Illegal immigration advice

Hello there, I'm looking for advice on a situation about a family I know of. This family lives in the US and they are planning on coming to the UK to "visit" over the Christmas holidays, however this family have the intent to enter the UK and never return to their home in the US, as I have discovered from another source that has spoken to the family. One is a US citizen, and the other a UK citizen that moved to the US to get married and has naturalized there. They have two US born children. They want to move to the UK, however the US citizen has not applied for any visas to gain entry into the UK. They have been selling all their belongings, have handed in their notices to quit their jobs, so they virtually have no ties back to the US. The UK citizen has been desperate to return to the UK with their family, however this person is unable to gain a job that meets the threshold to bring the whole family over. Thus why they intend to withhold the truth in order to gain access into the country. They have already paid 6 months worth of rent up front in a privately let house prior to their trip next month, however they have very little funds left to survive on, no furniture in the house, no car, no money to pay utilities and will both be unemployed for the foreseeable future. It is highly likely that they will seek to claim benefits. My question is, how likely are they to actually turn up at the border, lie about their intentions and circumstances, and actually be granted a 6 month visitor visa? Also advice on what you would do in this situation please? Thank you.

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Also advice on what you would do in this situation please? Thank you.

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Also advice on what you would do in this situation please? Thank you.

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

I believe the OP is asking should they report the family.

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Also advice on what you would do in this situation please? Thank you.

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

1. Wouldnt the US citizen be allowed to stay for a maximum of 6 months or is it only 3?
2. On investigation, the kids are dual nationals. Its the US citizen that is trying to gain illegal entry.
3. The UK citizen would need a job that pays £25k+ a year now as there are two child dependents as well, which increases the required financial threshold.

Casa wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:32 pm

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Also advice on what you would do in this situation please? Thank you.

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

I believe the OP is asking should they report the family.

Yes some advice would be helpful. I am concerned that this family will live in poverty while they are here. Additionally I am conscious that if they were denied entry at the border they would essentially be homeless on return.

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:13 pm

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Also advice on what you would do in this situation please? Thank you.

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

1. Wouldnt the US citizen be allowed to stay for a maximum of 6 months or is it only 3?
2. On investigation, the kids are dual nationals. Its the US citizen that is trying to gain illegal entry.
3. The UK citizen would need a job that pays £25k+ a year now as there are two child dependents as well, which increases the required financial threshold.

Hi,

If kids are dual national (US and UK) than they dont need to full fill financial requirement for them. Only for UK national spouse needs financial requirement £18600.

Route to ILR wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:27 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:13 pm

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Also advice on what you would do in this situation please? Thank you.

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

1. Wouldnt the US citizen be allowed to stay for a maximum of 6 months or is it only 3?
2. On investigation, the kids are dual nationals. Its the US citizen that is trying to gain illegal entry.
3. The UK citizen would need a job that pays £25k+ a year now as there are two child dependents as well, which increases the required financial threshold.

Hi,

If kids are dual national (US and UK) than they dont need to full fill financial requirement for them. Only for UK national spouse needs financial requirement £18600.

Hi thanks for your reply, but I think that the threshold increases regardless of the childrens nationality as they are still dependents that will have an impact on financial circumstances.

"If you are applying for a Spouse/Partner Visa to join your partner in the UK, you must meet the required minimum income threshold. Unless exempt, you must meet the financial requirement for Spouse Visas in the form of a minimum income threshold. For a partner applying under Appendix FM, without dependent children, the threshold is a gross annual income of at least £18,600. This increases by £3,800 for your first dependent child and £2,400 for any additional children."

Therefore for the UK citizen to bring their partner and two children to the UK, they would need to earn no less than £24,800 per year.

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:01 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:27 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:13 pm

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:46 pm

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

1. Wouldnt the US citizen be allowed to stay for a maximum of 6 months or is it only 3?
2. On investigation, the kids are dual nationals. Its the US citizen that is trying to gain illegal entry.
3. The UK citizen would need a job that pays £25k+ a year now as there are two child dependents as well, which increases the required financial threshold.

Hi,

If kids are dual national (US and UK) than they dont need to full fill financial requirement for them. Only for UK national spouse needs financial requirement £18600.

Hi thanks for your reply, but I think that the threshold increases regardless of the childrens nationality as they are still dependents that will have an impact on financial circumstances.

"If you are applying for a Spouse/Partner Visa to join your partner in the UK, you must meet the required minimum income threshold. Unless exempt, you must meet the financial requirement for Spouse Visas in the form of a minimum income threshold. For a partner applying under Appendix FM, without dependent children, the threshold is a gross annual income of at least £18,600. This increases by £3,800 for your first dependent child and £2,400 for any additional children."

Therefore for the UK citizen to bring their partner and two children to the UK, they would need to earn no less than £24,800 per year.

No, for the kids with UK citizenship this works differently (from https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income):

You must prove you have extra money if you have children who are not:

British citizens
EEA nationals
permanently settled
You’ll need to earn an extra:

£3,800 for your first child
£2,400 for each child you have after your first child
This is the called the ‘minimum income requirement’.

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:01 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:27 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:13 pm

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:46 pm

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

1. Wouldnt the US citizen be allowed to stay for a maximum of 6 months or is it only 3?
2. On investigation, the kids are dual nationals. Its the US citizen that is trying to gain illegal entry.
3. The UK citizen would need a job that pays £25k+ a year now as there are two child dependents as well, which increases the required financial threshold.

Hi,

If kids are dual national (US and UK) than they dont need to full fill financial requirement for them. Only for UK national spouse needs financial requirement £18600.

Hi thanks for your reply, but I think that the threshold increases regardless of the childrens nationality as they are still dependents that will have an impact on financial circumstances.

"If you are applying for a Spouse/Partner Visa to join your partner in the UK, you must meet the required minimum income threshold. Unless exempt, you must meet the financial requirement for Spouse Visas in the form of a minimum income threshold. For a partner applying under Appendix FM, without dependent children, the threshold is a gross annual income of at least £18,600. This increases by £3,800 for your first dependent child and £2,400 for any additional children."

Therefore for the UK citizen to bring their partner and two children to the UK, they would need to earn no less than £24,800 per year.

Kids r british citizen. They do not need to full fill financial requirement for them.

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:13 pm

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Also advice on what you would do in this situation please? Thank you.

1. Don’t break the law. Not only they plan to deceive UKVI, US citizen will become an overstayer in 3 months. Is it worth it? It’s not that they are in the country where their everyday life is in danger
2. Get kids UK citizenship
3. Start working towards meeting financial requirements and immigrate legally. 18600 isn’t completely unmanageable for a healthy person

1. Wouldnt the US citizen be allowed to stay for a maximum of 6 months or is it only 3?
2. On investigation, the kids are dual nationals. Its the US citizen that is trying to gain illegal entry.
3. The UK citizen would need a job that pays £25k+ a year now as there are two child dependents as well, which increases the required financial threshold.

Sorry, you are right with 6 months. I had Schengen area in mind when was typing the length

iwolga wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:24 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:01 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:27 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:13 pm

1. Wouldnt the US citizen be allowed to stay for a maximum of 6 months or is it only 3?
2. On investigation, the kids are dual nationals. Its the US citizen that is trying to gain illegal entry.
3. The UK citizen would need a job that pays £25k+ a year now as there are two child dependents as well, which increases the required financial threshold.

Hi,

If kids are dual national (US and UK) than they dont need to full fill financial requirement for them. Only for UK national spouse needs financial requirement £18600.

Hi thanks for your reply, but I think that the threshold increases regardless of the childrens nationality as they are still dependents that will have an impact on financial circumstances.

"If you are applying for a Spouse/Partner Visa to join your partner in the UK, you must meet the required minimum income threshold. Unless exempt, you must meet the financial requirement for Spouse Visas in the form of a minimum income threshold. For a partner applying under Appendix FM, without dependent children, the threshold is a gross annual income of at least £18,600. This increases by £3,800 for your first dependent child and £2,400 for any additional children."

Therefore for the UK citizen to bring their partner and two children to the UK, they would need to earn no less than £24,800 per year.

No, for the kids with UK citizenship this works differently (from https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income):

You must prove you have extra money if you have children who are not:

British citizens
EEA nationals
permanently settled
You’ll need to earn an extra:

£3,800 for your first child
£2,400 for each child you have after your first child
This is the called the ‘minimum income requirement’.

The children are not permanently settled in the UK which is one of the criteria, so would the UK sponsor bringing over their partner and 2 children from the US still not be required to meet financial requirement for them as well? Regardless, the UK citizen has no employment and is bringing partner and children to the UK on a visit visa with the intent to stay and hopefully find work. Therefore, the UK citizen does not even meet the £18,600 threshold to bring their US partner over.

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:40 pm

The children are not permanently settled in the UK which is one of the criteria, so would the UK sponsor bringing over their partner and 2 children from the US still not be required to meet financial requirement for them as well? Regardless, the UK citizen has no employment and is bringing partner and children to the UK on a visit visa with the intent to stay and hopefully find work. Therefore, the UK citizen does not even meet the £18,600 threshold to bring their US partner over.

No, they don't. British children, regardless of which country they live in, are exempt from the financial requirement as clearly posted above already. The British spouse only needs to meet the £18,600pa to sponsor a foreign spouse.

They can use the British spouse overseas income if it meets the requirement AND they British spouse has a confirmed job to start within 3 months of arriving in the UK.

Or they can have savings jointly or individually of £62,500 for the spouse visa too.

Note that many US citizens try what these people want to try and it ends very badly and they lose a lot of money in the process.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:45 pm

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:40 pm

The children are not permanently settled in the UK which is one of the criteria, so would the UK sponsor bringing over their partner and 2 children from the US still not be required to meet financial requirement for them as well? Regardless, the UK citizen has no employment and is bringing partner and children to the UK on a visit visa with the intent to stay and hopefully find work. Therefore, the UK citizen does not even meet the £18,600 threshold to bring their US partner over.

No, they don't. British children, regardless of which country they live in, are exempt from the financial requirement as clearly posted above already. The British spouse only needs to meet the £18,600pa to sponsor a foreign spouse.

They can use the British spouse overseas income if it meets the requirement AND they British spouse has a confirmed job to start within 3 months of arriving in the UK.

Or they can have savings jointly or individually of £62,500 for the spouse visa too.

Ok fair enough. My thinking is the US citizen has applied for the childrens dual nationality as a way to deter border control officers from questioning their entry. With the UK citizen having no job or proposed job to support their spouse, how successful will they be in gaining entry through the border? Accommodation has been agreed for 6 months stay, but after this has been paid, the family will have approx £1000 for the rest of their stay which I cant imagine is enough to cover the cost of a 6 month stay for a family of 4, especially with no other source of income. How much money would they need to show evidence of at the border to prove they could fund their stay?

Ok fair enough. My thinking is the US citizen has applied for the childrens dual nationality as a way to deter border control officers from questioning their entry. With the UK citizen having no job or proposed job to support their spouse, how successful will they be in gaining entry through the border? Accommodation has been agreed for 6 months stay, but after this has been paid, the family will have approx £1000 for the rest of their stay which I cant imagine is enough to cover the cost of a 6 month stay for a family of 4, especially with no other source of income. How much money would they need to show evidence of at the border to prove they could fund their stay?

It doesn't necessarily deter the border official at all. He is still being admitted as a visitor if he gets through. The same visitor conditions apply. No work, no public funds, no free NHS and not possible to switch to any other visa category to remain in the UK.

Be aware that if he becomes an overstayer, which is what they appear to want to do, and he is caught etc, he could be deported and face a 10 year ban.

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

They have already paid 6 months worth of rent up front in a privately let house prior to their trip next month, however they have very little funds left to survive on, no furniture in the house, no car, no money to pay utilities and will both be unemployed for the foreseeable future. It is highly likely that they will seek to claim benefits.

Likely a four month plus wait before any benefit money comes through and even when it does, I doubt that the housing elelement will cover all their rent and they will likely need to use the benefit money for their children to top up their rent. She can't claim as a single parent and there is no benefit money given to keep him. He can't work but the mother will be required to work if she wants benefits.

He needs to make sure he has full medical insurance although not sure how valid that will be when he overstays. The NHS can ask for payment up front and 50% added to the bill if there is no insuance to pay.

These stories always seem to end in tears and debts.

British citizens are not submitted to immigration control. The Home Office wouldn't ask a British parent to show maintenance funds for British children for them to come to the UK.

However, this family doesn't seem to have a sound plan especially for the US parent.

There are no sanctuary cities in the UK or similar. Due to "Hostile Environment" policies, at plenty of occasions, we are asked to demonstrate that we are either British or legally resident in the UK. Otherwise, the doors are closed. Without proper residence issued by the Home Office, you can't:

- Work
- Get a driving license
- Open a bank account
- Register with a doctor
- Rent a flat
- Study... etc.

Doctors, landlords, bankers... have now the obligation to work as immigration auxiliaries and ensure that they are dealing with people legally present in the UK.

I don't see the US citizen lasting 6 months. Regardless of his intentions, I see him back to the US rather quickly.

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:56 pm

British citizens are not submitted to immigration control. The Home Office wouldn't ask a British parent to show maintenance funds for British children for them to come to the UK.

However, this family doesn't seem to have a sound plan especially for the US parent.

There are no sanctuary cities in the UK or similar. Due to "Hostile Environment" policies, at plenty of occasions, we are asked to demonstrate that we are either British or legally resident in the UK. Otherwise, the doors are closed. Without proper residence issued by the Home Office, you can't:

- Work
- Get a driving license
- Open a bank account
- Register with a doctor
- Rent a flat
- Study... etc.

Doctors, landlords, bankers... have now the obligation to work as immigration auxiliaries and ensure that they are dealing with people legally present in the UK.

I don't see the US citizen lasting 6 months. Regardless of his intentions, I see him back to the US rather quickly.

Thanks for the information. Am I right in assuming that these elements are questioned at the border? As the UK citizen and two children will not be subject to immigration control, wont the UK citizen still need to provide proof that they will be able to support their US spouse during the "visit"? For example, UK citizen has no job, US citizen left their job and intends to stay for 6 months, therefore US citizen would need to demonstrate adequate funds for a 6 month trip. Would IO take into consideration UK citizen is unable to financially support the whole family for a 6 month period? And with nothing for US citizen to return back home to; no accommodation, no job, and no family members...I cant see how US citizen will be allowed entry? I believe theyre hoping to pull the wool over the IO's eyes and say they will be coming over just for Christmas so US citizen may be allowed in, and then intend to stay indefinitely. US citizen has lied to gain entry in the past and has been allowed in.

US citizen has lied to gain entry in the past and has been allowed in.

What did he lie about??

Can you explain what your intention is about getting all this advice?? Do you intend raising a flag with HO or are you simply gathering information?

CR001 wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:35 am

US citizen has lied to gain entry in the past and has been allowed in.

What did he lie about??

Can you explain what your intention is about getting all this advice?? Do you intend raising a flag with HO or are you simply gathering information?

He lied about who he was coming to see when sustaining the relationship with UK citizen because he knew he would be stopped and questioned at the border. I am unsure of what to do, I suppose I'm gathering information to decide if it is a reportable offense.

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:47 am

CR001 wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:35 am

US citizen has lied to gain entry in the past and has been allowed in.

What did he lie about??

Can you explain what your intention is about getting all this advice?? Do you intend raising a flag with HO or are you simply gathering information?

He lied about who he was coming to see when sustaining the relationship with UK citizen because he knew he would be stopped and questioned at the border. I am unsure of what to do, I suppose I'm gathering information to decide if it is a reportable offense.

Most US citizens can enter the UK with minimal to no questioning at all. At some major hubs, like Heathrow, a US citizen can even use electronic gates to enter the UK. This means potentially not even talking to an immigration officer.

As family coming to "visit the UK at Christmas", I don't see who would stop them. The wife + kids will be just waived in. They are British, they just their passport and they are in no question asked. For the US citizen, it's enough for him to say "Visiting for Christmas". As long as he is making strange statements or something, I don't see him back to the US.

For the reporting you seem considering, I think you have a too much a good idea about our borders protection system. I heard about people suspected of murder and reported multiple times to the police and they just managed to come to the UK without any issue or question.

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:48 am

Guest2516 wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:47 am

CR001 wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:35 am

US citizen has lied to gain entry in the past and has been allowed in.

What did he lie about??

Can you explain what your intention is about getting all this advice?? Do you intend raising a flag with HO or are you simply gathering information?

He lied about who he was coming to see when sustaining the relationship with UK citizen because he knew he would be stopped and questioned at the border. I am unsure of what to do, I suppose I'm gathering information to decide if it is a reportable offense.

Most US citizens can enter the UK with minimal to no questioning at all. At some major hubs, like Heathrow, a US citizen can even use electronic gates to enter the UK. This means potentially not even talking to an immigration officer.

As family coming to "visit the UK at Christmas", I don't see who would stop them. The wife + kids will be just waived in. They are British, they just their passport and they are in no question asked. For the US citizen, it's enough for him to say "Visiting for Christmas". As long as he is making strange statements or something, I don't see him back to the US.

For the reporting you seem considering, I think you have a too much a good idea about our borders protection system. I heard about people suspected of murder and reported multiple times to the police and they just managed to come to the UK without any issue or question.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I've known and heard of many americans that have had trouble at the border. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter which country you are from, you will still be subject to thorough immigration checks at the border. Visitors need to show strong evidence that they will be returning to their home country and of they dont this will raise red flags. I would home the immigration enforcers would take every report seriously, especially migrants who have the intent to use deception to enter the country.