Am I eligible for German citizenship ?

A child born in a foreign country no longer receives German citizenship automatically by birth if their German parent was born after 31 December 1999 in a foreign country and has their primary residence there. Exceptions are:

• The child would be stateless.
  The German parent registers the child's birth within one year of birth to the responsible German agency abroad.

st pauli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:57 pm

Wikipedia says ''Those born after 1 January 1975 are Germans if the mother or father is a German citizen.'' -

I was born in 1985 and I believe my mother is a German citizen in the abstract sense, i.e. she is eligible for German citizenship, but has never ''claimed it'' by obtaining any official German identification documents. She was born in England to a German father in 1956.

It is also stated:

A child born in a foreign country no longer receives German citizenship automatically by birth if their German parent was born after 31 December 1999 in a foreign country and has their primary residence there. Exceptions are:

• The child would be stateless.
  The German parent registers the child's birth within one year of birth to the responsible German agency abroad.

This seems to imply that no such requirement existed prior to 1999, to register the births. My mother was born in 1956 and me in 1985, so are we not then German citizens automatically? Or at least she is?

Is it worth my applying for a German passport?

I was born in 1985 and I believe my mother is a German citizen in the abstract sense

st pauli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:48 pm

Thank you, that's encouraging to hear, I'll proceed cautiously optimistic. My mother only knows that her father was born in a part of Germany that is now Polish territory, so I suppose it can't be got from the municipality but (if it's possible) maybe from a federal/national records archive of some kind?

ALKB wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:14 pm

Oh dear, so East Prussia or Silesia. Standesamt I in Berlin would be the place to ask.

https://www.berlin.de/labo/buergerdiens ... in-berlin/

Did your grandfather ever naturalise as British? Possibly before your mother was born?

Does she have any official German paperwork? Preferably a passport?

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:02 pm

I was born in 1985 and I believe my mother is a German citizen in the abstract sense

You need now to work towards demonstrating that in a concrete sense. I think the priority here would be to get your mother to claim her German citizenship by tracing the records. From that point, it will be automatic for you.

st pauli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:02 pm

I was born in 1985 and I believe my mother is a German citizen in the abstract sense

You need now to work towards demonstrating that in a concrete sense. I think the priority here would be to get your mother to claim her German citizenship by tracing the records. From that point, it will be automatic for you.

Ideally I was hoping it would be sufficient to demonstrate it via proof of the line of descent from her father to me, i.e. copies of birth certificates; and include that with my application, rather than asking my mother to apply for a German passport herself first. There is a time constraint here as I believe this is the last year (Brexit transition period) that anyone will be able to get German citizenship while retaining British.

st pauli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:10 pm

Relating to herself, nothing. Relating to her father, it's a possibility, I'm waiting to hear back from an aunt about any kind of identity documents than might be available, e.g. relating to army service, education. Is such documentation likely to be important if paternity link can be in any case shown through copies of birth certificates? Is it just a case of the more documents the better?

ALKB wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:50 pm

st pauli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:10 pm

Relating to herself, nothing. Relating to her father, it's a possibility, I'm waiting to hear back from an aunt about any kind of identity documents than might be available, e.g. relating to army service, education. Is such documentation likely to be important if paternity link can be in any case shown through copies of birth certificates? Is it just a case of the more documents the better?

Uh oh. Army service?

Did your grandfather join the British army?

If yes, he must have naturalised at some point, as only British and Commonwealth nationals can join? Or was that different in the 1950s?

Also: have you tried googling your grandfather's name? It's amazing how many people maintain online family trees that have loads of information that could be a first step to knowing which authority to contact.

ALKB wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:41 pm

st pauli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:02 pm

I was born in 1985 and I believe my mother is a German citizen in the abstract sense

You need now to work towards demonstrating that in a concrete sense. I think the priority here would be to get your mother to claim her German citizenship by tracing the records. From that point, it will be automatic for you.

Ideally I was hoping it would be sufficient to demonstrate it via proof of the line of descent from her father to me, i.e. copies of birth certificates; and include that with my application, rather than asking my mother to apply for a German passport herself first. There is a time constraint here as I believe this is the last year (Brexit transition period) that anyone will be able to get German citizenship while retaining British.

No time constraint.

You are not applying for naturalisation, you already are a German citizen/dual national by birth (we hope). A passport is just documentary evidence of your existing citizenship, not having one does not make you not-German.

I think it would make things a lot easier if you and your mother would at least apply for passports at the same time (get ID cards, too while you are at it - you can travel with just that within the EU without having to lug your passport around), since you have not already had a German passport. You have to show that your mother really is German and she has to show that her father really was German.

A potential pitfall could be that there was some time period in which dual national-born children had to decide for one nationality at 21. I don't know when that was or whether they would apply this when applying for a first passport/ID card as an adult.

Do gather as many documents as you can ad talk to the Embassy, if possible. When I got a new ID card at the Consulate in Edinburgh, they were saying that loads of people were applying for first passports, so your case is not unusual.

If you can't find your grandfather's birth certificate, contact Standesamt 1 in Berlin. Although I think you'd at least have to know where your grandfather was born exactly.

You could apply for a determination of citizenship, but that would take quite some time and I would definitely not do that as a first step. The Embassy will tell you if that's required, usually when, at the time of a first passport application, they are not sure whether you are German or not.

The questions they ask might be helpful for you to determine what is required, especially regarding marriage certificates, naturalisation and joining the armed forces of a country that was not Germany:

https://australien.diplo.de/au-en/servi ... ip/2074756

st pauli wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:34 pm

Sorry, just to add one more question : Is it still a problem if my grandfather naturalized as British after my mother was born?

I guess if Germany didn't allow dual citizenship at the time that mean him de facto losing German citizenship, but then my mum would've already been born a German citizen, so would she really ''lose'' that due to the later actions of her father?

st pauli wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:09 pm

ALKB wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:41 pm

st pauli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:02 pm

You need now to work towards demonstrating that in a concrete sense. I think the priority here would be to get your mother to claim her German citizenship by tracing the records. From that point, it will be automatic for you.

Ideally I was hoping it would be sufficient to demonstrate it via proof of the line of descent from her father to me, i.e. copies of birth certificates; and include that with my application, rather than asking my mother to apply for a German passport herself first. There is a time constraint here as I believe this is the last year (Brexit transition period) that anyone will be able to get German citizenship while retaining British.

No time constraint.

You are not applying for naturalisation, you already are a German citizen/dual national by birth (we hope). A passport is just documentary evidence of your existing citizenship, not having one does not make you not-German.

I think it would make things a lot easier if you and your mother would at least apply for passports at the same time (get ID cards, too while you are at it - you can travel with just that within the EU without having to lug your passport around), since you have not already had a German passport. You have to show that your mother really is German and she has to show that her father really was German.

A potential pitfall could be that there was some time period in which dual national-born children had to decide for one nationality at 21. I don't know when that was or whether they would apply this when applying for a first passport/ID card as an adult.

Do gather as many documents as you can ad talk to the Embassy, if possible. When I got a new ID card at the Consulate in Edinburgh, they were saying that loads of people were applying for first passports, so your case is not unusual.

If you can't find your grandfather's birth certificate, contact Standesamt 1 in Berlin. Although I think you'd at least have to know where your grandfather was born exactly.

You could apply for a determination of citizenship, but that would take quite some time and I would definitely not do that as a first step. The Embassy will tell you if that's required, usually when, at the time of a first passport application, they are not sure whether you are German or not.

The questions they ask might be helpful for you to determine what is required, especially regarding marriage certificates, naturalisation and joining the armed forces of a country that was not Germany:

https://australien.diplo.de/au-en/servi ... ip/2074756

Thank you very much, this is all very useful information. Also a great relief to hear about no time limit, I was reading information that I guess was more tailored to Brits working in Germany and vice versa, so I guess I got the wrong impression.

I hope that issue with the dual nationality decision does not turn out to be the problem, i.e. they don't apply that rule and determine my mother to have de facto 'decided' when she got her first British passport But what will be will be, I guess I'll find out.