Marrying an Overstayer... Need Help Please

lemoneye · Post by **lemoneye** » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:20 pm

Hello,

I will try to make things short and concise. I am a romanian living and working in UK legally since January 2017. May this year I applied for pre-settled status and I got it in 2 days. I live on my own, paying taxes, council tax, rent, car insurance and so on. In January 2019 I have met the love of my life in London. Now comes the problem: she is a national of El Salvador which came on a tourist Visa in January 2018. Of course her visa expired and she is working as a cooker/cleaner illegally for a wealthy family in London which doesn't want to help her with legalizing her status, but since she must provide for her child, she still stays with them as she doesn't have any other option. We fell in love and want to get married. As she is an over stayer in UK, we will not risk doing that in UK. We want to go in Romania to get married and after she can apply from Romania to the EU settlement scheme family permit from Romania. We are getting now ready all the documents needed. I have a couple of questions which are worrying me:

1. When going to the airport in UK to travel to Romania what will happen when they check her passport and see that she has overstayed her tourist visa? Will they ask questions but let her go to Romania? Do they check exiting people for overstaying?
2. After getting married in Romania we want to apply for the EU family member settlement scheme, will her expired tourist visa have a negative impact on the application?
3. I have to return to work after 1 month in Romania, I cannot stay more, I read the law that the wife of an EU citizen can accompany him back to UK even without the family permit and if that is so? They cannot deny her entry in UK with an english translated and legalized marriage certificate right?
4.Anybody knows how much time it takes for the EUSS family permit to arrive in Romania and can my mother take it and sent it for her in UK?
5. If any if you have the EUSS family permit form can you please post it here for me and also the documents needed for it? Would me much appreciated.

Please if you can help me in any way with these questions I would be eternally grateful.

Zerubbabel · Post by **Zerubbabel** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:10 am

Hello

With my wife, we were exactly in the same situation 6 years ago. Myself EEA and herself with non-EEA without even a passport (she lost the passport she used to get in the UK).

However, at the time we were living together for 5 years and she wasn't working during that time. We got married in the UK (it raised some eyebrows) and then she got a 5-year EEA card. At the time, they weren't supposed to inform the Home Office but they might have done it because they asked about my wife's immigration status and I made it clear that she was illegally in the country but she still has the right to marry (7 days residence required only). But Home Office, if informed at all, did nothing to prevent us from getting married.

Each case is different indeed. And also immigration laws change all the time, so an experience here and then might not be fully translatable to another case.

When you leave the UK, you give an advance passenger information to the airline company and this is relayed to the Home Office computers. I heard about a few people going to back to their country on expired visas, but nobody told them anything. However, the Home Office is still aware about it. When leaving through airports, usually you see only the airline and the security. Immigration is not involved directly (you don't go through immigration to leave as in many countries).

The family employing your partner cannot do anything to help with immigration. They are employing her illegally and doing something illegal and punishable by law.

What about the child? Is he in Salvador? In the UK? What's his status?

Also, does she need a visa to go to Romania?

lemoneye · Post by **lemoneye** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:48 pm

Thank you very much for your answer.
Her child is in El Salvador, she sends money to her sister who is taking care of the child.
She does not need a visa to enter Romania, only tourist visa stamp will be put for 90 days and she can get married with that tourist visa in my home country.

"When you leave the UK, you give an advance passenger information to the airline company and this is relayed to the Home Office computers." So if I understand correctly, you are saying I must call the airline company before we go at the airport in London and give information to the company about my girlfriend and that she is an overstayer?

Also, do you know something related to these other questions? Much appreciated.

After getting married in Romania we want to apply for the EU family member settlement scheme, will her expired tourist visa have a negative impact on the application?

I have to return to work after 1 month in Romania, I cannot stay more, I read the law that the wife of an EU citizen can accompany him back to UK even without the family permit and if that is so? They cannot deny her entry in UK with an english translated and legalized marriage certificate right?

Zerubbabel · Post by **Zerubbabel** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:12 pm

"When you leave the UK, you give an advance passenger information to the airline company and this is relayed to the Home Office computers." So if I understand correctly, you are saying I must call the airline company before we go at the airport in London and give information to the company about my girlfriend and that she is an overstayer?

No, you don't call them and you don't tell them she is an over stayer.

When you buy a ticket online, you will see that you can't do the check-in without entering some information on the system such as Name, DOB, passport number, expiry date... etc. This information is passed to the Home Office.

In Romania, if the Immigration Officer is a bit awake that day, he/she might notice that your partner was illegally in the UK. Because they will see that she doesn't have a valid visa for the UK and some may go to such extent as to ask to see any UK residence or something. Otherwise, they will deduce she was an overstayer in the UK and may question her further about her intentions in Romania. I have already seen people questioned around these lines in some countries. But it doesn't happen all the time.

Again, it's not their business that she is an over stayer in the UK, but if it they infer this, they can make any deductions they want.

For the UK, she may get an entry ban of 1 to 10 years. However, this ban shouldn't be effective for application for family visa.

You can read this:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ans-v7.pdf

lemoneye · Post by **lemoneye** » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:29 pm

Any other opinions please? I am desperate, where should I ask for more answers?

iwolga · Post by **iwolga** » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:07 pm

I have to return to work after 1 month in Romania, I cannot stay more, I read the law that the wife of an EU citizen can accompany him back to UK even without the family permit and if that is so? They cannot deny her entry in UK with an english translated and legalized marriage certificate right?

Only through English Channel. Airlines will most likely deny her boarding or HO will not be happy with her on board after receiving API.

Your wife will need her passport to apply for EEA FP, so how will she be travelling with you at all?

iwolga · Post by **iwolga** » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:11 pm

I would also check if she can apply later from Romania for EEA FP. It is a possibility she can only apply from her home country.

askmeplz82 · Post by **askmeplz82** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:28 am

"They cannot deny her entry in UK with an english translated and legalized marriage certificate right? "

Yes they can . Immigration office can say things like .

-- she was illegal in the Uk then she left to get married in Romania and soon after marriage she is coming back .. that will tigger bell. they will say this is sham marriage or marriage of convenience .

-- it is not so easy just to travel with marriage certificate .. The Border controls are the same for air, sea and train. but you can try your luck

Zerubbabel · Post by **Zerubbabel** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:42 am

Check this out:

eea-route-applications/non-eu-wife-with ... 87931.html

The lady is:

- Married to a British national
- Lives in Netherlands on valid EEA family member card
- Has adverse immigration history in the UK (applied for asylum then canceled her application)

Read the topic

iibdii · Post by **iibdii** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:40 pm

Just a thought can she not move with you start living together and get some bills on her name in your address.
Apply for EU Settlement scheme and as soon as she gets COA get married in UK to avoid any surprises. You might get a month or two gap in job but it will be cheaper than you leaving for a month traveling etc?

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:10 am

iibdii wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:40 pm
get married in UK to avoid any surprises

Marriages between non-British citizens can only take place in certain designated Registries. And the Registry is required to notify the Home office of such marriages, who can increase the marriage notice period from 28 days to 70 days. They could interview both members of the couple separately and decide for themselves if the marriage was a sham marriage or one of convenience or one to circumvent the Rules. There was also a case a while ago where the Home Office arrived just before the wedding to deport the member of the couple who was illegally resident.

The OP's plans to marry in Romania are much wiser. I would suggest applying for an EEA FP after the marriage. Keep in mind that the non-EEA spouse will not be eligible for British citizenship anyway for 10 years after the time her illegal residence in the UK comes to an end.

lemoneye · Post by **lemoneye** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:16 pm

secret.simon wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:10 am

iibdii wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:40 pm
get married in UK to avoid any surprises
Marriages between non-British citizens can only take place in certain designated Registries. And the Registry is required to notify the Home office of such marriages, who can increase the marriage notice period from 28 days to 70 days. They could interview both members of the couple separately and decide for themselves if the marriage was a sham marriage or one of convenience or one to circumvent the Rules. There was also a case a while ago where the Home Office arrived just before the wedding to deport the member of the couple who was illegally resident.

The OP's plans to marry in Romania are much wiser. I would suggest applying for an EEA FP after the marriage. Keep in mind that the non-EEA spouse will not be eligible for British citizenship anyway for 10 years after the time her illegal residence in the UK comes to an end.

Thank you mate, so after marriage to apply immediately for EU family permit and for her to wait in Romania for the permit to arrive? Or should we try to go back together with a legalized marriage certificate in English to UK and apply EU treaty rights?

iwolga · Post by **iwolga** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:36 pm

I doubt she’ll be admitted to board the plane so unless you want to try the tunnel together, it is wiser to wait in Romania for FP

Kelz1929 · Post by **Kelz1929** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:02 am

I would like to share my experience with you.
I came to the U.K. on a visitors visa in 2015. In 2017 I met my husband. We dated for a few months moved in together June 2018. 2019 we decided to get married. But we couldn’t do it in the U.K. because I was an overstayer and we didn’t want to risk me being detained or worse being deported. July 2019 we decided to travel to my home country to get married there. I had no issues at the airport at all. Even though I was scared I maybe questioned by immigration officers. We got to my home country got married on the 6th of July . On the 10 of July I had my biometrics, a day after that I received an email to say my application was received in Sheffield. Then the wait began. On the 12th working day I received an email to say my application was not straight forward. After I hit the 15days of waiting. I got in contact with the contract centre and escalated my case they told me I had to wait for 15working days from the day of escalation. On the 13th of August they sent an email requesting to interview me and my husband who was still with me in my home country at the time. We were scheduled to be interviewed on the 22nd of August simultaneously. The interview didn’t go so well because 3 questions were misunderstood so we gave 2 different answers for each question, at that moment I lost hope I knew I wasn’t going to be granted the visa. On the 15th of September I received an email saying my passport was ready to be Collected. Picked it up the same day and I was granted the visa. We were so happy. Try your luck and apply. All the best you and your other half.

lemoneye · Post by **lemoneye** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:21 pm

Hello,

Me (romanian) and my girlfriend (from El Salvador) plan on going in Romania to get married soon. I have pre settled status, pay bills, rent and all that since 3 years ago in UK. My questions are:

1. Does it matter if she applies for the family permit in my home country and she will wait for it in Romania before coming with me to UK? Also is it ok if she makes biometrics appointment in Romania? It does not matter that she is just a tourist in Romania?

2. It says in the goverment application guide that the marriage must be legal by UK laws and document to prove that they ask. What does that mean?

A valid document of record of a marriage recognised under the law of England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or of the Islands.

lemoneye · Post by **lemoneye** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:43 pm

If the marriage is legal with a legal marriage certificate in Romania which is a EU country does it not automatically imply it will be legal also in UK? or there is another document needed except being legalized and translated in english?

kamoe · Post by **kamoe** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:39 pm

lemoneye wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:21 pm
1. Does it matter if she applies for the family permit in my home country and she will wait for it in Romania before coming with me to UK? Also is it ok if she makes biometrics appointment in Romania? It does not matter that she is just a tourist in Romania?

As far as I understand, there is no restriction on what country you can apply for a Family Permit.

2. It says in the goverment application guide that the marriage must be legal by UK laws and document to prove that they ask. What does that mean?

I might be oversimplifying this, but as far as I interpret that sentence, that is, above all, code for: "The marriage should not be solely an Islamic marriage".

This is because in Muslim countries people can just get married only by the church (Islamic marriage) and are not obliged to also formalize the union via a civil marriage. Whereas in other countries, even if you do get married by the church, you have to sign the papers that formalize a civil marriage, otherwise your marriage is not recognized in that country.

So, what this all means is, if you are Muslim, don't forget that you need to have formalized your marriage outside of just a church/Islamic marriage, as only a religious certificate is NOT legal in the UK.

If you are not a Muslim, it's just pretty much business as usual.

A valid document of record of a marriage recognised under the law of England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or of the Islands.

In your case, as long as it's a legal marriage recognized in Romania, it should be legally recognized in the UK. You'll probably find a specialized translation company that can do all translation/certification/authentication paperwork needed on top, for you in Romania.

lemoneye · Post by **lemoneye** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:13 pm

Hello. I will try to be short and concise. I plan on travelling to Romania in a few weeks with my non EU girlfriend who has overstayed in UK for almost 2 years, that is why we get married in Romania and not in the UK, because a solicitor said that it would be risky to go on that path. After we get married in Romania we plan on applying for the EU family permit settlement scheme for her. I already have presettled status since I am living and working in the UK since 3 years ago.
The questions I have would be:

1. Is there any problem relating to Brexit knowing that UK leaves the EU on 31st of January and the family permit would surely not be ready by then?

2. Should we apply at the same time for EU family permit and is it possible to apply for both at the same time?

3. It concerns me that her divorce paper was released in November and we get married in January and after we apply straight away for the family permit, would the case worker consider this a marriage of convenience even though we have proof of a 1 year relationship and we will send photos of proof and that we love each other should we also send a letter explaining our situation or what else should we send as proof in the application?

4. I read that with a certified translated marriage certificate we are Exercising EU treaty rights since i am working continuously in the UK for 3 years and are married she can join me as a spouse even without family permit, if that is so, can she apply from inside the UK for the family permit after she gets her Code 1A stamp on the passport? or what route is there for her after she gets in UK with me by just exercising tready rights? Kind regards,

Obee786 · Post by **Obee786** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:24 pm

lemoneye wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:20 pm
Hello,

I will try to make things short and concise. I am a romanian living and working in UK legally since January 2017. May this year I applied for pre-settled status and I got it in 2 days. I live on my own, paying taxes, council tax, rent, car insurance and so on. In January 2019 I have met the love of my life in London. Now comes the problem: she is a national of El Salvador which came on a tourist Visa in January 2018. Of course her visa expired and she is working as a cooker/cleaner illegally for a wealthy family in London which doesn't want to help her with legalizing her status, but since she must provide for her child, she still stays with them as she doesn't have any other option. We fell in love and want to get married. As she is an over stayer in UK, we will not risk doing that in UK. We want to go in Romania to get married and after she can apply from Romania to the EU settlement scheme family permit from Romania. We are getting now ready all the documents needed. I have a couple of questions which are worrying me:

1. When going to the airport in UK to travel to Romania what will happen when they check her passport and see that she has overstayed her tourist visa? Will they ask questions but let her go to Romania? Do they check exiting people for overstaying?
2. After getting married in Romania we want to apply for the EU family member settlement scheme, will her expired tourist visa have a negative impact on the application?
3. I have to return to work after 1 month in Romania, I cannot stay more, I read the law that the wife of an EU citizen can accompany him back to UK even without the family permit and if that is so? They cannot deny her entry in UK with an english translated and legalized marriage certificate right?
4.Anybody knows how much time it takes for the EU Settlement Scheme family permit to arrive in Romania and can my mother take it and sent it for her in UK?
5. If any if you have the EU Settlement Scheme family permit form can you please post it here for me and also the documents needed for it? Would me much appreciated.

Please if you can help me in any way with these questions I would be eternally grateful.

You don’t need to go anywhere
If she has valid passport go to registry office and book your marriage. You know each other very well so if interview is called you guys can prove your relation is genuine. You can get married in uk. And within 2-3 months she can apply for eu scheme.

kamoe · Post by **kamoe** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:22 pm

lemoneye wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:13 pm
1. Is there any problem relating to Brexit knowing that UK leaves the EU on 31st of January and the family permit would surely not be ready by then?

After Brexit, all still-valid EEA Residence Cards will see their validity cut short to December 2020 (or their printed expiration date, whichever is earlier). There is no information regarding the impact on Brexit for the validity of EEA Family Permits, and here is why: Presumably,the last EEA Family Permits will be issued on or before Brexit day, let's say, 31st January 2020, which makes their expiration date be 31 July 2020, as they are only valid for 6 months. Pointless to make any reference to the December 2020 cutoff validity since that is not cutting short the latest possible EEA Family Permit validity in any way.

As long as you apply for a EEA Family Permit before Brexit day, one could assume, that these will be valid post-Brexit, since EEA Residence cards will be valid in 2020.

2. Should we apply at the same time for EU family permit and is it possible to apply for both at the same time?

You can definitely apply directly for the EU Family Permit. You might not be able to apply for both at the same time though, as they are usually completely different processes processed by completely different teams, and require the passport (which cannot be in two places at one). Since the objective of the Family Permit is purely to allow your wife entry into the UK, it is only valid for 6 months, and requires a further application for a biometric card afterwards, it redundant to apply for both. Pick one type of Family Permit and apply for that one only.

3. It concerns me that her divorce paper was released in November and we get married in January and after we apply straight away for the family permit, would the case worker consider this a marriage of convenience even though we have proof of a 1 year relationship and we will send photos of proof and that we love each other should we also send a letter explaining our situation or what else should we send as proof in the application?

A recent divorce or marriage does not necessarily mean your application will be refused. It will give grounds for scrutiny, but given a strong and well documented story, you have a case for succedding.

4. I read that with a certified translated marriage certificate we are Exercising EU treaty rights since i am working continuously in the UK for 3 years and are married she can join me as a spouse even without family permit, if that is so, can she apply from inside the UK for the family permit after she gets her Code 1A stamp on the passport? or what route is there for her after she gets in UK with me by just exercising tready rights? Kind regards,

Theoretically, she can, but not all airlines are happy to accept people who do not have a visible visa or entry permit to the UK. The best practice is always to obtain a Family Permit, unless insurmountable obstacles prevent you from doing it. In other words, do not bank on being able to travel without a Family Permit. Some people cannot.

Also, having obtained a Family Permit looks better and more consistent when making the future application for a biometric card your wife will have to make. No real reason not to at least try it.

iwolga · Post by **iwolga** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:16 pm

There is no information regarding the impact on Brexit for the validity of EEA Family Permits, and here is why: Presumably,the last EEA Family Permits will be issued on or before Brexit day, let's say, 31st January 2020, which makes their expiration date be 31 July 2020, as they are only valid for 6 months.

You are right saying that we don't know. One can also speculate that the last application for the card will be accepted on or before Brexit day.

Again, hard to say when the last EEA RC will be issued. As a person waiting for one from October 2019, I hope that HO will clear all backlog before cancelling the scheme.

After Brexit, all still-valid EEA Residence Cards will see their validity cut short to December 2020 (or their printed expiration date, whichever is earlier).

Somehow (and I'm happy to be corrected here), my understanding was that a holder of EEA RC expiring - say - in Jan 2021 is good till Jan 2021 with the same plastic card IF he/she applies for online EU Settlement status before Dec 2020 AND receives this status.

In other words, EEA RC will only be substituted once they reach expiration day but will only be valid along with online status after Dec 2020.

kamoe · Post by **kamoe** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:38 am

iwolga wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:16 pm
Somehow (and I'm happy to be corrected here), my understanding was that a holder of EEA RC expiring - say - in Jan 2021 is good till Jan 2021 with the same plastic card IF he/she applies for online EU Settlement status before Dec 2020 AND receives this status.

In other words, EEA RC will only be substituted once they reach expiration day but will only be valid along with online status after Dec 2020.

I've seen some suggestions of this being the case on this forum, but so far I have not found a definite written confirmation or statement from the Home Office saying this is the case. If it is, why this is not clearly and beyond doubt spelled out on the Settlement Scheme website is beyond my understanding.

I believe the safest thing to do is to apply to convert one's EEA RC into a Settlement Status card, on time for the December 2020 cut off date.

iwolga · Post by **iwolga** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:55 am

kamoe wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:38 am

iwolga wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:16 pm
Somehow (and I'm happy to be corrected here), my understanding was that a holder of EEA RC expiring - say - in Jan 2021 is good till Jan 2021 with the same plastic card IF he/she applies for online EU Settlement status before Dec 2020 AND receives this status.

In other words, EEA RC will only be substituted once they reach expiration day but will only be valid along with online status after Dec 2020.
I've seen some suggestions of this being the case on this forum, but so far I have not found a definite written confirmation or statement from the Home Office saying this is the case. If it is, why this is not clearly and beyond doubt spelled out on the Settlement Scheme website is beyond my understanding.

I believe the safest thing to do is to apply to convert one's EEA RC into a Settlement Status card, on time for the December 2020 cut off date.

There are quite a few things beyond my understanding with current HO processes. While I agree that what you say is the safest route, it’s also not really clearly described on gov website. The requirement to get settlement status is clear, yes. Not the need to go to this page and update your card.

We shall see what next couple of months (and today) bring us

kamoe · Post by **kamoe** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:49 pm

iwolga wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:55 am
The requirement to get settlement status is clear, yes. Not the need to go to this page and update your card.

It's still in BETA so not yet an official procedure. You can use it, but as you say, it is not mandatory.

My wild guess is that once the BETA stage is complete, nearer the cut off date of December 2020, and still with sufficient time to process an avalanche of applications, probably second quarter of 2020, this card conversion procedure will be more widely publicized directly from the Settled Status page, or as part of the information package you receive when applying to the scheme and receiving your status confirmation.

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