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Should I volunteer the information to HO or will they contact me?

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

dogcat
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tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Hi,

I am EU citizen who's been granted settled status. I have lived in the UK for the past 12 years without any major absences and am currently married to a British Citizen (we got married back in 2010).
I would like to apply for a British citizenship.
My concerns are as follow: I was not employed during the past three years ( only did a course which lasted from February 2017 to August 2017) and got registered as self- employed recently (May 2018)
I have not ever claimed any benefits. How do provide evidence that I was physically present in the UK during the period in question? As it is my understanding that this is likely to be problematic when applying.


Thanks for reading.

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alterhase58
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by alterhase58 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:22 pm

Do you have Permanent Residency (PR) a card or a letter stating the fact?

Employment is not a requirement for naturalisation and receiving benefits you are entitled to is not an issue.

If you can't provide P60 or employer letters then other official documents are needed. Council Tax Bills showing your name, HMRC documents, Child Benefit / pensions documents ideally.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:44 pm

I have been granted 'settled status' which is tantamount to ILR or PR, HO dont issue cards, just and official letter so that shoudn't cause any problems.
I have a record of attending medical appointment so suppose that would be classed as evidence.
I dont have any children so no child benefits etc :D
Its just that gap 2017 august- to 2018 may I am worried about.

kirku
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by kirku » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:36 pm

My wife is also in a similar situation. Largely been looking after our young son during the qualifying period and has no stamps in her passport. Really at a loss as to what evidence to supply? HO being completely unhelpful.

To get Settled Status was quite easy and the list of evidence was clear, but for citizenship it's so vague. Does anybody have some advice for us please?

jgr100
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by jgr100 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:59 pm

My wife was also not working during the qualifying period. We used council tax bills covering part of the qualifying period, some letters from the NHS and a letter from the GP stating when she was registered in the GP from and a list of GP appointments. It worked as she received the approval last month.
Good luck!

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:51 pm

Did she hold a 'Comprehensive Sickness Insurance' when she wasn't working?
As it still seems to be one of the prerequisites for what constitutes 'lawful residence'

Richard W
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:52 pm

jgr100's wife already has PRC/DCPR, so not relevant.

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:15 pm

Is that so? That's be brilliant news !! I too, have settled status and am married to BC, which means I could apply straight away.

It is indeed no longer relevant as when you get ILR/ PR whatever you no longer have to exercise Treaty rights (and yes, EU law still applicable :D ) but how about previous years which count as 'qualifying period' ?

Maybe I'm overthinking it and am mistaken but from what I've read that you would still need to have had a CSI (comprehensive sickness insurance) for the periods when you weren't employed/ self employed during qualifying period in order to be considered lawfully residing in the UK/in breach of immigration law.

It was definitely required under PR scheme but was scrapped when government introduced settled status scheme which made things considerably easier.

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:19 pm

Just to remind you folks, I am not applying for PR/ settled status here (already have ) but Naturalisation.

Richard W
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:48 am

dogcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:15 pm
Maybe I'm overthinking it and am mistaken but from what I've read that you would still need to have had a CSI (comprehensive sickness insurance) for the periods when you weren't employed/ self employed during qualifying period in order to be considered lawfully residing in the UK/in breach of immigration law.

It was definitely required under PR scheme but was scrapped when government introduced settled status scheme which made things considerably easier.
Have you actually heard of people with settled status being refused naturalisation because of the lack of CSI? I don't say it couldn't happen, merely that I haven't heard of it happening.

The relevant employment with regard to CSI is that of the sponsoring EU national when he hasn't achieved PR. For family members, the possible problem with their not being employed is that it makes it more difficult to demonstrate that they were present in the UK. There are two qualifying periods that may be discussed for those naturalising on the basis of being settled through the EU settlement scheme - the 5 years to qualify for settled status, and the 5 (occasionally 3) years preceding the application. The two periods are usually different - usually the overlap is no more than 4 years.

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:46 am

No, I haven't. Its just I just want gather all the information available and then decide whats the best course of action .


I was granted settled status in May 2019 no problem .
In my understanding the qualifying period for the purposes of naturalisation is 3 years in my case (since I am spouse of a British Citizen and can apply immediately after being granted settled status)
I was doing a vocational course from feb 2017- august 2017. Therefore a student or a self sufficient person
aug 2017- april 2018 -wasn't doing anything. During that whole period ( feb217-april2018) I wasn't holding a CSI and was being supported by my husband who was employed and provided for me.
Then in april 2018 I registered myself as self employed so that's fine (still am and pay my taxes etc) so thats fine.

All in all : for the portion of my qualifying period period (2017- april2018 ) I was 'self sufficient' but didn't have CIS. And that could potentially be regarded as 'unlawful residence' since I wasn't properly exercising the treaty rights. And 'lawfull residence' is one of the prerequisites of naturalisation.

Sorry for if its a bit long and convoluted :)

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alterhase58
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by alterhase58 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:51 am

It's not unlawful residence if you didn't have CSI - this would/might only be an issue if you were to apply for a document certifying PR under EU regulations. You are relying on UK immigration rules (Settled Status) which has no requirement for CSI.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:58 am

That's great news, thank you ever so much guys .
Irony of ironies, Brexit actually made it easier :D

Richard W
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:08 pm

alterhase58 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:51 am
It's not unlawful residence if you didn't have CSI - this would/might only be an issue if you were to apply for a document certifying PR under EU regulations. You are relying on UK immigration rules (Settled Status) which has no requirement for CSI.
The requirement is that during the preceding 3 years dogcat not have been 'in breach of the immigration laws'. I believe she was not in breach of the immigration laws because she had already achieved PR. If she had not achieved PR, how would she not have been 'in breach of the immigration laws'? The relevant provision is BNA 1981 Section 50A(4)(e):
A person is in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws if (and only if) the person— ... (e) is not entitled to reside in the United Kingdom by virtue of any provision made under section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972 (whether or not the person was previously entitled);
If not by virtue of already holding PR, what provision do you suggest covers her?

Note that it is possible to be lawfully present while still being 'in breach of the immigration laws'. It's a horribly misleading phrase.

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:44 pm

I have never achieved PR under the 'old' scheme, but was granted settled status which dos not require CSI.

So since I took a settled status route (which does not require CSI) and will be relying on it when applying for naturalisation is it the case that HO will be disregarding it too ?

Richard W
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:28 pm

dogcat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:44 pm
So since I took a settled status route (which does not require CSI) and will be relying on it when applying for naturalisation is it the case that HO will be disregarding it too ?
But you only joined that route when you were granted settled status. Until then, your status for nationality law depended on the EEA Regulations.

I don't know what the HO will do. At one extreme, they might disregard the need for CSI; at the other, they might insist that you cannot apply until 10 years after you became self-employed.

jgr100
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by jgr100 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:29 pm

dogcat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:44 pm
I have never achieved PR under the 'old' scheme, but was granted settled status which dos not require CSI.

So since I took a settled status route (which does not require CSI) and will be relying on it when applying for naturalisation is it the case that HO will be disregarding it too ?
If you were working for the first 9 years, you probably did achieve PR (after year 5) even if you did not apply for a document certifying PR, which you would also would have probably been able to get even if you did not have CSI the last three years.

You also would not have needed CSI, even if not working, if your spouse was an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights.

In any case, that is not a requirement for your naturalsation application, and as I mentioned in a previous post, you can use other documents to prove residency in the UK over the last 3 years.

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:37 pm

I was never employed/self employed for 5 years continuously during the years I've spent in the UK as mainly studied (and never held CSI).

Yes, my spouse was working and did support me. But does British citizen working in the UK (his home country) constitute 'exercising treaty rights'?

Richard W
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:54 pm

dogcat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:37 pm
Yes, my spouse was working and did support me. But does British citizen working in the UK (his home country) constitute 'exercising treaty rights'?
As you seem to have lived together only in the UK, no, I'm afraid you can't use Surinder Singh, (There's nothing in Surinder Singh that restricts it to non-EEA family members.)

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:15 pm

I think I ought to seek some professional advice as from what I've read experiences seem to differ/conflict :D

Worst case scenario I'll wait till next year so my qualifying period is fully covered.

Richard W
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by Richard W » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:16 pm

dogcat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:15 pm
I think I ought to seek some professional advice as from what I've read experiences seem to differ/conflict :D
Good luck with finding competent professional advice.

dogcat
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Re: tricky -Re Naturalisation as British citizen - not employed during qualifying period

Post by dogcat » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:44 pm

i just actually thought of something.

So my first entry to the UK was in june 2006 -was employed sporadically (during which time I held european insurance card or whatever that is and never claimed benefits of any sort lol :D )
Then from year 2010 august to june 2011 was in employed full time.

Does that make me a qualified person under the PR shceme.?

dogcat
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Where earnings too low and didn't register HMRC genuine self employment?

Post by dogcat » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:46 am

For example I was freelancing during tax year 2017-18 but didn't register with HMRC and didn't do self assessment as earnings were too low (but I did in the subsequent year as was earning lots more ) or that won't be classed as genuine self employment ?

dogcat
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Should I volunteer the information to HO or will they contact me?

Post by dogcat » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:18 am

So ..Just submitted my application and theres that csi issue AGAIN :evil:

Thing is- I arrived in UK in 2006, worked on and of (never claimed benefits of any kind) but was covered by health insurance back in my country (held EHIC cardat some point but its long lost now :mrgreen: ) for a period of 4 years and then worked the 5th year of my qualifying period- this probably makes me a 'qualified person' therefore I no longer needed to exercise treaty rights since year 2011.

I have never applied for PR card under the 'old' scheme but was granted settled status last year.

However it asks for CSI for the past (3 years in my case) of your 'qualifying period' in case you were student or self sufficient. In my understanding, this does not apply to me as I was a 'qualified person' since 2011 and therefore no need to exercise the treaty rights any further.

Should I go out of my way and address this issue myself in any way or will the HO contact me in case they need extra info?

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Re: Should I volunteer the information to HO or will they contact me?

Post by Frou01 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:06 am

Regarding lawful residence it’s about the qualifying years
only.
Of course you provide all info of last ten years of work in your form.

You don’t need to contact them as you have the option to provide a cover letter with your documents explaining why you didn’t have csi at some point during your qualifying period.
I had a lawyer writing me a cover letter explaining everything.

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