chenchooliah V Minister For Justice - Important Judgement On Rights Of EU Citizen Spouses.

@obie i think Applicants case refusals are equivalent to punishments. I wonder if the minister treats non-rep applicants different than the one who hire lawyers to apply on their behalf.
In my opinion initially the application form should be submitted by the applicants themselves and then if there are any issues(if any) than a lawyer should be hired to deal with the minister.
@finalversion.
Do you think your lawyer is using your case as a Test case ?

Hi Grif
I applied my self Retention case was Granted then I applied my self EU3 and after year Refused now I hired Solister will see what he can do.
I don't think its make any difference if you applied your self or through Solister DOJ going Refused every second application without any solid Reason. They did in my case same thing.

usmanch313 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:32 pm

Hi Grif
I applied my self Retention case was Granted then I applied my self EU3 and after year Refused now I hired Solister will see what he can do.
I don't think its make any difference if you applied your self or through Solister DOJ going Refused every second application without any solid Reason. They did in my case same thing.

So department is refusing applicants so they can come back with appeal/review?
I dont think they will refuse u r application without any investigation, they are short staff so why on earth they refuse any application for no reason. Make no sense.

Too many new reforms coming in Immigration department so dont take them easy.
Irish Immigration is not same as it used to be.
They are short staff and slow but once they start investigating any file then they do it proper.
Imagine if all refusal end up in court then it's bad for DOJ.

griffith wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:49 pm

@obie i think Applicants case refusals are equivalent to punishments. I wonder if the minister treats non-rep applicants different than the one who hire lawyers to apply on their behalf.
In my opinion initially the application form should be submitted by the applicants themselves and then if there are any issues(if any) than a lawyer should be hired to deal with the minister.
@finalversion.
Do you think your lawyer is using your case as a Test case ?

Yes @griffith to me it looks like that.. solicitor and barristers they used our cases as test cases..

@Finepaddy its all about money. you pay solicitors thousands and then to barristers thousands.. if your application refuse then they show you another new path.. take my case as example retention refused, hire barrister on heavy fees.. they submit appeal.. now In case if appeal fail then solicitor/barrister will say let bring them to court.. again need to pay them court fee.. if that fail then they will say lets apply for work permit.. if that fails then they will say lets apply for section 3 humanitarian grounds and so on... point is for each application they charge..

In your case the damage is done.
Disregarding and proving the polish government's letter as misleading may solve your problem. I hope you haven't provided any bogus documents( its always good to excuse than to provide them with these such documents)
Personally i think( i maybe wrong) that hiring a barrister wouldn't help in your case but changing a lawyer would.

I saw in one of your posts that you are a qualified professional. Rather than applying section 3 do you not want to consider immigrating to the UK (e.g: Tier2(g))

By the way i have just found out that while your appeal is in process the minister shall give you a temporary permission(not sure after how long) the person i spoke to got his temporary stamp after 11 months

@griffith : I believe you are right, damage is done.. and I should change the solicitor and honestly I was thinking but then I wasn't sure new solicitor will understand the criticality of the application as after refusal it become big mess..

I don't have much information regarding Tier 2 application.. if you can point me any URL that will be helpful.

finalversion_2k wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:42 am

griffith wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:49 pm

@obie i think Applicants case refusals are equivalent to punishments. I wonder if the minister treats non-rep applicants different than the one who hire lawyers to apply on their behalf.
In my opinion initially the application form should be submitted by the applicants themselves and then if there are any issues(if any) than a lawyer should be hired to deal with the minister.
@finalversion.
Do you think your lawyer is using your case as a Test case ?

Yes @griffith to me it looks like that.. solicitor and barristers they used our cases as test cases..

@Finepaddy its all about money. you pay solicitors thousands and then to barristers thousands.. if your application refuse then they show you another new path.. take my case as example retention refused, hire barrister on heavy fees.. they submit appeal.. now In case if appeal fail then solicitor/barrister will say let bring them to court.. again need to pay them court fee.. if that fail then they will say lets apply for work permit.. if that fails then they will say lets apply for section 3 humanitarian grounds and so on... point is for each application they charge..

@finalversion_2k I am in very similar situation currently and extremely stressed if I should hire barrister to represent my case.
the minister have directed my case to eu treaty unit, in another word refused my application. I believe same that my lawyer didnt do his/her best to represent my case. now since 3 weeks awaiting that the lawyer seeking barrister advise.
did you get any positive response with barrister?
If yes please can I have your barrister details because I have no clue which barrister is good in such cases. thanks a lot.

guys any progress regarding chenchooliah judgement does anybody gets reply from the department.

Please note that no one is permitted to publish details of representatives on this forum.

griffith wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:43 pm

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:17 pm

griffith wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:07 am

I dont understand any of your posts.
The judgement that you are referring to does not address sham marriage issue.
It only effects those individuals who were previously granted residence permissions but were issued with unlawful deportation orders under S3 where the EU citizen has permanently left the host member state.

Retention cases are precessed under an incorrect procedure nothing to do with sham marriages.

I never get any deportation letter or removal order, nor my case is in sham marriage. EU is in ireland and working for 4 years from day one till today. I do get temporary stamps, 3 temporary stamp 4. no EU4FM. still I get the letter my case in attach to chenchooliah case. Any thoughts. Or they put me in chenchooliah to sent to waste more time.

You got three temporary stamps.
I assume you had enough residency to qualify for naturalisation.
Have you applied for citizenship yet ?

I have total of 22 months of stamp 4. then case is in pending

azee81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:58 pm

guys any progress regarding chenchooliah judgement does anybody gets reply from the department.

No not yet. I am waiting. Until or unless, chenchooliah donot get anything, we will not get anything.
I will see this case 2-3 months more

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:13 pm

azee81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:58 pm

guys any progress regarding chenchooliah judgement does anybody gets reply from the department.

No not yet. I am waiting. Until or unless, chenchooliah donot get anything, we will not get anything.
I will see this case 2-3 months more

It is not necessarily the case that no one will get anything. Under EU law and Article 7 of CFR, there will have to be proportionality assessment. If children are involve, best interest will have to be considered. Before removing a person factors such as their link to the state, integration, whether they own a property will all need to be considered.

There is no automatic right of residence, but the government needs to undertake balancing exercise.

And most importantly no one will be removed on the back of a deport order without the prospect of Return.

Obie wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:24 pm

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:13 pm

azee81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:58 pm

guys any progress regarding chenchooliah judgement does anybody gets reply from the department.

No not yet. I am waiting. Until or unless, chenchooliah donot get anything, we will not get anything.
I will see this case 2-3 months more

It is not necessarily the case that no one will get anything. Under EU law and Article 7 of CFR, there will have to be proportionality assessment. If children are involve, best interest will have to be considered. Before removing a person factors such as their link to the state, integration, whether they own a property will all need to be considered.

There is no automatic right of residence, but the government needs to undertake balancing exercise.

And most importantly no one will be removed on the back of a deport order without the prospect of Return.

@ Obie, do u think my case will get any benefit for chenchooliah case,my case, in on medical condition (GP and consultant letter) and EU citizen is in the state. or they will issue removal order as well. I think, to move to belfast and apply there for residence card but I don't have any stamp.

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Obie wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:24 pm

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:13 pm

azee81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:58 pm

guys any progress regarding chenchooliah judgement does anybody gets reply from the department.

No not yet. I am waiting. Until or unless, chenchooliah donot get anything, we will not get anything.
I will see this case 2-3 months more

It is not necessarily the case that no one will get anything. Under EU law and Article 7 of CFR, there will have to be proportionality assessment. If children are involve, best interest will have to be considered. Before removing a person factors such as their link to the state, integration, whether they own a property will all need to be considered.

There is no automatic right of residence, but the government needs to undertake balancing exercise.

And most importantly no one will be removed on the back of a deport order without the prospect of Return.

@ Obie, do u think my case will get any benefit for chenchooliah case,my case, in on medical condition (GP and consultant letter) and EU citizen is in the state. or they will issue removal order as well. I think, to move to belfast and apply there for residence card but I don't have any stamp.

If eu citizen is in state then why u applied in first place ?
U got eu fam through marriage?

i cantt understand the significant of this judgement if they still can remove you from the state.because its the same thing as deportation for some non eu countries specialy asian countries .because once a person removed who is originally from asian country he has to go through same process as he is applying for the first time.and the chance of getting visa is very low because of your removal from the state.

Finepaddy wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:25 pm

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Obie wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:24 pm

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:13 pm

No not yet. I am waiting. Until or unless, chenchooliah donot get anything, we will not get anything.
I will see this case 2-3 months more

It is not necessarily the case that no one will get anything. Under EU law and Article 7 of CFR, there will have to be proportionality assessment. If children are involve, best interest will have to be considered. Before removing a person factors such as their link to the state, integration, whether they own a property will all need to be considered.

There is no automatic right of residence, but the government needs to undertake balancing exercise.

And most importantly no one will be removed on the back of a deport order without the prospect of Return.

@ Obie, do u think my case will get any benefit for chenchooliah case,my case, in on medical condition (GP and consultant letter) and EU citizen is in the state. or they will issue removal order as well. I think, to move to belfast and apply there for residence card but I don't have any stamp.

If eu citizen is in state then why u applied in first place ?
U got eu fam through marriage?

If eu citizen is in state then why u applied in first place ?
I donot know why they put me in chenchooliah, But I get the letter from INIS, stated that my case is atach to chenchooliah case in september 2018.
U got eu fam through marriage?
I never able to get EU4FM till now. I only get a temporary stamp 4 (three times 22 months).
No deportation and removal order till now.

raj1936 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:50 pm

finalversion_2k wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:42 am

griffith wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:49 pm

@obie i think Applicants case refusals are equivalent to punishments. I wonder if the minister treats non-rep applicants different than the one who hire lawyers to apply on their behalf.
In my opinion initially the application form should be submitted by the applicants themselves and then if there are any issues(if any) than a lawyer should be hired to deal with the minister.
@finalversion.
Do you think your lawyer is using your case as a Test case ?

Yes @griffith to me it looks like that.. solicitor and barristers they used our cases as test cases..

@Finepaddy its all about money. you pay solicitors thousands and then to barristers thousands.. if your application refuse then they show you another new path.. take my case as example retention refused, hire barrister on heavy fees.. they submit appeal.. now In case if appeal fail then solicitor/barrister will say let bring them to court.. again need to pay them court fee.. if that fail then they will say lets apply for work permit.. if that fails then they will say lets apply for section 3 humanitarian grounds and so on... point is for each application they charge..

@finalversion_2k I am in very similar situation currently and extremely stressed if I should hire barrister to represent my case.
the minister have directed my case to eu treaty unit, in another word refused my application. I believe same that my lawyer didnt do his/her best to represent my case. now since 3 weeks awaiting that the lawyer seeking barrister advise.
did you get any positive response with barrister?
If yes please can I have your barrister details because I have no clue which barrister is good in such cases. thanks a lot.

As you are new member so you can't send/receive messages.. and on Post you are not allowed to write/recommend any firm or person..

'since 3 weeks awaiting that the lawyer seeking barrister advise' these lines remind me something.. Please correct me if I'm wrong that she is based in dublin 8?? if I'm right then I have to say may GOD bless us.. she will waste your time so you become panic and then agree with ther terms e.g fee, cover letter.. She will ask you for barrister fee around thousand..

let me know if I'm right OR not..

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Obie wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:24 pm

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:13 pm

azee81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:58 pm

guys any progress regarding chenchooliah judgement does anybody gets reply from the department.

No not yet. I am waiting. Until or unless, chenchooliah donot get anything, we will not get anything.
I will see this case 2-3 months more

It is not necessarily the case that no one will get anything. Under EU law and Article 7 of CFR, there will have to be proportionality assessment. If children are involve, best interest will have to be considered. Before removing a person factors such as their link to the state, integration, whether they own a property will all need to be considered.

There is no automatic right of residence, but the government needs to undertake balancing exercise.

And most importantly no one will be removed on the back of a deport order without the prospect of Return.

@ Obie, do u think my case will get any benefit for chenchooliah case,my case, in on medical condition (GP and consultant letter) and EU citizen is in the state. or they will issue removal order as well. I think, to move to belfast and apply there for residence card but I don't have any stamp.

I thought your case was your mother who was refused Residence card as a dependent family member.

Chenchooliah is applicable to all matter except marriage of convenience.

Not all solicitor same.
Some solicitor ask u to pay the fee before they listen u r case and some solicitor dont mention any fee until they get any result.
But mostly solicitor now a days dont know anything about immigration.

Guys i think everyone needs to hold on for a few months, general elections are close.
Few years ago Fianna fail had proposed a bill for regularisation of illegal immigrants. Hopefully they will turn out to be in favour of immigrants.

http://www.thetricolour.com/Articles/18 ... /l4457076/

The new government will surely have an impact on the immigration system also the Minister.

I am afraid incompetent lawyers and expensive law firms will continue to rip their clients apart, sucking as much money as they can from them. (This concerns me alot)

griffith wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:59 pm

Guys i think everyone needs to hold on for a few months, general elections are close.
Few years ago Fianna fail had proposed a bill for regularisation of illegal immigrants. Hopefully they will turn out to be in favour of immigrants.

http://www.thetricolour.com/Articles/18 ... /l4457076/

The new government will surely have an impact on the immigration system also the Minister.

I am afraid incompetent lawyers and expensive law firms will continue to rip their clients apart, sucking as much money as they can from them. (This concerns me alot)

Why posting this dearly beloved and race baiting website on this forum.

They provide anti migrant and inaccurate information.

Obie wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:15 pm

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Obie wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:24 pm

arz1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:13 pm

No not yet. I am waiting. Until or unless, chenchooliah donot get anything, we will not get anything.
I will see this case 2-3 months more

It is not necessarily the case that no one will get anything. Under EU law and Article 7 of CFR, there will have to be proportionality assessment. If children are involve, best interest will have to be considered. Before removing a person factors such as their link to the state, integration, whether they own a property will all need to be considered.

There is no automatic right of residence, but the government needs to undertake balancing exercise.

And most importantly no one will be removed on the back of a deport order without the prospect of Return.

@ Obie, do u think my case will get any benefit for chenchooliah case,my case, in on medical condition (GP and consultant letter) and EU citizen is in the state. or they will issue removal order as well. I think, to move to belfast and apply there for residence card but I don't have any stamp.

I thought your case was your mother who was refused Residence card as a dependent family member.

Chenchooliah is applicable to all matter except marriage of convenience.

I think marriage of convenience included in Directive 2004/38 already.

"Article 35
Abuse of rights
Member States may adopt the necessary measures to refuse, terminate or withdraw any right
conferred by this Directive in the case of abuse of rights or fraud, such as marriages of convenience.
Any such measure shall be proportionate and subject to the procedural safeguards provided for in
Articles 30 and 31.
"

and whats the criteria in determining marriage of convenience do they just use there gut feelings or they follow some process

That provision does not confer any substantive rights. It merely provides member states power to take action against fraud.

An applicant who case was proven Marriage of convenience will have no right under EU provision.

@obie, if some have a genuine relationship, and it comes under chenchooliah, EU citizen is in state. can he will get the residence card, or not.
if yes, how long INIIS can take to issue card, 1 year or more than tht. i get chenchooliah in august 2019.
Any idea.