ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Stamp 4 Revoked

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

Granista
BANNED
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:12 pm
American Samoa

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Granista » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:28 pm

Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:23 pm


I am a qualified immigration professional who has worked in UK and Ireland, so I know what I am talking.

I do not need to go very far into EU law jurisprudence. The 2015 regulations mandate an immigration officer not to deport a family member of an EU citizen who are not in possession of a visa.

In accordance with MRAX and Article 5 of the directive 2004/38EC, the regulations demands the IO allow the person every opportunity to proof by other means that that have a right to enter into the state.

Therefore in accordance with the regulations, the officer should first have tried to establish if the OP's wife was in the state, if she was, the officer must then establish if she has been residing for more than 3 months, if she has, the officer must then determine if she is exercising treaty rights. If she is, then this person has a right of Entry into the state for a period of 3 months, upon providing proof of his relationship to his wife.

The officer should have then advised him to apply for a Residence card if he proposes to reside in the state for 3 months or more.
No, no and no. Deportation is not revelant, OP was not deported, he was refused leave to land. If you are a professional you should know that. And the OP could not prove by any other means that he had a right to enter the state, as he did not have that right.

OP is not in the State. The proves my point.

I sincerely hope you are not currently taking peoples money for such poor advice. You wouldn't be the only one though. Its a disgrace how people are taken advantage of.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:29 pm

Granista wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:20 pm
Neither Metock nor Diatta are relevant to the OP's case, and the pp was quite right.

OP had no status to enter the State. He had no EUTR entry visa. He was not accompanying his EUFam member. His residence permission had already been revoked, he had no status to live in the State.
It was not in any way possible for him to be granted entry.

You seem to be confusing right of residence and right of entry, and you don't understand the dif between join and accompany, or the impact of a negative residency status.

It is quite telling I must say, that your views are not supported by any law.

OP does not need a visa to Enter Ireland. I have explained to you the case of MRAX, a case binding on Irish Court and take precedent over all Irish law.

I think read MRAX and then revert to me.

OP is not in the state, a fact which is not in duspute. The argument is the lawfulness of the circumstances surrounding his removal when he sought entry at port, and whether the procedure in regulation 4(5), was followed.

If OP's wife is an EU national, residing in the State, then he has a right in EU law to entry to join his wife.

This is simple 1+1 in EU law, I should not be arguing it with a legal practitioner at 23:28 GMT.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:30 pm

I used deportation in a loose way. I understand he was not deported in the strict sense of the word as there was no entry ban.

Without deviating from the main point, the fact remain that removal and/or denial of entry into the state was unlawful, period.

I really do suggest you read regulation 4(5).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015 ... e/en/print, then if you can, explain what you understand by it.

In the interest of your clients, it will help if your familiarise yourself with these provisions and the relevant jurisprudence.

You owe it to your client.

You need to appreciate the difference between the validity of a residence card, which ceases when a person is absent from the state for 6 months, and the right of Entry and residence, which is independent of the validity of a Residence card.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

cyberhawk
Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:34 pm
Mood:
Pakistan

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by cyberhawk » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:39 pm

Granista wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:28 pm
Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:23 pm


I am a qualified immigration professional who has worked in UK and Ireland, so I know what I am talking.

I do not need to go very far into EU law jurisprudence. The 2015 regulations mandate an immigration officer not to deport a family member of an EU citizen who are not in possession of a visa.

In accordance with MRAX and Article 5 of the directive 2004/38EC, the regulations demands the IO allow the person every opportunity to proof by other means that that have a right to enter into the state.

Therefore in accordance with the regulations, the officer should first have tried to establish if the OP's wife was in the state, if she was, the officer must then establish if she has been residing for more than 3 months, if she has, the officer must then determine if she is exercising treaty rights. If she is, then this person has a right of Entry into the state for a period of 3 months, upon providing proof of his relationship to his wife.

The officer should have then advised him to apply for a Residence card if he proposes to reside in the state for 3 months or more.
No, no and no. Deportation is not revelant, OP was not deported, he was refused leave to land. If you are a professional you should know that. And the OP could not prove by any other means that he had a right to enter the state, as he did not have that right.

OP is not in the State. The proves my point.

I sincerely hope you are not currently taking peoples money for such poor advice. You wouldn't be the only one though. Its a disgrace how people are taken advantage of.
The officer’s main focus was the letter sent to me which I never received and I told that to him repeatedly. He then asked when did I last spoke to my wife which I did minutes ago and was talking to her on the plane as well and we text a gazillion times during the day. I showed him our WhatsApp chat as well which he saw and rather than letting me talk to my wife, he told me to turn the phone off and I was only allowed to talk to her just when Garda took me to board the plane.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:46 pm

I am extremely sorry for what you went through. It should never had happened and it causes me immense distress, that this happened in Ireland.

In an Irish case this happened. The court accorded thousand of Euros in damages.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

littlerr
Respected Guru
Posts: 2461
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:14 pm
China

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by littlerr » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:49 pm

Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:23 pm
Therefore in accordance with the regulations, the officer should first have tried to establish if the OP's wife was in the state, if she was, the officer must then establish if she has been residing for more than 3 months, if she has, the officer must then determine if she is exercising treaty rights. If she is, then this person has a right of Entry into the state for a period of 3 months, upon providing proof of his relationship to his wife.
I agree with you that the IO probably didn't exhaust all options to try to establish all facts and try to give the OP access via a different route, but equally, how is the OP supposed to prove his marriage status, presumably without a marriage certificate, without a Join Family Type C visa and without any documentation proving that his wife is exercising treaty rights? (Plus the OP was trying to gain entry to the state with a revoked permit - which would only cast more doubts at that time.)

While you could argue that the IO is supposed to try their best to establish all of these, the question (which I don't know whether it has been clarified in EU courts) is to what extent. The onus is still on the applicant to provide these documents (and similarly to provide updated address to INIS as required by law).

What the OP's barrister recommended makes sense. Get all the paper documents and apply for a new Join Family Type C visa. That would certainly be the fastest way as long as his wife is still exercising treaty rights.

Granista
BANNED
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:12 pm
American Samoa

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Granista » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:51 pm

Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:29 pm
Granista wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:20 pm
Neither Metock nor Diatta are relevant to the OP's case, and the pp was quite right.

OP had no status to enter the State. He had no EUTR entry visa. He was not accompanying his EUFam member. His residence permission had already been revoked, he had no status to live in the State.
It was not in any way possible for him to be granted entry.

You seem to be confusing right of residence and right of entry, and you don't understand the dif between join and accompany, or the impact of a negative residency status.

It is quite telling I must say, that your views are not supported by any law.

OP does not need a visa to Enter Ireland. I have explained to you the case of MRAX, a case binding on Irish Court and take precedent over all Irish law.

I think read MRAX and then revert to me.

OP is not in the state, a fact which is not in duspute. The argument is the lawfulness of the circumstances surrounding his removal when he sought entry at port, and whether the procedure in regulation 4(5), was followed.

If OP's wife is an EU national, residing in the State, then he has a right in EU law to entry to join his wife.

This is simple 1+1 in EU law, I should not be arguing it with a legal practitioner at 23:28 GMT.
Of course he needs a visa to enter. Why do you think there is an entire unit in INIS devoted to issuing EUTR visas, if no-one needs one?
Have you even READ the Directive? IF his wife is an EU national residing in the State AND they have a genuine and subsisting marriage, and IF she is there for more than 3 months AND she has the correct status to be able to avail of the Directive then he had a right of entry. However that determinition is not within the remit of the of the BMU, and since they already had the info that the OP had stamp4 revoked meaning the Dept had done an indepth assessment of his circumstances and for some reason had seen fit to formally state him not to be a beneficiary for residency permits.

The Directive states he needed a visa, he did not have one. He could not prove by other means that he was a beneficiary, ergo he was not able to be granted leave to land.

This is not difficult. Do you know what an EUTR visa is?

cyberhawk
Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:34 pm
Mood:
Pakistan

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by cyberhawk » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:56 pm

littlerr wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:49 pm
Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:23 pm
Therefore in accordance with the regulations, the officer should first have tried to establish if the OP's wife was in the state, if she was, the officer must then establish if she has been residing for more than 3 months, if she has, the officer must then determine if she is exercising treaty rights. If she is, then this person has a right of Entry into the state for a period of 3 months, upon providing proof of his relationship to his wife.
I agree with you that the IO probably didn't exhaust all options to try to establish all facts and try to give the OP access via a different route, but equally, how is the OP supposed to prove his marriage status, presumably without a marriage certificate, without a Join Family Type C visa and without any documentation proving that his wife is exercising treaty rights? (Plus the OP was trying to gain entry to the state with a revoked permit - which would only cast more doubts at that time.)

While you could argue that the IO is supposed to try their best to establish all of these, the question (which I don't know whether it has been clarified in EU courts) is to what extent. The onus is still on the applicant to provide these documents (and similarly to provide updated address to INIS as required by law).

What the OP's barrister recommended makes sense. Get all the paper documents and apply for a new Join Family Type C visa. That would certainly be the fastest way as long as his wife is still exercising treaty rights.
Why would I need a Join Family visa if I had no clue my residence was revoked? Come to think of it, if I had any clue of that, would I even travel? I traveled on the same document and stayed in Ireland for 6 months before I went to Pakistan for 14 days.

As for documents, the officer never asked me for my marriage certificate. I am a techie and have worked with major clients in US in digital marketing space plus I am very well traveled since 2007 so I keep all my personal and business records in google docs. If he would have asked me for any such proof, that would have been very easy for me to show that.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:58 pm

The Directive says he needs a visa, but not necessarily pre-entry visa, as provision is made for visa to be granted at port.

The difficulties is, the immigration officer in this case failed to undertake the task mandated by regulation 4(5).

No examination was done, he was simply put in a plane and returned to Pakistan, under both domestic and EU law, that is unlawful.

That is my advise. The advise based on EU law, which I have given in the 10 years I have been on this forum. You have just joined today and posted about 20 post, you clearly not going to change my views on the law, which is very back and white to me.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

cyberhawk
Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:34 pm
Mood:
Pakistan

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by cyberhawk » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:02 am

Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:46 pm
I am extremely sorry for what you went through. It should never had happened and it causes me immense distress, that this happened in Ireland.

In an Irish case this happened. The court accorded thousand of Euros in damages.
It’s been really hard on us and I am most worried for my elder daughter who is really close to me. Her school has been sending letters to my wife that her performance and efficiency has gone down.

I want to thank you and everyone else who has commented here.

Granista
BANNED
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:12 pm
American Samoa

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Granista » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:03 am

Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:58 pm
The Directive says he needs a visa, but not necessarily pre-entry visa, as provision is made for visa to be granted at port.

The difficulties is, the immigration officer in this case failed to undertake the task mandated by regulation 4(5).

No examination was done, he was simply put in a plane and returned to Pakistan, under both domestic and EU law, that is unlawful.

That is my advise. The advise based on EU law, which I have given in the 10 years I have been on this forum. You have just joined today and posted about 20 post, you clearly not going to change my views on the law, which is very back and white to me.
There is no provision for an visa to be granted at an Irish port. Regulation 4(5) allows someone who has not bothered to get a visa to attempt to prove that they would be entitled to entry under the same rules. OP had no chance of doing so.

Tell me that you understand that he needed to prove he was both a) a qualifying family member and b) that his EU spouse was fulflilling the necessary criteria for him to be able to avail of her free movement rights?

This is day one info

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:07 am

littlerr wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:49 pm
Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:23 pm
Therefore in accordance with the regulations, the officer should first have tried to establish if the OP's wife was in the state, if she was, the officer must then establish if she has been residing for more than 3 months, if she has, the officer must then determine if she is exercising treaty rights. If she is, then this person has a right of Entry into the state for a period of 3 months, upon providing proof of his relationship to his wife.
I agree with you that the IO probably didn't exhaust all options to try to establish all facts and try to give the OP access via a different route, but equally, how is the OP supposed to prove his marriage status, presumably without a marriage certificate, without a Join Family Type C visa and without any documentation proving that his wife is exercising treaty rights? (Plus the OP was trying to gain entry to the state with a revoked permit - which would only cast more doubts at that time.)

While you could argue that the IO is supposed to try their best to establish all of these, the question (which I don't know whether it has been clarified in EU courts) is to what extent. The onus is still on the applicant to provide these documents (and similarly to provide updated address to INIS as required by law).

What the OP's barrister recommended makes sense. Get all the paper documents and apply for a new Join Family Type C visa. That would certainly be the fastest way as long as his wife is still exercising treaty rights.
Well I think your views can form a basis for legal debate, even though I think there was a duty on the officer to do more under regulation 4(5).

However I will not debate on any erroneous suggestions that OP had no right of entry or right to examination at port because his residence has been revoked and EU rights revoked.

That will amount to a legally illiterate opinion, which ought to be immediately discarded.

I think it will help you to read the case below.

That person was awarded over 10,000 Euros in Damages. Raducan is still good law in Ireland. Those still providing professional services to EU family members must read this case.

https://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2011/H224.html
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

littlerr
Respected Guru
Posts: 2461
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:14 pm
China

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by littlerr » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:16 am

cyberhawk wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:56 pm
Why would I need a Join Family visa if I had no clue my residence was revoked? Come to think of it, if I had any clue of that, would I even travel? I traveled on the same document and stayed in Ireland for 6 months before I went to Pakistan for 14 days.

As for documents, the officer never asked me for my marriage certificate. I am a techie and have worked with major clients in US in digital marketing space plus I am very well traveled since 2007 so I keep all my personal and business records in google docs. If he would have asked me for any such proof, that would have been very easy for me to show that.
And that is exactly my point. You can't really say that it is INIS's fault that you didn't receive any letter. After all, it is you that did not inform INIS of your address change.

Obie mentioned that the immigration officer should have a duty to check whether you can avail of EU Treaty as a new immigrant. My point is that even if the officer did check this, you wouldn't have the documents on hand to prove your status. Electronic documents (such as Google Docs) aren't really helpful when they already have doubts.

What are you planning to do now? Have you started a new application or do you plan to dispute?

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:20 am

Littlerr EU law and regulation 4(5), demands that the Officer gives this man every opportunity to provide this evidence or have it brought to him in order to prove his rights.

This is clearly provided for in Irish law, regulation 4(5).

Nothing i have said on this thread is controversial or novel, or legally mischievious, so it is quite insulting to have to defend a point, when i have an early start tomorrow.

I am so upset about this case, i will suggest the OP claim damages against the authorities.

I am glad there are still decent lawyers in Ireland, like the ones that took Mrs Raducan's case, who like this man, entered Ireland without a visa.

The difference is Mrs Raducan had lawyers who actually understood or understands the law.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

cyberhawk
Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:34 pm
Mood:
Pakistan

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by cyberhawk » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:27 am

I have been saying all along it was my mistake to not have informed them about change of address.

I filed an appeal to review the decision to revoke the stamp 4 but I am very confused right now after reading all the comments here.

Another problem I have on hand is that I applied for a Join C visa in December 19 while my appeal was under review but I am told I can’t enter the state while my appeal is under review.

So my immigration/travel history has been jeopardized because a; I was denied entry into a country and b; I have been denied a visa so if I apply to travel to another country, I have 0 chances of getting any visa at all.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:27 am

Granista wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:03 am
Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:58 pm
The Directive says he needs a visa, but not necessarily pre-entry visa, as provision is made for visa to be granted at port.

The difficulties is, the immigration officer in this case failed to undertake the task mandated by regulation 4(5).

No examination was done, he was simply put in a plane and returned to Pakistan, under both domestic and EU law, that is unlawful.

That is my advise. The advise based on EU law, which I have given in the 10 years I have been on this forum. You have just joined today and posted about 20 post, you clearly not going to change my views on the law, which is very back and white to me.
There is no provision for an visa to be granted at an Irish port. Regulation 4(5) allows someone who has not bothered to get a visa to attempt to prove that they would be entitled to entry under the same rules. OP had no chance of doing so.

Tell me that you understand that he needed to prove he was both a) a qualifying family member and b) that his EU spouse was fulflilling the necessary criteria for him to be able to avail of her free movement rights?

This is day one info
This is crazy.

This man has his wife and 2 children in Ireland , the wife is exercising treaty rights. He is a married man, how on earth could he not then prove he is a Qualifying Family member, who has a right of entry into Ireland.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

cyberhawk
Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:34 pm
Mood:
Pakistan

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by cyberhawk » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:39 am

Obie wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:27 am
Granista wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:03 am
Obie wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:58 pm
The Directive says he needs a visa, but not necessarily pre-entry visa, as provision is made for visa to be granted at port.

The difficulties is, the immigration officer in this case failed to undertake the task mandated by regulation 4(5).

No examination was done, he was simply put in a plane and returned to Pakistan, under both domestic and EU law, that is unlawful.

That is my advise. The advise based on EU law, which I have given in the 10 years I have been on this forum. You have just joined today and posted about 20 post, you clearly not going to change my views on the law, which is very back and white to me.
There is no provision for an visa to be granted at an Irish port. Regulation 4(5) allows someone who has not bothered to get a visa to attempt to prove that they would be entitled to entry under the same rules. OP had no chance of doing so.

Tell me that you understand that he needed to prove he was both a) a qualifying family member and b) that his EU spouse was fulflilling the necessary criteria for him to be able to avail of her free movement rights?

This is day one info
This is crazy.

This man has his wife and 2 children in Ireland , the wife is exercising treaty rights. He is a married man, how on earth could he not then prove he is a Qualifying Family member, who has a right of entry into Ireland.
Obie,

How can I send you a private message? I don't think I have enough privilege on this forum because I am a brand new member.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:35 am

Unfortunately, you are not able to send private messages unless you have made 30 posts.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Granista
BANNED
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:12 pm
American Samoa

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Granista » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:27 pm

Obie, you keep repeating that his wife is exercising treaty rights, but you don't know that. Does she have a job? Is she self sufficient or a student?
You don't know what she is and neither did immigration at the airport!

cyberhawk
Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:34 pm
Mood:
Pakistan

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by cyberhawk » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:32 pm

Dear Sir/Madam, she is exercising her rights. She is a partner with me in one of our companies plus she runs her own website which is registered with CRO.

User avatar
griffith
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:35 pm
Mood:
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by griffith » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:07 pm

Granista wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:27 pm
Obie, you keep repeating that his wife is exercising treaty rights, but you don't know that. Does she have a job? Is she self sufficient or a student?
You don't know what she is and neither did immigration at the airport!
I have read all your previous posts.
FYI
Upon landing at dublin airport my first cousin was told that his stamp4eufam was revoked few months ago and the minister hadn't received any reply from him.
After talking to his wife who was residing in Ireland and exercising EU treaty rights the immigration officer was well satisfied that because they hadn't received the letter they couldn't reply to the minister.
He was allowed to enter and appeal against the revocation. Please note the revocation letter was issued 3 months prior to his arrival at Dublin airport.
And for what it's worth the couple are still in Ireland living their lives.
Stay strong & never Give up!

Granista
BANNED
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:12 pm
American Samoa

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Granista » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:29 pm

The ICO has the ultimate discretion, and allowed your cousin to enter, as s/he was able to do so. The ICO was not obliged to do so. Your cousin was very lucky. It doesn't mean it will apply to anyone else. OP here was unlucky, but the ICO was not wrong.

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:28 pm

Granista wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:29 pm
The ICO has the ultimate discretion, and allowed your cousin to enter, as s/he was able to do so. The ICO was not obliged to do so. Your cousin was very lucky. It doesn't mean it will apply to anyone else. OP here was unlucky, but the ICO was not wrong.
It is like knocking one's head against a brick wall.

If a person shows documentary evidence of their relationship and the EEA national history in the state, then the Immigration officer has no discretion. He has to let the person in. Raducan says so. I do not have to do so as I owe you no explanation as you claim to be a lawyer. I cited a relevant case in Ireland where this issue was addressed and you are still not satisfied.

This is very concerning.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:32 pm

Granista wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:27 pm
Obie, you keep repeating that his wife is exercising treaty rights, but you don't know that. Does she have a job? Is she self sufficient or a student?
You don't know what she is and neither did immigration at the airport!
I will be gracious and sensible to concede if it is the case that the wife was not exercising treaty right.

However, it must be noted that you have disputed the very possibility of him securing entry, even if his wife was exercising treaty rights, and instead of doing the decent think in acknowledging you were wrong, you keep trying to attack more and digging other irrelevant points.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

User avatar
griffith
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:35 pm
Mood:
Ireland

Re: Stamp 4 Revoked

Post by griffith » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:58 pm

Granista wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:29 pm
The ICO has the ultimate discretion, and allowed your cousin to enter, as s/he was able to do so. The ICO was not obliged to do so. Your cousin was very lucky. It doesn't mean it will apply to anyone else. OP here was unlucky, but the ICO was not wrong.
If it depends on luck than why did you say that one cannot enter the state with a residence permission revoked by the immigration???

Let me ask you something.

If this person was travelling to Dublin with his wife and children with his residence permission being revoked what the ICO would do then ????
Deport all ????
Deny entry ???
Stay strong & never Give up!

Locked
cron