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DIVORCE

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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sparrow892
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EU Child and Divorced

Post by sparrow892 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:00 am

Hi Guys,

Could anyone help me with this please.
I am a non EU national married to EU national, we are divorced after before 3 years of marriage and we have a child together who holds EU passport not Irish, and we all are residing in Ireland. Is there any option for me to still stay in state currently i am on Stamp 4 EU fam. Thanks

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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by Obie » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:56 am

Your post makes no sense, we are divorced before after 3 years. Which is the correct position?

Is the child living with you or the EEA national?
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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by sparrow892 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:12 pm

Hi Obie, sorry for confusion i mean to say we got divorce after two and half years of marriage.
Child lives with both 3 days with me and 4 with her it depends on my days off. If i am off for 4 days from work i pick child from her for 4 days. Thanks

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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by Obie » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:41 pm

Only if the child's lives with you, will you be able to retain right of residence, otherwise you will need to get a court order, requiring access to take place in the UK.

Giving the way things are done in the UK, it will be tough for court to give an order if you their is shared custody by consent.
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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by sparrow892 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:19 am

Thanks for reply Obie, i will not get custody as my ex will take it helself, thou she dont mind me visiting child during the week. So there is no other way to retain residency? Thanks

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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by sparrow892 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:38 am

I have seen this judgement by ECJ stating that non eu parent of eu child has the right to residency.
Judgement was made in May 2017.
Here is the link.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejou ... %3Famp%3D1

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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by Obie » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:13 pm

That judgement relates to the primary carer of the child, based on what you have said, that does not seem to be the case.
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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by sparrow892 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:59 pm

Thanks Obie, so no option for me.

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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by Obie » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:02 pm

You and you wife can make agreement by consent, and get it signed by the court, in relation to access to your child, and then I think you will succeed.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by sparrow892 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:41 pm

Thank you very much for the advise.

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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by Granista » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:23 pm

Terrible advice. As a non custodial parent you will have little chance.

Obie
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Re: EU Child and Divorced

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:40 am

A you a troll or what?

The directive provides for a person to retain their right if the court in Ireland rules that access must take place in the state.

There is no requirement that this person is the custodian of the child.

That is another rubbish.

Please have a read throught he 2015 regulations, and then we can have a proper debate.
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DIVORCE

Post by sparrow892 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:06 am

Hello Everyone,

Can anyone help me with this please. I am a NON EU national married to EU national.
Married- June 2017
Separated- August 2018
Dependent Child- 4 year old who holds EU passport and resides with his mom in Ireland and I have access to him during weekends. I pays child maintenance and myself and my ex have good relations between us.
Divorce hearing initiated in Dublin and it is uncontested divorce and first court date is next week and solicitor told me as it is uncontested divorce it should be done in 2 hearings. EU treaty rights is updated with every information including address change and current employers. Recently I have renewed my STAMP 4 EU Fam without any problem and without accompanying EU citizen, as I was having a letter from EU treaty rights stating as my wife still resides in Ireland it wont effect my current visa status.
My question is my ex stop working in August 2020 because she move out to different address in different county as she was unable to work because of our child as she have to look after him bringing him to school and all but I never stopped working. She is currently on social welfare payments of single mother. So if after divorce I apply for retention will it be a problem as she was not working during initiating divorce till now as she is single mother.

Thanks a lot in advance

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Re: DIVORCE

Post by sparrow892 » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:10 am

Any help please

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Re: DIVORCE

Post by sparrow892 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:07 am

Obie any help please ?

Obie
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Re: DIVORCE

Post by Obie » Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:11 am

If there is no treaty rights, it will create problems.
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Re: DIVORCE

Post by sparrow892 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:44 am

Obie wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:11 am
If there is no treaty rights, it will create problems.
Sorry i did not understand. Could you please explain what you mean. Thanks

Obie
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Re: DIVORCE

Post by Obie » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:42 pm

If your wife is not exercising treaty rights at time of your divorce, then you will not be able to secure a retained right of residence.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: DIVORCE

Post by sparrow892 » Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:39 am

Thanks Obie.

I been to a solicitor and this is what i been told by them.

If your estranged spouse is a non-Irish EU national, you have a right to remain in Ireland provided she also remains there during the period of your separation. This is based on the Diatta case, C-267/83 ruled upon by the Court of Justice of the EU.

Once your divorce is finalised, you have a right to remain in Ireland provided you can demonstrate that the marriage lasted for three years, one year of which was spent in Ireland (Article 13(2)(a), Directive 2004/38/EC). When the divorce order is being finalised, you should also formally seek access to your child in Ireland. This would also ensure your right of retention of residence in Ireland pursuant to Article 13(2)(d) which provides that if you have a right of access to a minor child in the host country, you retain a right of residence there as a non-EU national for as long as necessary. Your right of retention of residence is not conditional upon your EU former spouse working or being self sufficient in Ireland.

You are also required to demonstrate that you are either employed or self-employed or have sufficient resources to support yourself in Ireland to retain your right of residence following the divorce.

Do you think so this will work.

Obie
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Re: DIVORCE

Post by Obie » Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:44 pm

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not support what the lawyer is saying, It is not the law, and certainly not the law in Ireland.

The EEA national must be exercising treaty rights prior to the divorce or initiation of the divorce for the non-EEA to acquire right of residence.

To say the EU national does not have to be working until initiation is not logical, not common sense, it is just nonsense.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: DIVORCE

Post by finalversion_2k » Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:20 pm

Obie wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:44 pm
For the avoidance of doubt, I do not support what the lawyer is saying, It is not the law, and certainly not the law in Ireland.

The EEA national must be exercising treaty rights prior to the divorce or initiation of the divorce for the non-EEA to acquire right of residence.

To say the EU national does not have to be working until initiation is not logical, not common sense, it is just nonsense.
adding my 2 cents as experienced ROR EU5 and outcome.

@Obie is correct EEA national must be exercising treaty rights.. and in some cases even if you prove they still find other reason/excuses(you divorce in another country, your partner wasn't here, your partner complain - because of anger jealousy bla bla bla) to disapprove your application. it all depends on their mood.

about solicitor they will always tell you fairy tale stories.. once you did the payment then they will their butcher face.

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Re: DIVORCE

Post by sparrow892 » Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:45 pm

Obie wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:44 pm
For the avoidance of doubt, I do not support what the lawyer is saying, It is not the law, and certainly not the law in Ireland.

The EEA national must be exercising treaty rights prior to the divorce or initiation of the divorce for the non-EEA to acquire right of residence.

To say the EU national does not have to be working until initiation is not logical, not common sense, it is just nonsense.
So any advice what i can do ? My son will be 5 years in February 2022, so will he be eligible for Irish passport ? And my divorce will be done on next month as i had one hearing today and got second date for December. It is uncontested divorce. I have informed EU treaty rights about spouse not working and i got acknowledgment from them nothing else yet. Any advice please.

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Re: DIVORCE

Post by sparrow892 » Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:49 pm

finalversion_2k wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:20 pm
Obie wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:44 pm
For the avoidance of doubt, I do not support what the lawyer is saying, It is not the law, and certainly not the law in Ireland.

The EEA national must be exercising treaty rights prior to the divorce or initiation of the divorce for the non-EEA to acquire right of residence.

To say the EU national does not have to be working until initiation is not logical, not common sense, it is just nonsense.
adding my 2 cents as experienced ROR EU5 and outcome.

@Obie is correct EEA national must be exercising treaty rights.. and in some cases even if you prove they still find other reason/excuses(you divorce in another country, your partner wasn't here, your partner complain - because of anger jealousy bla bla bla) to disapprove your application. it all depends on their mood.

about solicitor they will always tell you fairy tale stories.. once you did the payment then they will their butcher face.
Thanks for reply. We having divorce in Dublin and she have always worked here from feb 2014 till August 2020 and she is still living here no plans to leave the country. Our child will be 5 years old in February and goes to school here in Ireland. So will there be only chance of applying his Irish passport and than getting stamp 4 on behalf of father of Irish child or is there any other way. Thanks

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Re: DIVORCE

Post by Obie » Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:54 pm

Your child may have a claim to Irish citizenship, if your wife had been residing in the state for 3 years prior to his birth, he will not need to naturalise if he was born in Ireland.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: DIVORCE

Post by sparrow892 » Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:00 pm

Obie wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:54 pm
Your child may have a claim to Irish citizenship, if your wife had been residing in the state for 3 years prior to his birth, he will not need to naturalise if he was born in Ireland.
She was not here 3 years before his birth, she was short 5 days. Can child be naturalised after February or will it be a problem in process of naturalisation if she is not working. Thanks

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