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Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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MedievalStrawberry
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Botswana

Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by MedievalStrawberry » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:50 pm

Hi, I live in the UK and am about to apply for my British Citizenship. I have the option to apply through descent or naturalisation, the one being very much cheaper than the other (difference of +£1,000). Neither decision will affect my children's nationality and choices, and I have no intention of having anymore children. However, I have a foreign partner still living abroad and we are not yet married. Will my choice affect any entitlements he has in the UK once we are married and he wants to move here (as it does a child's entitlements)? Thank you.

JoeCross
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Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by JoeCross » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:54 pm

No, Citizenship is equal for all - no matter how it's obtained. Otherwise, it will be breach of fundamental rights of the democracy, which states that all men and women are equal. :)

So the rights are the same, yes. And for your future husband, the rules for bringing him in will be the same.

MedievalStrawberry
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Botswana

Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by MedievalStrawberry » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:01 pm

Thank you for your quick response, I shall go for the less expensive option then :D

Richard W
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Location: Stevenage

Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by Richard W » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:22 pm

JoeCross wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:54 pm
No, Citizenship is equal for all - no matter how it's obtained. Otherwise, it will be breach of fundamental rights of the democracy, which states that all men and women are equal. :)
It is far from unknown for naturalised citizens to have lesser political rights. What is true is that citizenship by naturalisation and citizenship by descent by registration currently differ only in the rights of retention and of transmission to descendants.

At present the difference does not matter for immigration and naturalisation matters.

AnotherUUID
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Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by AnotherUUID » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:57 pm

Richard W wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:22 pm
It is far from unknown for naturalised citizens to have lesser political rights.
What do you mean by "lesser political rights"? Any "lesser" treatment (if proven) is considered discriminatory and is an offence. If you refer to the special case of dual nationals when in the country of their other nationality, that's a well known special circumstance which I wouldn't personally classify as "lesser political rights" and, if it really is a problem for the holder, this case is easily circumvented by renouncing the other citizenship(s) when possible.
Richard W wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:22 pm
citizenship by naturalisation and citizenship by descent by registration currently differ ... in the rights of retention
Could you elaborate on "rights of retention"? Once granted, citizenship is not exactly easy to lose / revoke on a whim "just because".

Richard W
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Location: Stevenage

Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by Richard W » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:26 pm

AnotherUUID wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:57 pm
Richard W wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:22 pm
It is far from unknown for naturalised citizens to have lesser political rights.
What do you mean by "lesser political rights"? Any "lesser" treatment (if proven) is considered discriminatory and is an offence.
A well-known example is that only 'natural born citizens' of the USA can be their president.
AnotherUUID wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:57 pm
Richard W wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:22 pm
citizenship by naturalisation and citizenship by descent by registration currently differ ... in the rights of retention
Could you elaborate on "rights of retention"? Once granted, citizenship is not exactly easy to lose / revoke on a whim "just because".
Recently a hundred British citizens a year have been losing British citizenship for intolerable misbehaviour, e.g. fighting for ISIS. For bad enough behaviour, someone who is only naturalised as British may be rendered stateless if it appears that they will be able to acquire some other citizenship. Someone who is British by some other route can only be deprived of British citizenship if they will not thereby be rendered de jure stateless. (The British courts have to interpret foreign laws - they are reluctant to believe other governments' assertions that some undesirable is not their citizen.)

AnotherUUID
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Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by AnotherUUID » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:54 pm

Richard W wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:26 pm
A well-known example is that only 'natural born citizens' of the USA can be their president.
This is true in general, however, I do not see how this applies to the UK as I am not aware of any such policies applicable to British citizens in the UK.
Richard W wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:26 pm
Recently a hundred British citizens a year have been losing British citizenship for intolerable misbehaviour, e.g. fighting for ISIS. For bad enough behaviour, someone who is only naturalised as British may be rendered stateless if it appears that they will be able to acquire some other citizenship. Someone who is British by some other route can only be deprived of British citizenship if they will not thereby be rendered de jure stateless. (The British courts have to interpret foreign laws - they are reluctant to believe other governments' assertions that some undesirable is not their citizen.)
I would consider these as edge case scenarios, usually involving fairly radical behaviour on behalf of the person. If a person is getting involved into acts of terrorism and the like, I feel losing their citizenship isn't exactly at the top of their priorities list.

For those of good character there is practically no difference in their retention rights.

This doesn't mean I agree with the policy at all. The developments and changes to the rules for deprivation of citizenship, over the last decade in particular, and the trend of exercising such powers set a very worrying precedent indeed which is a topic on its own very much worth the discussion. The cheeky way by which notice is given in ways that the person may not even be made aware, let alone be able to exercise their right to appeal (e.g. if abroad and their passport is cancelled as a result of deprivation) is also not good. Neither is the broad wording of deprivation being "conducive to the public good" and behaviour in a "manner which is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom, any of the Islands, or any British overseas territory" which are open to interpretation, despite appearing to only suggest "extreme" actions.

However, it's not just naturalised citizens that are at such risk. The case for someone not being made stateless can often be easily made if a link can be made between the citizen in question and their heritage. There are countries that allow the acquisition of citizenship jus sanguinis going back an indefinite number of generations so long as there is sufficient proof of lineage. I believe this was the case in one of the deprivations made in 2019 where the person had a rightful claim to British citizenship and yet was deprived. This opens the door to 2nd (and further) generation Britons being deprived of their citizenship despite not personally having any existing ties to any other country. In fact, they may not even be aware of their own lineage (I most certainly am not going further than my grandparents).

Yet, the burden of having sufficient proof of lineage (as per the other country's national laws) to acquire said other citizenship may be put entirely on the person, rendering them stateless. Not to mention that, in cases of severe crimes, some other country that a person may have a claim to citizenship may refuse to grant it on a basis similar to the good character requirement in the UK, effectively leaving the person in stateless limbo.

IMO the issue of deprivation - the means and reasons in particular - is far more concerning as a whole than just to naturalised Britons, especially if trends continue.

vaza
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Cayman Islands

Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by vaza » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:29 pm

The OP mentioned child's rights and there is a difference.

Child born abroad to a parent, who is citizen by descent, is not born British citizen.

Child born abroad to a parent, who is citizen other than by descent (including naturalisation), is born British citizen.

If the child is born in the UK, there is no difference.

Also there may be a timing issue if you prove you've become citizen by descent retrospectively. If you naturalize you become citizen at the ceremony.

There are some further wrinkles. I think a child not born citizen may be able to register after living some years in the UK - not sure though.

So, in one sentence, there is a difference for your children born abroad.

JoeCross
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Macedonia

Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by JoeCross » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:37 am

A well-known example is that only 'natural born citizens' of the USA can be their president.
Well, that's more privilege than a right, considering that there is also an age requirement, which also disqualifies a bunch of people and make them unequal. Holding a political title is not right per se, because there are a lot of them that requires some sort of qualification.

Richard W
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Location: Stevenage

Re: Which is better - Application for British Citizenship by Descent or Naturalisation?

Post by Richard W » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:16 am

vaza wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:29 pm
Also there may be a timing issue if you prove you've become citizen by descent retrospectively. If you naturalize you become citizen at the ceremony.
Acquisition of citizenddship by registration is not retroactive. There is a significant difference between establishing that one is a citizen and acquiring citizenship. If one is in fact (albeit unestablishedly) already a citizen by descent, one cannot upgrade (at least as far as transmission is concerned) by naturalising as a British citizen.

The nearest I can find to retroactive acquisition is when one becomes British by one's natural father satisfying the Home Secretary that he is one's natural father. The wording of the law here appears to be wrong - a careful reading of Section 50(9A)(c) of the BNA 1981 coupled with Section 1(1) is clearly not what parliament intended - the wording would require that the evidence of paternity exist at the time of birth! We may soon have cases that clarify whether this acquisition is retroactive - the first people this law applies to were born in 2006.

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