Stages Of Retention

Thanks @Mal111 you are star man.. thnk a million.

also just remember date of initiation of divorce is the key point and deciding factor of your retention
you must! be able to show that at the point of initiation of your divorce ur spouse was in ireland and was working

Little Update on EU 5 Application with TimeLine. Hope its going in positive direction.

-> Submit application To Department 10-Sep-2018 (Just Document Related to me. e.g. my p60, my bills, my Bank Statement etc)
-> Requested Decree By Department on 19-Sep-2018
-> Decree Sent To Dept on 10-OCT-18
-> Requested wife Documents By Department 19-Oct-2018 (4 working Weeks Time)
-> Requested Doc Submitted To Dept on 16-Nov-18
-> Acknowledgement Received By Department on 22-Nov-18 ( The Enclose therein have been added to your client's file. A decision will issue on your clients application in due course)

is that's it or they will ask more documents !!

Hi All: I have one small tricky question, my retention application is in process, wondering can I apply for Citizen application as my citizen application time is over due and retention application is still in process from last 13 months and now they send me Temp stamp 4 for next 4 months..

I saw the INIS site and I didn't find the answer, all what I saw if you are in state for number of days, with reckonable stamp you are eligible to apply citizen application..

would really appreciate your thoughts..

Hi all,

today I'm so dishearten after 16 months I got refusal letter for my Retention application.

can't believe this, as she was in Ireland doing job and exercising her rights. On same letter they accept she was working in 2014, 2017,2018 and also said she wasn't exercising her rights.. below were the main documents, which was enough for any sensible person to know, she was in state or not.. Not sure they even try to authenticate any of that document..

Payslips before, between and After divorce. (She was working in 2014,2017,2018)
Medical insurances for current and previous years.
Doctor recipes for Current And Previous Years.
Dentist Recipes
Joint bank Account statements for previous 5 years, last Account balance was 15K (Active)
GYM card with her photo.
Social Welfare Letter collected be herself was also stamp and dated.
Matter Hospital reports after divorce.
Bills for previous 5 years
PRTB, Lease for previous 5 years..


There response:
"However, information available to the minister, from the Polish Authorities, indicate that the EU citizen Mis. XYZ has been residing in Poland from 2014 to 2018. In that regards, please be advised that Regulation 27(1) of the regulation provides that the Minister may revoke or refuse to grant as the case may be a right of residence in the state where he decides that right is being claimed on the basis of fraud or abuse of rights. please note that abuse of rights includes a marriage of continence."

If she wasn't in the state then they should provide the Dates when she left Ireland, they way how they do with Other applicants??

Not sure what else should I provide?? spoke to solicitor and she said her statement might help..

will really appreciate if anyone can suggest anything..


Thanks,
Kind Regards

finalversion_2k wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:09 am

Hi, I was married to EU citizen for 4Years & 3months. from last couple of months our relationship was almost finish and we decide to apply for divorce. so we applied for divorce in Baltic state. On first hearing as we husband & wife both were agree court give the divorce decision.

Problem: when I saw the copy of decision 'In what circumstances' section was mentioning that we are living apart from each other since mid 2015 and after that she moved back to her Baltic country. which is completely wrong, I talked to solicitor representator about this error and he said we added this just to make divorce process quicker and easier. I asked them it's completely against me and not something what I want, so I don't know but try to change this as I have month period to review/appeal against the decision.

I know one of the Retention requirement is she should be in state and exercising her rights. Any Suggestion that divorce decision can impact on retention?

It is now clear why the department refused your application

@Obie do you think thats the case/Issue??

If I assume if thats the case then do I fell in chencholliah case??

Your solicitor can request INIS to provide any evidence they have to conclude your wife was residing outside Ireland (freedom of information). Probably it would be something from the embassy of her country of origin.
In my case I had provided several affidavits from my wife but INIS disregarded those.

Thanks @kupuser so means affidavit will not help.. may I ask how you sort this issue then??

finalversion_2k wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:04 pm

@Obie do you think thats the case/Issue??

If I assume if thats the case then do I fell in chencholliah case??

The difficulties is, if they conclude that it was a marriage of convenience, which worries me more than them saying she left the state, then Chenchooliah is not engaged.

I am of the view that Chencholliah does not apply in marriage of convenience cases.

Applicant must work hard to remove that stain from their case, at any cost.

Below are word to word of letter..


Based on the information available, the Minister is of the opinion that the EU citizen may not have been excising their rights through employment, self employment, the pursuit of a course of study, involuntary employment or the possession of the sufficient resources in accordance with Regulation 6(3) of the regulations up to the date of initiation of divorce proceedings as claimed and therefor intends to refuse your application for retention of your residence card..

her more the minister has concerns that the documentation you provided in support of your application evidence the residence and exercise of rights of your EU citizen spouse in this state is false and misleading as to the material fact. The Minister also has concerns that you knowingly submitted this documentation in order to obtain a right of residence which you otherwise not enjoy. this institutes a fraudulent act within the meaning of Regulation and Directive, which provides that the state may refuse, terminate or withdraw any rights conferred under the Directive 'in the case of right or fraud, such as marriages of convenience'

This is found the case, the Minister will proceed to revoke your permission to remain in accordance of the provision of Regulation 27(1) of the Regulations.

Addition to the above, based on the assessment of your application to date, the Minister also has concern that your marriage may be one of the convenience, which was contracted for the sole purpose of gaining a derived right of free movement and residence under EU Law which would not otherwise joy..

if this is found to be the case, the Minister may deem your marriage to be the one of convenience in accordance with Regulation 28 of Regulations. As such the residence card which was granted to you for period of five years, valid to 12/10/2019 under the provisions of the regulation and the Directive may also be deemed to be invalid from the outlet..

you are now invited to make written representation to this office, addressing the concerns the Minster has laid out, within 21 days of the date of issue of the letter. such representation should state why your application for retention of residence card should not be refused. why you permission to remain should not be revoked. to dismiss concerns that you have engaged in a contrived activity in order to obtain a residence card and to address the issue of your submission of false and misleading information so this office.. you are also requested to address the Minster's concerns that your merriage may be one of convenience..

Those are serious allegations, which if correct are very damaging. Although I must say, based on past experience, that this will not be the first time the minister would have made baseless allegation.

@Obie In first Para: they are saying she wasn't exercising her EU treaty right so that's why refused (whereas she was working before, between and after divorce, she was also medical insured, 15K in joint account) Honestly to me it sounds little weird..

second Para: documents are fake.. how fake call or visit all those peoples. visit them and check the camera footage.

fourth Para: IF this is found to be the case.. Does that mean they are assuming??

Fifth Para: address the Minster's concerns that your marriage may be one of convenience.. May be one of..

@Obie I saw so many real revocation letters, they mention Date and times when and where EU citizen fly, when she left the state etc etc.. but here nothing..

@Obie : would you please tell me what are my rights?? was married and issued stamp4EUfam, get divorced, apply retention application, 5 year visa expire, currently on temp stamp... and now they Revoked my Expired permissions, and tell me my marriage was shame marriage..

finalversion_2k wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:30 pm

Thanks @kupuser so means affidavit will not help.. may I ask how you sort this issue then??

When my review was refused I applied section 3 application and requested them to grant me temporary permission to allow me to apply for a Critical Skills work permit. I was given 6 months temp permission (stamp 1) to do so by INIS. Later I successfully applied the permit.

Disappointing news.
Kupuser s advice is good.
Or else do you have any pictures with your ex spouse in ireland? You might want to submit them to show the genuineness of the relationship. If they disregard them, go with the work permit option. I think you mentioned once that your job is good.

Thanks @kupuser I read all your post and your case history.. you gave nice advice..

@Alixlboy : they ignore her medical history of 2 different gps, her medical tests report of matter hospital, dentists and social welfare letter which she recieved by personally visiting social office by hand, her gym membership.. do you think they will accept pics of together?? Yes I can apply for work permit but for that need valid stamp.. currently they revoked my current permission..

Spoke to solicitor she discussed with another barrister and both said it's very odd, you submit everything what can assure she was here and exercising her rights. Second if someone did shame marriage why they will divorce and apply retention.. now have appointment on Thursday, solicitor is planning to put appeal decision.. not sure it's right or not.. not sure it's right or not..

finalversion_2k wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:24 pm

Thanks @kupuser I read all your post and your case history.. you gave nice advice..

@Alixlboy : they ignore her medical history of 2 different gps, her medical tests report of matter hospital, dentists and social welfare letter which she recieved by personally visiting social office by hand, her gym membership.. do you think they will accept pics of together?? Yes I can apply for work permit but for that need valid stamp.. currently they revoked my current permission..

Spoke to solicitor she discussed with another barrister and both said it's very odd, you submit everything what can assure she was here and exercising her rights. Second if someone did shame marriage why they will divorce and apply retention.. now have appointment on Thursday, solicitor is planning to put appeal decision.. not sure it's right or not.. not sure it's right or not..

If you make an appeal and fight, they will have to give you some sort of temporary stamp and then you can apply for work permit.
INIS are being overly unreasonable with everyone, which is stupid and not understandable.
Just dont worry and dont give up.
My friend was in the same situation and he asked for a temporary stamp, which he got and he has also been travelling on that.
Plus he also applied for citizenship at the same time.
You may have to write to them for this. Also talk to your solicitor about this.

My full support is with you bro. Our old friends Mal and Usman are missing for quite some time. I do hope that everything is okay with them.

Alixlboy wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:28 pm

My full support is with you bro. Our old friends Mal and Usman are missing for quite some time. I do hope that everything is okay with them.

Ali bai Nothing special after DOJ refused EU3 still fight with this, seystem I got temporary stamp and review still on going .at the moment department dealing every one unfairly without any logic in my case they saying I manipulated documents to rights in state and my ex since 2007 till now never leave state and doing exercise after 2 years of my divorce my Ex gave statement that I'm not living with her .
DOJ saying my marriage is marriage is convenience.
Thanks for remembering

usmanch313 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:18 pm

Alixlboy wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:28 pm

My full support is with you bro. Our old friends Mal and Usman are missing for quite some time. I do hope that everything is okay with them.

Ali bai Nothing special after DOJ refused EU3 still fight with this, seystem I got temporary stamp and review still on going .at the moment department dealing every one unfairly without any logic in my case they saying I manipulated documents to rights in state and my ex since 2007 till now never leave state and doing exercise after 2 years of my divorce my Ex gave statement that I'm not living with her .
DOJ saying my marriage is marriage is convenience.
Thanks for remembering

Good to hear from you bro.
God willing, everything will be fine. DOJ badly need to change their unfair treatment towards genuine people.

Thanks @Alixlboy your words mean a lot bro..

Yesterday I met solicitor and review FOI and Refusal letter together.. I sort out FOI Index page in date order.. there are lots of strange things we found.. For example I submit application on 12/09/2018 and on 13/09/2018 Next day clerk recommend to refuse my application, letter is in FOI file with date Another interesting thing they refused and revoke my stamp on basis of polish Authority email which was received on 05/10/2018 means after almost 3 weeks after my application.. means they refused my application already before Polish Authority response.. and still asking me for documents for 15 Months.. they are definitely discriminating and doing stupid things to prevent us to be on right track..

How do you know the clerk had rejected your case ??
Dont you think they were investigating your marriage even after the polish embassy e-mail ??

If they had taken a decision beforehand than they wouldn't give you any temporary permission to reside.

Did you find out on what grounds do the polish embassy thinks that your ex.spouse was residing in poland ?

Exactly that's what I mean. we find out very Odd/strange after comparing with FOI..

@griffith : My solicitor request FOI.. and In FOI there is one letter Recommendation Refusal .. they can investigate as long as they want.. I believe temp permission is your right if case is delaying from their side, retention time mentioned on ther website is 6 months if they are delaying then they should have to issue you temp stamp..

I spoke to solicitor today and she believe its strong case of Abusing of right .. she also trying to get that Polish embassy letter..

It may help if the EU citizen can come out and say, this is not correct, I was residing in the state.


In JR the court is simply asking itself if the minister acted reasonably in refusing as opposed to the merits of the case.