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Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Only for UK Student Visas, formerly known as Tier 4 (General) student visa

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A101
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Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by A101 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:40 pm

Hello everyone,

I was hoping on some opinions and suggestions on my UK Tier 4 case.

I have received a sponsored PhD offer from a UK university. It is very favourable and something I really want to avail. My case is tricky in the sense that I want to apply with my dependents (a 5 year old and a newborn). My spouse is currently not residing in our home country, but working at a reputable company in a European country. He does not want to leave his job, but is agreeable with me taking our children to the UK. It would in fact make it easier for him as well to visit us frequently, in comparison to our home country where he could only make one/two trips per year.

I have the resources (finances) to show for my 2 dependents and I have already contacted schools/childminders in the region of my university to adjust my kids - I have received favourable replies.

I just wanted an opinion regarding my case and how much stronger I can try to make it with supporting documents. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 am

Hello

I have never seen a similar query but you would have to convince the caseworker during the interview that you:

- are serious about studying while having 2 children at your charge including a new born

- you can pay full time for their nursery / child minder.

A nursery near where I live charge £1350 a month for a child full time (8 - 17:00). Plus extra if you drop him before 8 or pick-up after 17:00. Also, if the kid has fever or is unwell (sometimes kids are like that for 2 / 3 weeks solid) you have to stop whatever you are doing and go to collect your child. If you are student, it means you are absent very frequently.

The other one, 5 years old, is at the compulsory school age in the UK. Read this:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-adm ... s-children

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by CR001 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:57 am

Immigration Rules Part 8 - para 319H explains the immigration rules requirement for Children of PBS migrants.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... ly-members

The fact that their father is not applying for a visa could result in the children being refused entry clearance as you would not be able to evidence sole responsibility.
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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by A101 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:29 pm

I applied and received my entry clearance, however my children were refused. This was anticipated perhaps.

I had further sent an administrative review for reconsideration of the case, however, they have stayed with the original decision.

In the review they mentioned "I note that there was no evidence submitted in support of your application that meets the requirements of 319H (f) (iii). After conducting further checks via the relevant administrative review process, it has been confirmed that the various documents you claim to have submitted with your application as proof of “serious or compelling family considerations” were not provided in support your application."

In this case, what evidence can be provided? My children are young and need me. I mentioned that I have shown the maintenance funds for them (this was provided with initial application) and further contacted schools and daycares, and also arranged an accommodation. For 'evidence' would I need to get formal letters from the school, daycare and book the accommodation?

I do not have sole responsibility for the children hence I cannot show evidence for that. Is there any thing else that I can do from my home country? Or can I travel to the UK and upon making these arrangements for them apply again with hopes of success?

I know the immigration rules are clear and the success of what I want to achieve may be bleak..but I am trying my best to try on all fronts before giving up. Any advise would be much appreciated.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by sah10406 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:44 pm

A101 wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:29 pm
In this case, what evidence can be provided? My children are young and need me. I mentioned that I have shown the maintenance funds for them (this was provided with initial application) and further contacted schools and daycares, and also arranged an accommodation. For 'evidence' would I need to get formal letters from the school, daycare and book the accommodation?
It sounds like you omitted to provide evidence that you meet one of the provisions of paragraph 319H(f), and you cannot provide that information now. Your options seem limited to new applications. The refusal quotes specifically from the immigration rules that say unless the other parent is not living or the main migrant has sole responsibility, the case worker will need to be satisfied that

there are serious or compelling family or other considerations which would make it desirable not to refuse the application and suitable arrangements have been made in the UK for the applicant’s care.

I would advise discussing any new application for your children with the international student adviser at your university. They are likely to have met students in similar situations before.

There is no specific proscribed evidence required, but that is a good thing. It leaves it open for you to make your own case with whatever evidence you feel supports it.

Probably the best starting point for your case and your evidence is to imagine that case worker feels that the children could stay with their other parent rather than coming to the UK with you. Your mission is to explain and demonstrate why that is not feasible.

Good luck.
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by A101 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:54 pm

Thanks so much for your reply. I do understand I would have to make a fresh application. I am figuring out what I can provide for that.

I attached the following evidence in the first application:
1. Consent letter from the father agreeing for them to travel and stay with me
2. Contract for accommodation
3. Required maintenance funds in my personal accounts

I did communicate with schools and daycares in the area and received positive responses from them. But as they were not confirmed (they said arrangements would be confirmed once we were there) I could not attach any evidence regarding it.

I mentioned that my kids are very young (I am nursing the younger one) - and have lived the majority of their lives with me, while the father was away. However that did not seem enough. Even if the father was in the home country, I feel its understood that they way a mother can take care of her young children noone else can. I am working on how to prove this.

Any other guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by sah10406 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:11 pm

A101 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:54 pm
I mentioned that my kids are very young (I am nursing the younger one) - and have lived the majority of their lives with me, while the father was away. However that did not seem enough. Even if the father was in the home country, I feel its understood that they way a mother can take care of her young children noone else can. I am working on how to prove this.
That sounds a good strategy. Again, I would recommend talking it through with the international student adviser at the university.
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by A101 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:59 pm

Thanks - I am trying to figure out what evidence to gather for it.

I spoke to the university. Though they have not had a similar case, they have suggested to mention details of the childcare facilities that I contacted.

I am wondering if emails would suffice as evidence or would I require to book (through payments) places for the children and then show formal letters (i.e. with letterheads) of the confirmation that there is space available for them.

Is there any legal document that my husband/their father can present stating that he is handing me guardianship over them for the duration of this time? Could that be considered

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by sah10406 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:17 pm

A101 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:59 pm
I am wondering if emails would suffice as evidence or would I require to book (through payments) places for the children and then show formal letters (i.e. with letterheads) of the confirmation that there is space available for them.

Is there any legal document that my husband/their father can present stating that he is handing me guardianship over them for the duration of this time?
I don't understand how any of that will demonstrate that there are "serious or compelling family or other considerations which would make it desirable not to refuse the application".
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by A101 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:34 pm

The things I mentioned are to address 'suitable arrangements in the UK' to which they have said I have shown no evidence.

My main ground for 'serious and compelling' is that the children are very young and have been in my care for the majority of their life. I have been handling their day-to-day, schooling, health and emotional needs. Even the father cannot take care as he himself has been away for 5 years and only visits for a few weeks a year. Further his work commitments would not allow him to be there full time for them and also is required to travel. No other relative is capable of taking care of them in the home country.

These are serious and compelling reasons for the welfare of the children - in my opinion. I cannot say they would have the same opinion.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by sah10406 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:38 am

A101 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:34 pm
The things I mentioned are to address 'suitable arrangements in the UK' to which they have said I have shown no evidence.
Ah okay. The part of the refusal letter you quoted said you were missing the evidence of "serious and compelling family circumstances", so I took that at face value. But yes, you also need evidence of the "suitable arrangements" for their care in the UK.
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by A101 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:09 pm

sah10406 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:38 am
A101 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:34 pm
The things I mentioned are to address 'suitable arrangements in the UK' to which they have said I have shown no evidence.
Ah okay. The part of the refusal letter you quoted said you were missing the evidence of "serious and compelling family circumstances", so I took that at face value. But yes, you also need evidence of the "suitable arrangements" for their care in the UK.
Yes, they have said there wasn't enough evidence for both.
Any suggestions of what evidence would suffice in this case?

Also, just a query, would the children be able to apply for visitor visa?

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by sah10406 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:48 am

A101 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:09 pm
Any suggestions of what evidence would suffice in this case?
It depends what specific case you are making. I would advise discussing it with a professional.
A101 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:09 pm
would the children be able to apply for visitor visa?
If they are not coming to live with you after all, yes.
I do not give immigration advice. I refer you to Immigration Rules, guidance, other online content and to your sponsor.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by A101 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:42 pm

sah10406 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:48 am
A101 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:09 pm
Any suggestions of what evidence would suffice in this case?
It depends what specific case you are making. I would advise discussing it with a professional.
A101 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:09 pm
would the children be able to apply for visitor visa?
If they are not coming to live with you after all, yes.
Thanks for all your help! God bless

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by ALKB » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm

A101 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:34 pm
The things I mentioned are to address 'suitable arrangements in the UK' to which they have said I have shown no evidence.

My main ground for 'serious and compelling' is that the children are very young and have been in my care for the majority of their life. I have been handling their day-to-day, schooling, health and emotional needs. Even the father cannot take care as he himself has been away for 5 years and only visits for a few weeks a year. Further his work commitments would not allow him to be there full time for them and also is required to travel. No other relative is capable of taking care of them in the home country.

These are serious and compelling reasons for the welfare of the children - in my opinion. I cannot say they would have the same opinion.
Did you get a letter from your husband's employer stating work hours and travel obligations?

In the consent letter, did your husband mention that he is in fact unable to take care of the children due to work commitments?

What's your husband's visa situation in the country he lives in right now? Would the visa even allow to apply for dependents? After all, you haven't been living there with him for the last five years, so are there legal obstacles?
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by A101 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:21 am

ALKB wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm
A101 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:34 pm
The things I mentioned are to address 'suitable arrangements in the UK' to which they have said I have shown no evidence.

My main ground for 'serious and compelling' is that the children are very young and have been in my care for the majority of their life. I have been handling their day-to-day, schooling, health and emotional needs. Even the father cannot take care as he himself has been away for 5 years and only visits for a few weeks a year. Further his work commitments would not allow him to be there full time for them and also is required to travel. No other relative is capable of taking care of them in the home country.

These are serious and compelling reasons for the welfare of the children - in my opinion. I cannot say they would have the same opinion.
Did you get a letter from your husband's employer stating work hours and travel obligations?

In the consent letter, did your husband mention that he is in fact unable to take care of the children due to work commitments?

What's your husband's visa situation in the country he lives in right now? Would the visa even allow to apply for dependents? After all, you haven't been living there with him for the last five years, so are there legal obstacles?
Thanks so much for your message.

No, I did not attach such a letter from my husband's employer, there was only one mentioning that he is an employee there. Thanks for this idea, I will try to get such a letter prepared.

No - once again - the letter did not specifically say that he would be unable to take care of them. I am preparing another consent letter for the new application in which we will specify this. Thanks again.

He is in a situation where he could invite his family, now that he is working. He attained this status around the same time I got the PhD offer. Before that he could not invite us. We did try visit and other venues, but we were refused. And now receiving this study offer in the UK, I want to avail it.

Please do share any other advice you may have. Kind regards,

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Re: Tier 4 visa case - PhD studies with dependents but without spouse

Post by ALKB » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:47 pm

A101 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:21 am
ALKB wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm
A101 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:34 pm
The things I mentioned are to address 'suitable arrangements in the UK' to which they have said I have shown no evidence.

My main ground for 'serious and compelling' is that the children are very young and have been in my care for the majority of their life. I have been handling their day-to-day, schooling, health and emotional needs. Even the father cannot take care as he himself has been away for 5 years and only visits for a few weeks a year. Further his work commitments would not allow him to be there full time for them and also is required to travel. No other relative is capable of taking care of them in the home country.

These are serious and compelling reasons for the welfare of the children - in my opinion. I cannot say they would have the same opinion.
Did you get a letter from your husband's employer stating work hours and travel obligations?

In the consent letter, did your husband mention that he is in fact unable to take care of the children due to work commitments?

What's your husband's visa situation in the country he lives in right now? Would the visa even allow to apply for dependents? After all, you haven't been living there with him for the last five years, so are there legal obstacles?
Thanks so much for your message.

No, I did not attach such a letter from my husband's employer, there was only one mentioning that he is an employee there. Thanks for this idea, I will try to get such a letter prepared.

No - once again - the letter did not specifically say that he would be unable to take care of them. I am preparing another consent letter for the new application in which we will specify this. Thanks again.

He is in a situation where he could invite his family, now that he is working. He attained this status around the same time I got the PhD offer. Before that he could not invite us. We did try visit and other venues, but we were refused. And now receiving this study offer in the UK, I want to avail it.

Please do share any other advice you may have. Kind regards,
To be very honest, I think it is unlikely for your children to get a Tier 4 dependent visa under these circumstances (or visitor visas, now that a long term application has been refused already) but when trying, you really have to paint a picture of the situation. The person processing the application only knows what you tell them.

So, provide details about your husband's situation, his accommodation (big enough for him and two children?), availability and affordability of daycare places in his area - I don't know which country he is in so I have no idea about the system but in many cases there are long wait lists and parents register children for daycare at birth to get a place years (!!) later, compatibility of his work hours with day care hours, need to travel for work, etc.

That he has never taken care of children on his own and that a mother can do this better will not be a valid argument and I would not go into this too much. It's more of a cultural issue and the ICO will think that he is a parent and if need be he just has to step up and learn how to take care of his children. Make it about his circumstances, not about his personal inability/unwillingness to be a geographical single dad.

On another note, as a woman married to a Pakistani and having lived, worked and studied in the UK with my two children (a lot older than yours!) while my husband was working on another continent, I feel a bit concerned.

Have you ever lived on your own? Totally on your own without the help of parents/parents-in-law/siblings/other extended family in the same household?

Don't underestimate the stress and pressure when you are the only adult to take care of absolutely everything.

As a plan B, have you considered applying for uni where your husband lives? Most European countries offer post graduate degree programmes in English and if you get a dependent visa you may not even need a student visa to study (depending on which country we are talking about).
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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