurance which will quickly drain my savings.

I have been naive in how complicated the healthcare system is and i still don't get it. )

Any advice on the best approach to get EU residency card given the lack of confirmed employment situation?

Many thanks,
Dav

shpirtshqipe
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Posts: 327
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:33 am

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by shpirtshqipe » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:36 pm

You are doing all the right things to establish yourself but I would suggest you take a second job to show immediate income whilst waiting for your self employment to generate income, tax etc. I would assume minimum wage earnings would be a good starting point.

Healthcare is simple.
For your purpose all you need is a basic private health insurance cover plan to satisfy INIS requirements. To my knowledge there’s no minimum requirements by INIS. You can still access public (nhs) hospitals and services but they tend to be slow unless it is an emergency.

I don’t know how long you’ve been in Ireland but if you’ve gone past the 2-3 month mark, I would advise you apply for the residence card with whatever supporting evidence you have (assuming your qualifying family member is already in Ireland). INIS can be slow to reply which should give you more time to gather further evidence for submission. The initial evidence that would be good to have with the application is proof of PPSN Number, tenancy agreement or letter from landlord, bank statement (if available), mobile or utility bill (if available) (list not exhaustive).

Meanwhile if your family member is here start now to include their name in your tenancy agreement or letter from landlord, joined names on utilities/mobile phone/broadband bills etc.

May I ask what relation is your qualified family member and are they here with you?

Good Luck with your journey

Dav20
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Dav20 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:12 am

Thanks shpirtshqipe :D,
Thanks for your time and reply. I was thinking along the same lines of getting a temp job but as I'm in a specific profession, i was worried it'll seem too obvious that my job is only for the purpose of proving minimum wages. But if that'll satisfy the INIS then I'll be happy to go for any temp job. Even that seems to take time.

If i don't need health insurance as mandatory then I'll probably not go for it as from what i hear it can be quite expensive. I'll have a look around for some quotes for basic cover anyway.

Qual family member is my dependant mother and she's with me. We are already in process for PPN.

It's not the 3 month mark yet but i need to get these in place by the 3 month mark. Do you know if i as British citizen is also required to get a residence card? I would love to get one as the uncertainty with Brexit means i would have no ways of proving my residence formally when i travel to EU (in future).

Landlord already provided tenancy, letter etc. Bank account in process but keeping my money in UK account for now as bank account still not ready and also there seems to be charges for each transfer, withdrawal etc.

Many thanks,
Dav

shpirtshqipe
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Posts: 327
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Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by shpirtshqipe » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:08 pm

Health insurance:
I did not say it isn’t compulsory but that there is no minimum requirement on the level of private health insurance cover you take. You and your parent will need the private health insurance for the purpose of the application (this is asked on the application form). As I said choose a very basic plan.

Residence card EU Citizen (You)
You don’t need to get a residence card at the moment since INIS has confirmed it will honour the rights of EU citizens deal or no deal. Furthermore unless the Good Friday Agreement is null and voided you shouldn’t have problems with you living here in Ireland. As for travelling within the EU depending on what the agreement is after Brexit, you may have to apply for Schengen or tourist visa to travel. Unless you are from mainland Europe and your country of birth is part of the Schengen scheme.

Employment:
You are an EU citizen and can take whatever job you like and change it at your pleasure (obviously the less of this the better). Irrespective of the type of job you take (employed or self-employed) as long as you show income should be ok. Make sure when your job changes that you inform INIS so they are aware.

Banking:
Most banks have charges however if you earn over a certain amount monthly most of these charges do not apply to you. You will often get a one off annual charge part paid to the government and part paid to the bank. The easiest thing to do is exchange your sterling at the Post Office or Sainsbury’s to Euro and then pay it in at the Irish bank. You’ll get better exchange rate and also less bank charge for transferring money over.

Parent:
This is the most crucial part of the application to make sure your parent is dependent on you. By this I mean being able to provide evidence of regular financial support to your parent, their living conditions i.e. properties or wealth your parent has back home (the less wealth obviously the better). I am assuming you’ve already collected such evidence ready for submission

Good luck

arz1986
- thin ice -
Posts: 228
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Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by arz1986 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:19 am

try any other EU country like germany or belgium, it is easy and quicker, In ireland it will take alot of time and difficult.

Dav20
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Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Dav20 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:01 am

shpirtshqipe wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:08 pm
Health insurance:
I did not say it isn’t compulsory but that there is no minimum requirement on the level of private health insurance cover you take. You and your parent will need the private health insurance for the purpose of the application (this is asked on the application form). As I said choose a very basic plan.

Residence card EU Citizen (You)
You don’t need to get a residence card at the moment since INIS has confirmed it will honour the rights of EU citizens deal or no deal. Furthermore unless the Good Friday Agreement is null and voided you shouldn’t have problems with you living here in Ireland. As for travelling within the EU depending on what the agreement is after Brexit, you may have to apply for Schengen or tourist visa to travel. Unless you are from mainland Europe and your country of birth is part of the Schengen scheme.

Employment:
You are an EU citizen and can take whatever job you like and change it at your pleasure (obviously the less of this the better). Irrespective of the type of job you take (employed or self-employed) as long as you show income should be ok. Make sure when your job changes that you inform INIS so they are aware.

Banking:
Most banks have charges however if you earn over a certain amount monthly most of these charges do not apply to you. You will often get a one off annual charge part paid to the government and part paid to the bank. The easiest thing to do is exchange your sterling at the Post Office or Sainsbury’s to Euro and then pay it in at the Irish bank. You’ll get better exchange rate and also less bank charge for transferring money over.

Parent:
This is the most crucial part of the application to make sure your parent is dependent on you. By this I mean being able to provide evidence of regular financial support to your parent, their living conditions i.e. properties or wealth your parent has back home (the less wealth obviously the better). I am assuming you’ve already collected such evidence ready for submission

Good luck
Thanks again for your time and the detailed response. Very useful advice about the banking and parent. I have been supporting parent for several years now and financial dependency is obvious and hopefully can be demonstrated to their requirements.

I didn't realise that health insurance is mandatory and I haven't taken any yet and left those sections blank. It seemed like health insurance was asked if I'm using the self sufficiency option but employment or self employment sections didn't ask about health insurance details.

Also, I'm wondering if residence card is not provided for EU nationals then how can I demonstrate that I have been a resident in Ireland if i move to another EU country after Brexit? Without the EU residence card it'll be difficult to demonstrate my residence in Ireland. This will be the case until I can get permanent residence and that'll be good few years.

Not sure what the best way to go about this.

Dav20
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Dav20 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:10 am

arz1986 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:19 am
try any other EU country like germany or belgium, it is easy and quicker, In ireland it will take alot of time and difficult.
Thanks for your advice. I've been looking at Belgium option but it's probably a little late for that now given that we've already found a place in Ireland and signed a lease etc.

Also to leave to Belgium before Brexit would mean that my parent should be granted Visa for entry or we risk showing up at the border with no Visa. This could also mean that if they don't let the parent in then we would need a reentry Visa for Ireland and the clock will reset and we may need to start again.

Would definitely love to move to an European country where the process would be easier, simpler and quicker. However, no perspective job offers there and language issues could mean further struggle with other areas like jobs, housing etc.

Not sure if I'm overthinking all this. Perhaps it could be much straight forward if I knew the right steps.

:-)

arz1986
- thin ice -
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by arz1986 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:45 pm

I apply for the same case, my experience is not good with INIS. but I wish u good luck.

shpirtshqipe
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Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by shpirtshqipe » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:59 pm

You don’t need a residence card per se. By 3 months of you being here in Ireland and established yourself with a job, rent, bank, paying taxes, utility bills will qualify you as an “ordinary resident” in Ireland. So by the end of January providing Brexit officially happens you’d have been over 3 months living here which makes you a resident.
After Brexit happens INIS has said that it will honour the rights of UK Citizens family members (non EU dependents & spouse included). So far it appears INIS is preparing to transition all EUFAM holders into domestic Irish law after Brexit whilst ensuring the same rights are also upheld.

As for the previous responder’s reply, every person’s case is different and what’s crucial is to prove as much as possible dependence of your parent. In doing so the law is straightforward and my experience (luckily) has been positive.

Health insurance you would be wise to take out the most basic plan to ensure INIS doesn’t use this potentially as an excuse to create problems for you.

Dav20
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Dav20 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:23 am

shpirtshqipe wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:59 pm
You don’t need a residence card per se. By 3 months of you being here in Ireland and established yourself with a job, rent, bank, paying taxes, utility bills will qualify you as an “ordinary resident” in Ireland. So by the end of January providing Brexit officially happens you’d have been over 3 months living here which makes you a resident.
After Brexit happens INIS has said that it will honour the rights of UK Citizens family members (non EU dependents & spouse included). So far it appears INIS is preparing to transition all EUFAM holders into domestic Irish law after Brexit whilst ensuring the same rights are also upheld.

As for the previous responder’s reply, every person’s case is different and what’s crucial is to prove as much as possible dependence of your parent. In doing so the law is straightforward and my experience (luckily) has been positive.

Health insurance you would be wise to take out the most basic plan to ensure INIS doesn’t use this potentially as an excuse to create problems for you.
Thanks shpirtshqipe, I understand that I'll be ordinarily resident but how can I then demonstrate the "residency in Ireland" when I'm travelling to other EU countries eg say Germany at the arrival as I'll only be holding British passport and not a EU residence card from Ireland. But on the other hand, if I register say in Belgium then my understanding is that they'll issue me with a EU residence card for a given period day 5 years. Then, if I'm travelling to Germany, I'll not need to use my British passport but I can use my Belgium issued residence card? But with Ireland residency status I can't do that right?

Thanks for the details about the dependency and I'll try and send them as much as I can.

I'm looking into the health insurance now and any idea how much a basic plan will cost as it doesn't seem to be obvious and there seems to be multiple providers.

Thanks again and congratulations on your success.

Best wishes,

Dav20
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Dav20 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:34 am

arz1986 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:45 pm
I apply for the same case, my experience is not good with INIS. but I wish u good luck.
I couldn't PM you or check what sort of issues you faced. It'll be helpful to learn from your experiences. And sorry to hear about your experiences. I'm worried that it should all go well for us especially as my firm employment offer isn't in place yet.

When I used this site many years ago I used to be able to look into other members posts by looking at their username posts. Now I'm restricted but I've lost my previous login details.

Please PM me if you can with your details.

Thanks a lot :-)

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CR001
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Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by CR001 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:13 pm

Dav20 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:34 am
arz1986 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:45 pm
I apply for the same case, my experience is not good with INIS. but I wish u good luck.
I couldn't PM you or check what sort of issues you faced. It'll be helpful to learn from your experiences. And sorry to hear about your experiences. I'm worried that it should all go well for us especially as my firm employment offer isn't in place yet.

When I used this site many years ago I used to be able to look into other members posts by looking at their username posts. Now I'm restricted but I've lost my previous login details.

Please PM me if you can with your details.

Thanks a lot :-)
You don't have access to the PM privilege as a newly registered member and asking members to PM you can result in you not being granted the PM function either. Everyone on the forum is a complete stranger and we have many spammers and scammers who visit the forum daily.

Post in public so all can help and search a user's post if you wish to understand their circumstances.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

shpirtshqipe
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Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by shpirtshqipe » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:31 pm

His Dav20

You are over complicating things

Residency:
Moving to another EU Country simply for travelling freedom within the EU after Brexit (what other reason is there), being a British citizen isn’t necessary at all. If you asked me unjustifiable altogether. Nobody knows what will happen truly until Brexit happens. Even in the worst case scenario you can simply apply for a Schengen visa that will cover you for 3 months travel. If you do business in mainland EU I’m sure there’s provisions of a business type visa you can avail.

But if you think your case isn’t strong enough to prove dependency then I suppose exploring other EU Countries is an option. A word of caution though. You’ll need to move fast because whenever you go within the EU, you’ll be racing against the time with Brexit approaching end of January. Again any other EU Country you go you’ll have to do the same you did here to first settle yourself until you start having Util bills, rent, a job etc etc before you can apply.

My advise. Stay in ireland


Health insurance:
Visit the website below to guide you through the process of choosing a plan suitable to your needs (again the more options you include the more expensive your cover will become). Depending on how healthy your parent is you should seriously think about getting a slightly higher cover if you want quicker treatment should they ever needed it. After all you’ll be paying money anyway. For yourself take the most basic.

https://www.hia.ie/comparison-tool/#/


My final advise to you is to not waste time and continue as you mean to go on with your application here in Ireland.

Good Luck

Dav20
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Dav20 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:42 am

CR001 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:13 pm
Dav20 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:34 am
arz1986 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:45 pm
I apply for the same case, my experience is not good with INIS. but I wish u good luck.
I couldn't PM you or check what sort of issues you faced. It'll be helpful to learn from your experiences. And sorry to hear about your experiences. I'm worried that it should all go well for us especially as my firm employment offer isn't in place yet.

When I used this site many years ago I used to be able to look into other members posts by looking at their username posts. Now I'm restricted but I've lost my previous login details.

Please PM me if you can with your details.

Thanks a lot :-)
You don't have access to the PM privilege as a newly registered member and asking members to PM you can result in you not being granted the PM function either. Everyone on the forum is a complete stranger and we have many spammers and scammers who visit the forum daily.

Post in public so all can help and search a user's post if you wish to understand their circumstances.
Thanks for clarifying and i can understand your concerns. I would like to clarify that i have been a regular forum member several years ago and it's just that i lost my login details and hence the 'new membership'. Nevertheless, i don't intend to spam anytime or breach forum policies. I can understand why pm feature may be restricted but a threat to restrict the pm feature is not very appealing ;-). If things are not obvious then perhaps a gentle reminder or update to policy would be sufficient for many. :-)

I cannot request someone to post publicly if they don't wish to share with everyone. It's a shame that pm feature cannot be used as I felt that was a great bonus on this forum given the amount of support and help offered peer to peer on the forum. It is this special peer to peer support that helps and gives hope to many at their most difficult times with immigration. And that is what makes this forum memorable to many. :-)

However, the task to manage this site becomes bearable if it's more controlled i guess, so thanks for your reminder. And have a great day:-)

Dav20
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Dav20 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:10 am

shpirtshqipe wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:31 pm
His Dav20

You are over complicating things

Residency:
Moving to another EU Country simply for travelling freedom within the EU after Brexit (what other reason is there), being a British citizen isn’t necessary at all. If you asked me unjustifiable altogether. Nobody knows what will happen truly until Brexit happens. Even in the worst case scenario you can simply apply for a Schengen visa that will cover you for 3 months travel. If you do business in mainland EU I’m sure there’s provisions of a business type visa you can avail.

But if you think your case isn’t strong enough to prove dependency then I suppose exploring other EU Countries is an option. A word of caution though. You’ll need to move fast because whenever you go within the EU, you’ll be racing against the time with Brexit approaching end of January. Again any other EU Country you go you’ll have to do the same you did here to first settle yourself until you start having Util bills, rent, a job etc etc before you can apply.

My advise. Stay in ireland


Health insurance:
Visit the website below to guide you through the process of choosing a plan suitable to your needs (again the more options you include the more expensive your cover will become). Depending on how healthy your parent is you should seriously think about getting a slightly higher cover if you want quicker treatment should they ever needed it. After all you’ll be paying money anyway. For yourself take the most basic.

https://www.hia.ie/comparison-tool/#/


My final advise to you is to not waste time and continue as you mean to go on with your application here in Ireland.

Good Luck
Thanks shpirtshqipe,
You sound exactly like what my partner thinks in terms of mobility into EU after brexit. I was thinking more along the lines of employment prospects without further hurdles of visa etc. If an employer has to choose between someone who can start work without a visa and one needing it then i have noticed that many esp agencies going for the easy option.

Yep, time isn't in our favour and many companies have put offers on hold due to brexit.

My concern is not about dependency but with INIS being very difficult to deal with and seem to give the impression that they'll drag it out. Perhaps they're following the foot steps of UK immigration. I don't seem to get this impression from other EU immigration. I could be totally wrong as I'm only using the experiences of others to best guess.

I'm here for now :-)

Thanks for the comparison site, i came across it yesterday and some of the quotes seem reasonable. But it's unbelievable how much people rely on the insurance unlike the NHS in UK which i admit i have taken it for granted and as a standard across many EU countries. I'm still having second thoughts about insurance especially if it's not mandatory plus I hate the idea of getting treatments based on privileges. It just doesn't sit well with me thinking that someone with insurance will be prioritised or receive free treatment when the most needing one is left further in a vulnerable position. It's another topic for debate :-)

Thanks shpirtshqipe for your wishes and yes the journey here continues..

Many thanks,

Lee2521
Member
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Ireland

Re: EU citizen and non EU qualifying family member

Post by Lee2521 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:56 am

Dav20 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:59 am
Hi,
I'm a UK citizen exercising EU treaty rights in Ireland along with qualifying family member.

My job offer has been on hold possibly due to the brexit situation. However, i didn't wait and moved to Ireland and rented a place and making arrangements to go self employed while waiting for jobs to fruition.

My question is do i have to have employment confirmed or self employment generating income by the 90 days time period to qualify for exercising treaty rights,?

I can start generating income in my self employment but it'll take time to get established. Alternatively, i can try and find any job outside of my skills if it would be easier to support my case.

I have been trying to find info related to self sufficiency and how best to meet the criteria for exercising treaty rights.

(On a side note, i can stay in Ireland without any income for the next 6 months to a year using my savings. However, i don't want to take this approach as I think I'll need to have private comprehensive insurance which will quickly drain my savings.

I have been naive in how complicated the healthcare system is and i still don't get it. )

Any advice on the best approach to get EU residency card given the lack of confirmed employment situation?

Many thanks,
Dav
Hi Dav,
Freedom of movement between UK and Ireland is a right for citizens OF both islands under the Common travel area and is not an EU treaty, the CTA pre dates the EU.

A lot of your posts don't make any sense, if you are a UK citizen then you have freedom of movement to Ireland and you would have permanent residence there. Also as for employment you would only need to be a citizen of a country in the EU if you needed to travel regularly to other countries in the bloc for work example you worked for Ryanair and flew to Spain .

Your family member would have to qualify though under different conditions.

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