EUSS family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

avro1959 · Post by **avro1959** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:24 am

Folks!

I'm still struggling with this and I have searched far and wide for answers before posting.

I am a Canadian citizen and my wife is Irish. We live in Canada and have been married for 5 year and we intend to move to the UK this summer as my wife is pursuing further studies.

My Irish wife has apply under the EU settlement scheme and been granted pre-settled status, and now this gives me the right to also be admitted under the EU settlement scheme (EUSS).

As a Canadian citizen, I do not require a visa to travel to the UK, hence I'm questioning the value of applying for the EUSS family permit from Canada vs. showing up at the airport border and requesting a family permit on arrival or a code 1a stamp. I know the latter is a less popular route, and I've read stories of border officers not being too happy to do this extra work at the border.

On the flip side, I have also heard horror stories of family permit applications being refused abroad for arbitrary reasons, with no right of appeal, even for couples who have been married for decades. I'm not sure how true this is, but I'm really confused about the approach to take even as I see pros and cons for both approaches.

Thoughts/suggestions? Thank you!

Richard W · Post by **Richard W** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:49 pm

Where does your wife claim to reside? I don't see how she could have been accepted under the pre-settlement scheme without living in the UK.

The EEA regulations (implementation of EU law) allow you to reside for an initial period of 3 months. That is the time for the 'code 1A' stamp, though it will probably be an 'EEA Regulations' stamp.

If 3 months have passed since your wife started residing in the UK, to get the 'code 1A' stamp you will probably need to show that she is a qualified person - studying, self-sufficient, and with Comprehensive Sickness Insurance for the two of you.

You may you have left yourselves no alternative but a family permit under the EU settlement scheme.

I hope I'm wrong about having to show that your wife is a qualified person to get a Code 1A stamp.

avro1959 · Post by **avro1959** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:22 pm

As an Irish citizen, showing residency in the UK is a matter of being in the UK for >1 day and having an address. So she was able to apply for pre-settled status during a recent trip to the UK since her dad lived there and she used his address. She’s back with me in Canada now and we’re wrapping things up over the next 2-3 months.

She has lived in the UK several years ago, so when she applied and used her national insurance number, it automatically gave her pre-settled status.

She has a qualifying reason - to be a student, so I’m not too concerned about that.

Thanks for sharing the fact about the 3 month limit on the EEA regulations stamp. I thought it was longer than that, that’s probably a con for that option then.

Courtneym · Post by **Courtneym** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:12 pm

I am a New Zealander married to a polish citizen with settled status. As a fellow visa waiver country I travelled to the uk as a tourist. I scanned my passport at the e gate in Glasgow airport as they no longer give you a chance to see the border agent there if you are from a country like Canada or New Zealand. I’m not sure what it is like at other uk airports. Once I was in the uk I applied for pre settled status using my boarding pass and marriage certificate as evidence and linked it to my husbands settled status application. I waited 4 weeks for it to come through. During that time I was not able to work as I was a tourist but once the pre settled status came through I was able to work and do everything as normal. It’s a bit of a loop hole for countries like us who do not have any barriers entering the UK. I would advise you give the EU settlement hotline a call just to verify that you are able to do the same as me.

Richard W · Post by **Richard W** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:25 pm

Courtneym wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:12 pm
During that time I was not able to work as I was a tourist but once the pre settled status came through I was able to work and do everything as normal.

Nit pick: If your husband was a qualified person, or had achieved permanent residence (as opposed to having a DCPR), you were legally permitted to work.

Courtneym · Post by **Courtneym** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:20 pm

I had called the Eu settlement scheme hotline to ask them when I got my COA if this meant I could work. They said that as I had entered as a tourist and not as a family member with a family permit, I would still be considered a tourist until I recieved the pre settlement status.

avro1959 · Post by **avro1959** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:22 pm

Courtneym wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:20 pm
I had called the Eu settlement scheme hotline to ask them when I got my COA if this meant I could work. They said that as I had entered as a tourist and not as a family member with a family permit, I would still be considered a tourist until I recieved the pre settlement status.

This sounds accurate - a COA only allows you to maintain the status you had, which in this case was a visitor status.

Thank you for sharing your experience of applying after entering the UK. How long did it take you to get your pre-settled status when you applied? Also, when did you apply?

Is the EU settlement hotline a government service? If so, they’re likely to advise everyone to obtain a family permit from abroad, correct? The UK government has been quiet about other entry options like the family permit on arrival or the method you used by entering as a visitor.

My wife and I will be in Dublin this summer, and we’re planning to move to Belfast. If I follow your approach, I may just take the train to Belfast so that I have proof of entry, as there are no border posts and the UK government’s advice is that crossing the NI border is deemed a legal entry for those who have a visa or don’t require a visa to visit the UK.

Courtneym · Post by **Courtneym** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:36 pm

I did my biometrics on the 28th of December 2019 and then recieved my decision email on the 28th of January 2020.

I had contacted UKVI and was informed that It would be more ideal to enter with a family permit but because I was from New Zealand I could enter as a tourist/visitor. And then I would be able to apply for either the settled scheme or the EEA FM scheme. A family permit is really only for people who need a visa to get on the plane in the first place and who want/need to work while they are waiting for the application.

I had then contacted the settlement scheme hotline to verify this and they said that it was possible to apply from a visitor/tourist status.

I had been staying with my husband for a few weeks in Scotland (I entered the normal way as a tourist) and then we flew to Denmark to get married in December. When we came back I was prepare to get a stamp as proof of entering the uk. As a nz passport holder I was immediately directed to the egates. When I told them I wanted a stamp they said they don’t give stamps to nz passports anymore and directed me back to the egate. At the egate I walked over to the man at the desk and asked for a stamp and he just scanned my passport and gave it back to me.

avro1959 · Post by **avro1959** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:23 pm

Courtneym wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:36 pm
I did my biometrics on the 28th of December 2019 and then recieved my decision email on the 28th of January 2020.

I had contacted UKVI and was informed that It would be more ideal to enter with a family permit but because I was from New Zealand I could enter as a tourist/visitor. And then I would be able to apply for either the settled scheme or the EEA FM scheme. A family permit is really only for people who need a visa to get on the plane in the first place and who want/need to work while they are waiting for the application.

I had then contacted the settlement scheme hotline to verify this and they said that it was possible to apply from a visitor/tourist status.

I had been staying with my husband for a few weeks in Scotland (I entered the normal way as a tourist) and then we flew to Denmark to get married in December. When we came back I was prepare to get a stamp as proof of entering the uk. As a nz passport holder I was immediately directed to the egates. When I told them I wanted a stamp they said they don’t give stamps to nz passports anymore and directed me back to the egate. At the egate I walked over to the man at the desk and asked for a stamp and he just scanned my passport and gave it back to me.

Brilliant! Thank you Courtneym, you’ve just saved me a ton of effort and anxiety!! We’re just going to follow the approach you took and hopefully everything works out. I’m also okay with the risk of it not working out ie if I need to leave and Re-enter the country for any reason, as I won’t be looking for a job as soon as I land (I have my existing job in Canada).

Courtneym · Post by **Courtneym** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:42 pm

You are welcome. Just to cover yourself I would contact the Eu settlement hotline to be sure that my experience as a New Zealander is the same as yours as a Canadian and save any undue hassle.

Richard W · Post by **Richard W** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:09 am

Courtneym wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:36 pm
I had been staying with my husband for a few weeks in Scotland (I entered the normal way as a tourist) and then we flew to Denmark to get married in December. When we came back I was prepare to get a stamp as proof of entering the uk. As a nz passport holder I was immediately directed to the egates. When I told them I wanted a stamp they said they don’t give stamps to nz passports anymore and directed me back to the egate. At the egate I walked over to the man at the desk and asked for a stamp and he just scanned my passport and gave it back to me.

They should not have done that. In https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/at-border-control it says:

When you must see a border control officer

You must see a border control officer and get a stamp in your passport if you’re from a non-EEA country and entering the UK:

* on a short term study visa up to 6 months
* with a Tier 5 Creative or Sporting certificate of sponsorship for up to 3 months (and you want to enter without a visa)
* on a permitted paid engagement
* to accompany or join your EEA family member

If your husband has permanent residence (settled status doesn't count; possession of a DCPR is irrelevant except as evidence), then you were still entitled to work. And I am not sure that you did have visitor status. The Immigration (Leave to Enter and Remain) (Amendment) Order 2019 adds the regulation:

Further provision as to automatic grant of leave

8B.—(1) A person to whom this article applies may obtain leave to enter the United Kingdom by passing through an automated gate.

(2) This article applies to a person who–

(a)is a national of Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea or the United States of America;

(b)is travelling on a passport issued by one of the countries listed in sub-paragraph (a);

(c)is aged 12 or above; and

(d)is seeking to enter the United Kingdom as a visitor (standard) under Appendix V to the immigration rules.

(3) Leave under paragraph (1) is given for a period of six months.

(4) Such leave is subject to conditions prohibiting employment and recourse to public funds (within the meaning of the immigration rules).”

So using the egates can't make you a visitor against your will! The downside is that if you need leave to enter and don't have, it is unlawful if not illegal to enter without leave to enter.

For the first three categories who need stamps, the Home Office has prepared a leaflet stating that they need a stamp in their passport. There are some scathing comments around about the need for such a leaflet.

avro1959 · Post by **avro1959** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:04 am

So using the egates can't make you a visitor against your will! The downside is that if you need leave to enter and don't have, it is unlawful if not illegal to enter without leave to enter.

Richard W, I didn’t quite understand this part. The way I read it, I’m entering as a visitor if I used the egates. What am I missing?

Thanks!

Richard W · Post by **Richard W** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:20 pm

avro1959 wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:04 am

So using the egates can't make you a visitor against your will! The downside is that if you need leave to enter and don't have, it is unlawful if not illegal to enter without leave to enter.
Richard W, I didn’t quite understand this part. The way I read it, I’m entering as a visitor if I used the egates. What am I missing?

The grant of one form of leave normally cancels any other leave. If passing through the gates conferred leave to enter as a visitor, it would be disastrous for someone with ILR to pass through these gates. Accordingly, requirement (d) ensures that one is only granted leave to enter as a visitor by passing through the gates if that is what one is after.

Courtneym · Post by **Courtneym** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:44 pm

Well in my situation it worked out fine in the end and I have ended up with my presettled status and able am stay and work in the UK with my husband.

qlh523 · Post by **qlh523** » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:06 pm

Hi,Courtneym,

Can I ask when you apply for your pre-settled status, did you 'prove your Identity' using your passport? Currently, when Using the ‘EU Exit: ID Document Check’ app, the app doesn’t allow to use a passport to prove identity if you are not an EU, EEA or Swiss Citizen. For none EU citizen the app is asking for a Biometric residence card or residence permit which I don't have. Also there are no other options I can process the pre-settled status application.
I am wondering if this is normal or it's because of the Covid-19 situation.
It will be much appreciated if you can reply. Many thanks!

Courtneym · Post by **Courtneym** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:42 am

I think Non EU people are not able to use the app and have to use the website instead. I used the website and then had to book an appointment to do my biometrics. When I was there they checked my passport.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

EUSS family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

EUSS family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival

Re: EU Settlement Scheme family permit before travel vs. code 1a stamp on arrival