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INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:04 am

Statusquo73 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:54 am
Hi guys,

What I suggest is lets contact some of the journalist, reporters who covered Citizenship issue recently..
If at least 5-6 people email those people They will put on their newspaper.
Imagine a topic like " Citizenship applicants cannot leave Ireland for a year" made a huge noise. Now if we push and tell them our story ( even anonymously) It will be a great topic to cover for them.\
I bbelive we have 2 option, MEDIA or Judical Review.

Meanhile I write myself to journalists and ask them to put this topic on their newspaper.
However we we all together do it It will make a difference. I need your help on this guys....

Lets acts together.
Brilliant idea! Thanks.

Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:11 am

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.

White_Pearl
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by White_Pearl » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:58 am

Duplicate reply, MOD please delete.
Last edited by White_Pearl on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by White_Pearl » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:00 am

Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:11 am
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.
FYI

Only a total of 458 are mentioned in the top 10 list, the other about 200 can be pakistani/african nationals.

But there must be other material available aswell online which you can use when you will write to journalists and there are also real life examples from your surroundings available, if those people are willing to put their hands up together with you.

I am not here to put your moral down, but there is a real life friend of mine, spouse of irish cit./ pakistani who got his approval in 8months (in 2017).
So really, dont know what they really look at when making a decision that for one it goes that quickly and for the other it can take more than 3 yrs. good luck with it 😊

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markem
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by markem » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:01 am

Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:11 am
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.
The list on that page is only the top ten countries at that ceremony. There are people from other countries not listed there.

Besides, this is really not a good way of making the argument. You need to know how many people from those countries actually applied to know if this is good or bad.
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:12 am

White_Pearl wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:00 am
Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:11 am
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.
FYI

Only a total of 458 are mentioned in the top 10 list, the other about 200 can be pakistani/african nationals.

But there must be other material available aswell online which you can use when you will write to journalists and there are also real life examples from your surroundings available, if those people are willing to put their hands up together with you.

I am not here to put your moral down, but there is a real life friend of mine, spouse of irish cit./ pakistani who got his approval in 8months (in 2017).
So really, dont know what they really look at when making a decision that for one it goes that quickly and for the other it can take more than 3 yrs. good luck with it 😊
Common sense. If Afghanistan, Pakistan etc were in those 200, they would be in the top 10.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:17 am

markem wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:01 am
Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:11 am
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.
The list on that page is only the top ten countries at that ceremony. There are people from other countries not listed there.

Besides, this is really not a good way of making the argument. You need to know how many people from those countries actually applied to know if this is good or bad.
The last country had 10 people attending. If the relevant countries were there, why would they not include them in the top 10? God knows where the remaining hidden 200 people exactly came from, but any other nationality had at least less than 9 guys.
Easy and simple analysis of the given statistics shows this fact.

Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:25 am

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... h-citizens

Here again the last country in the top ten shows 61 people attending.
I remember some Pakistani people protesting on the same forum when they saw these statistics.
Let's all trying and help those suffering due to this situation and not make it hard for them.
There are hundreds waiting for approval and only approving 9 max is a joke I believe.
Last edited by Alixlboy on Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

littlerr
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by littlerr » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:28 am

Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:17 am
markem wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:01 am
Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:11 am
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.
The list on that page is only the top ten countries at that ceremony. There are people from other countries not listed there.

Besides, this is really not a good way of making the argument. You need to know how many people from those countries actually applied to know if this is good or bad.
The last country had 10 people attending. If the relevant countries were there, why would they not include them in the top 10? God knows where the remaining hidden 200 people exactly came from, but any other nationality had at least less than 9 guys.
Easy and simple analysis of the given statistics shows this fact.
No that’s not how you use statistics. The onus is on you to demonstrate how many people of these nations live in Ireland and how many of them have applied for naturalisation during this period. You can get these figures from CSO and by raising parliamentary questions via your TD.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:34 am

You must all have read the news of an African national calling ireland a prison. How many statistics did he use?
Where have you all come up with this idea of statistics being a mandatory requirement for approaching the media or protesting against unfair treatment?
These are just guidelines and please take them as a guideline only.
My personal circumstances are enough of a proof for me to give me the right to protest.
We must not fuel these arguments by giving opinions not meant to help people get rid of this problem.
No more arguments from me as I am not a rocket science teacher. :|
Members can read all comments and concerns and are wise enough to understand what their next course of action should be.

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markem
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by markem » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:03 pm

Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:34 am
You must all have read the news of an African national calling ireland a prison. How many statistics did he use?
That isn't a great example to use. It came across as hyperbolic.
Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:34 am
Where have you all come up with this idea of statistics being a mandatory requirement for approaching the media or protesting against unfair treatment? These are just guidelines and please take them as a guideline only.
My personal circumstances are enough of a proof for me to give me the right to protest.
You can do whatever you like. But be warned that people (including the media) might not see the problem you believe exists. You're trying to make a generalisation about whole countries being discriminated against, based on a handful of examples. That's like me saying "all cars are black" based on the five I can see out my window right now.
Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:34 am
We must not fuel these arguments by giving opinions not meant to help people get rid of this problem.
I'm going to look at the arguments based on facts.
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

masterboy123
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by masterboy123 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:19 pm

Please remember :

The granting of Irish citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege, and not a right.

Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:43 pm

masterboy123 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:19 pm
Please remember :

The granting of Irish citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege, and not a right.
True.
But protesting against unfair treatment is our right.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by masterboy123 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:32 pm

No harm in trying but they have clause which will protect the department and I doubt it will bring any change.
Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:43 pm
masterboy123 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:19 pm
Please remember :

The granting of Irish citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege, and not a right.
True.
But protesting against unfair treatment is our right.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Omad24 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:47 pm

The man from the article was given a ticket over ten years ago with the cop claiming his disc is expired he peeled it out and said it was not. They went to court together and he was told to pay anyways. He applied for citizenship and was denied 10 years ago for a record. He then was given a wait time then told he may apply again after such time has passed. When he applied he was denied again

Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:10 pm

masterboy123 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:32 pm
No harm in trying but they have clause which will protect the department and I doubt it will bring any change.
Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:43 pm
masterboy123 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:19 pm
Please remember :

The granting of Irish citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege, and not a right.
True.
But protesting against unfair treatment is our right.
In previous such cases, judges have asked them to explain and give the reason for not giving approval within 6 months, so no clause protects them as such.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:12 pm

Omad24 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:47 pm
The man from the article was given a ticket over ten years ago with the cop claiming his disc is expired he peeled it out and said it was not. They went to court together and he was told to pay anyways. He applied for citizenship and was denied 10 years ago for a record. He then was given a wait time then told he may apply again after such time has passed. When he applied he was denied again
I think that s not fair towards the man. He was given a chance but no chance as a matter of fact.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Omad24 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:53 pm

Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:12 pm
Omad24 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:47 pm
The man from the article was given a ticket over ten years ago with the cop claiming his disc is expired he peeled it out and said it was not. They went to court together and he was told to pay anyways. He applied for citizenship and was denied 10 years ago for a record. He then was given a wait time then told he may apply again after such time has passed. When he applied he was denied again
I think that s not fair towards the man. He was given a chance but no chance as a matter of fact.
It’s ridiculous someone can denied for a ticket. Then on top of that denied again after waiting 10 years

Absolutely ridiculous

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by markem » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:34 pm

Here are some facts. 364 Pakistani nationals were granted citizenship in 2018. More than the Philippines, China, Brazil, USA and many others (page 16). This was about 4.5% of the total.

But is that good or bad? The best point of comparison is that 645 from Pakistan applied for citizenship in 2017 (page 15 of the previous report).

To make it comparable, make it a ratio of 645:364 or 1.77 applications : 1 approval in the following calendar year. A lower ratio would mean applications are approved more quickly.

As comparison, here are a few selected countries:
  • Latvia: 407 and 308 (1.3:1)
  • China: 311 and 234 (1.3:1)
  • Philippines: 418 and 320 (1.3:1)
  • Poland: 1754 and 1464 (1.2:1)
  • India: 778 and 629 (1.2:1)
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:47 am

Omad24 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:53 pm
Alixlboy wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:12 pm
Omad24 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:47 pm
The man from the article was given a ticket over ten years ago with the cop claiming his disc is expired he peeled it out and said it was not. They went to court together and he was told to pay anyways. He applied for citizenship and was denied 10 years ago for a record. He then was given a wait time then told he may apply again after such time has passed. When he applied he was denied again
I think that s not fair towards the man. He was given a chance but no chance as a matter of fact.
It’s ridiculous someone can denied for a ticket. Then on top of that denied again after waiting 10 years

Absolutely ridiculous
Exactly
And such a person is absolutely right in calling this country a prison.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:48 am

markem wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:34 pm
Here are some facts. 364 Pakistani nationals were granted citizenship in 2018. More than the Philippines, China, Brazil, USA and many others (page 16). This was about 4.5% of the total.

But is that good or bad? The best point of comparison is that 645 from Pakistan applied for citizenship in 2017 (page 15 of the previous report).

To make it comparable, make it a ratio of 645:364 or 1.77 applications : 1 approval in the following calendar year. A lower ratio would mean applications are approved more quickly.

As comparison, here are a few selected countries:
  • Latvia: 407 and 308 (1.3:1)
  • China: 311 and 234 (1.3:1)
  • Philippines: 418 and 320 (1.3:1)
  • Poland: 1754 and 1464 (1.2:1)
  • India: 778 and 629 (1.2:1)
Good info.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by pissedoffbyinis » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:02 pm

Applied in mid 2017 and still waiting.... a house wife and never worked in Pakistan nor in Ireland.. no driving history ... what checks they have to carry out?? the whole process is hilarious :)

masterboy123
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by masterboy123 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:06 pm

I don't mean to piss you, but actually leaving no public trace could be a negative factor. :|
A work history and paying taxes is always considered to be helpful.
pissedoffbyinis wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:02 pm
Applied in mid 2017 and still waiting.... a house wife and never worked in Pakistan nor in Ireland.. no driving history ... what checks they have to carry out?? the whole process is hilarious :)

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by gsvzla » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:43 pm

masterboy123 wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:06 pm
I don't mean to piss you, but actually leaving no public trace could be a negative factor. :|
A work history and paying taxes is always considered to be helpful.
pissedoffbyinis wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:02 pm
Applied in mid 2017 and still waiting.... a house wife and never worked in Pakistan nor in Ireland.. no driving history ... what checks they have to carry out?? the whole process is hilarious :)
Correct. If anything, that probably negatively affected you, as I'm assuming the government needs to make sure you can be self sufficient in terms of job, etc. And probably not having a work/taxes record could have been seen as a bad thing as they have less evidence to try and understand your character.

As other people here have said, citizenship is not a right a we have no entitlement to it. I believe that from the INIS perspective is a matter of "if you don't like then just leave" as they don't have to give anyone citizenship if they don't want to or feel it will benefit the country.

And not to sound rude, but if you don't have a working history or a job that makes you pay taxes in Ireland then to them your contribution is not as significant as someone who does have those things and maybe that's also a reason your application has taken a bit longer.

This of course is all my opinion, as you never know with these public offices. For all we know your file got lost in a pile and the delay has nothing to do with you out your history.

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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:40 pm

masterboy123 wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:06 pm
I don't mean to piss you, but actually leaving no public trace could be a negative factor. :|
A work history and paying taxes is always considered to be helpful.
pissedoffbyinis wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:02 pm
Applied in mid 2017 and still waiting.... a house wife and never worked in Pakistan nor in Ireland.. no driving history ... what checks they have to carry out?? the whole process is hilarious :)
Were you on a stamp 3 dependant visa by any chance? I know stamp 3 holders are not allowed to work on their own.

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