ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

General UK immigration & work permits; don't post job search or family related topics!

Please use this section of the board if there is no specific section for your query.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

Locked
Aleena_wasiq1
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:38 pm
Pakistan

Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Aleena_wasiq1 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:09 am

Hi,

My sister’s UK visit visa was refused from Pakistan with a reason that she doesn’t have enough funds to support in the UK. However, in the sponsor letter I did say that I will be financially supporting her.

Please can you advise if I can apply for PAP?

Thanks,
Aleena

BigMo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:27 am

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by BigMo » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:51 am

Hey

Did you provide sponsor's bank statements/payslips etc? I imagine they would expect to see evidence of funds in addition to the undertaking that the sponsor would pay for the visit (so in addition to a letter stating that you would sponsor her, they would need to see that you have enough funds to sponsor her, such as salary or other regular income coming to your bank account/funds in sponsor's bank (or access to funds) to cover travel & accommodation etc.

My parents have submitted their visit visa application and I am the sponsor, so I had to demonstrate that I can afford to pay for their visit (in addition to the undertaking that I will pay for the visit).

Also, did she say so in the application form? The online form has a section asking for the details of funding for the visit. The sponsor evidence will need to be consistent with the answers in the online application form.

Aleena_wasiq1
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:38 pm
Pakistan

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Aleena_wasiq1 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:16 am

Hi,

I did provide my bank statement, payslips and all the documents required to show that i can support her. They even confirmed in the refusal that they were happy with my documents but still refused the visa.

And it was also confirmed on the online form that i will be financially responsible for the cost of the visit.

Thanks,
Aleena

BigMo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:27 am

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by BigMo » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:37 am

That doesn't seem to make sense to me. If they accepted your documents as sponsor, then how does that correlate with lack of sufficient funds in the UK (?) Did the application say that your sister will cover some of her costs herself but did not provide any evidence for that perhaps?

Aleena_wasiq1
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:38 pm
Pakistan

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Aleena_wasiq1 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:41 am

Hi,

Please see below response from UKVI-

You are applying to visit the UK for 11 days to visit your immediate family. I recognize the importance of family visits; however, in order to assess your application and intentions, I have to take into consideration your own personal, social and financial circumstances.
 I am aware that you were previously refused entry clearance in 2016. I have considered your previous application in addition to the evidence and information you have submitted in this, your current, application and in assessing your application in its entirety, I am not satisfied that you have met the Immigration Rules on this occasion.
 You have stated that your sponsor will be responsible for all expenses relating to your proposed visit to the UK. In support of your application you have submitted a bank statement from your sponsor and a letter confirming their intention to fund your proposed visit to the UK. Whilst I am satisfied that the proposed sponsor is in a position to financially support your visit, and I take that into account in assessing your proposed maintenance and accommodation in the UK, that is only one aspect of the visitor rules and this sponsorship does not satisfy me of your own intention to leave the UK on completion of your visit.
 You state that you are employed as an assistant manager production and earn 40000PKR (£202.69) a month. In support of this you have provided a letter from your employer and salary slips to demonstrate your employment. However, you state that you spend 30000PKR (£152.01) a month. Therefore, your monthly leftover income is 10000PKR (£50.67). You state that you plan to personally spend 150000PKR (£760.08) in your trip to the UK which I note is 15 times your monthly leftover income. I note that you have not declared any other income or savings. I am not satisfied that it is reasonable to make this proposed expenditure, given your domestic and financial circumstances, on a holiday to the UK.
 You have provided a personal bank statement (account number ending in *0303). I note that your salary is reflected in this statement. However, I note that the closing balance of your account as of 11/02/2020 is 184220.62PKR (£933.49). I do not find it credible that you plan to use the majority of your funds held in your account on an 11- day visit to the UK.
 Given the above and on balance of probabilities, I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor or will leave the UK after a limited period. Your application for a visit visa is refused under paragraph V4.2 (a) and (c).

THO
- thin ice -
Posts: 532
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:12 am
Vietnam

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by THO » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:51 am

Having been in this situation, I would not bother re-applying as you will not get a visa now, sorry to say. I think the ECO believes she will be spending her money on the trip, because she said she would spend £760 of £933 savings for 11 days. Even if you now explain that £760 is what you expect the trip to cost and that her savings will not be used as you are paying for her trip, you will not get the visa. Even if you explain this money was saved especially for the trip, they will not accept it.

I'm afraid it is disappointing, but there are a large number of people who fail to return (just read this board and see how many illegal's there are here) and they have made it almost impossible for well good people to get their visa.

BigMo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:27 am

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by BigMo » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:58 am

Reading the refusal, it seems that your sister indicated that she will spend some of her own money on the trip (instead of you covering the entirety of the trip). Assuming this is in line with what she intended to do (?)

What the ECO seems to be questioning is the 'reasonableness' of fact that she plans to spend an amount that is 15x her monthly net disposable income (look at this another way, that's 15 months' worth of savings, assuming she saves her leftover income every month) on an 11 day trip to the UK. Whether something is reasonable or not is subjective in nature - so I imagine each ECO will make their own judgement about this.

Perhaps more experienced members can comment on the rationale by the ECO (and whether a PAP is worth it given the subjectivity of the judgement).

Aleena_wasiq1
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:38 pm
Pakistan

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Aleena_wasiq1 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:04 am

Oh okay, thank you for explaning it.

Do you think I should submit a new application saying that she will not spend any of her fundings at all and I will be fully responsible for her?

Thanks,
Aleena

THO
- thin ice -
Posts: 532
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:12 am
Vietnam

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by THO » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:10 am

No, you will waste your money now. Almost nothing will change this decision now, and the explanation will be turned by the ECO into a way to try to change what you stated to suit the refusal and overcome the objection.

User avatar
Zerubbabel
Respected Guru
Posts: 2517
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:33 pm

Why was the visa refused in 2016?

Is she married? Does she have kids in her country?

How many other family members are in the UK?

Aleena_wasiq1
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:38 pm
Pakistan

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Aleena_wasiq1 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:23 pm

Hi,

The visa was refused because she doesn’t have enough social ties.

She is not married and doesn’t have any kids, but my parents are dependant on her as she is their only above 18 working child in Pakistan.

Thanks,
Aleena

Route to ILR
Member of Standing
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:11 pm

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Route to ILR » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:57 pm

Aleena_wasiq1 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:23 pm
Hi,

The visa was refused because she doesn’t have enough social ties.

She is not married and doesn’t have any kids, but my parents are dependant on her as she is their only above 18 working child in Pakistan.

Thanks,
Aleena
Hi,
Have u done your research before applying this time??? How on earth she applied with 185000 rupees in her account even u r sponsoring the full trip?????

ECO take account and give more weight to her financial circumstances than your's. Now she has one more refusal on her passport.

As she is single over 18 from Pakistan according to ECO's balance of probabilities she is a high risk for claiming asylum or will not go back. Even if she apply again with good bank statement they will refuse her again.

She is only over 18 child for your parent but in the eyes of the law she is an adult.

Sorry if it sounds bit harsh but years of abuse of visit visa route ended up like this. They r very very strict these days.
I got my mother visit visa approved after 2 refusals and 2nd time they brought up this asylum thing as well because after my father death we were in process to transfer the house to our names through court (which is a normal practice) by mistake i mentioned it in the application in a good sense that she also has property share but they called her for interview and asked question about her intentions about asylum which she denied but they refused her visa. But 3rd time i applied, approched my local mp, explained him everything he helped me a lot and visa got issued.

She has more chances of success if she apply study visa then visit visa.

User avatar
Zerubbabel
Respected Guru
Posts: 2517
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:39 pm

Visitor visas are like credit applications.

The more you apply, the more desperate you sound and your credit score drops.

They hold the view that she is not a genuine visitor. They think she does have stronger ties to the UK than to her home country. That if she comes to the UK, she is not going to leave.

Sometimes the fact that the person has relatives/close family in the UK is a bad indicator. It means the person has a support network and stronger incentive to stay no matter what (including illegally and applying under 20 year route or with a kid in 7 years... etc).

Then, further tries would just confirm their initial feeling about the applicant. Usually, unless the circumstances change dramatically, there is no point applying again.

User avatar
seagul
Diamond Member
Posts: 10201
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:23 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by seagul » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:08 pm

Zerubbabel wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:39 pm
Visitor visas are like credit applications.

The more you apply, the more desperate you sound and your credit score drops
.
Who told you that or where have you read that. Credit score never falls if you keep on applying credit and also is never affected even if you get denial.
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

User avatar
Zerubbabel
Respected Guru
Posts: 2517
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:35 am

My banker :) Ask yours.

As you keep applying for credit, this causes searches on your credit file. Too many searches over a period of time, means the person is applying everywhere without getting anything. Lenders don't like this pattern.

User avatar
seagul
Diamond Member
Posts: 10201
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:23 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by seagul » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:38 am

Zerubbabel wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:35 am
My banker :) Ask yours.

As you keep applying for credit, this causes searches on your credit file. Too many searches over a period of time, means the person is applying everywhere without getting anything. Lenders don't like this pattern.
Ignore his/her advice. Ring/write to experian/Equifax and ask same.
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

THO
- thin ice -
Posts: 532
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:12 am
Vietnam

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by THO » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:08 am

How can you be so arrogant Seagul? You are totally wrong about credit score, applying for credit increases has a negative effect on your score, fact.

Often your advice is very poor and you give it in such a way that you are some sort of expert, and then when you are corrected, you try to explain that you are right. You have been called up before a number of times by people you gave bad advice to.

User avatar
seagul
Diamond Member
Posts: 10201
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:23 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by seagul » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:21 am

THO wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:08 am
How can you be so arrogant Seagul? You are totally wrong about credit score, applying for credit increases has a negative effect on your score, fact.

Often your advice is very poor and you give it in such a way that you are some sort of expert, and then when you are corrected, you try to explain that you are right. You have been called up before a number of times by people you gave bad advice to.



Usually I don't respond to your queries due to your behaviour or wherever you are unnecessarily writing and suggesting others to use solicitor as you used them and paid around £725 to get success although actually was benefited from board. Read below the official reply from experian and then don't come back to argue as the thread might be going out of its subject.
Dear Experian,
Do credit card inquiries hurt you long-term? If I apply for credit and am denied, how many points will my score drop?
Dear PYL,
It's true that inquiries can have an effect on your credit scores, but in most cases the effect of applying for credit cards is minimal, and any effect they do have is temporary.

An inquiry is simply a record that your credit report has been accessed. Your credit report will show an inquiry when you apply for credit after the lender reviews your report. Experian will not know whether you are approved or declined, so being denied credit will not affect your credit scores.
https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-expe ... rt-credit/
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

THO
- thin ice -
Posts: 532
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:12 am
Vietnam

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by THO » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:31 am

Seagul, I work in that industry for a very big credit rating company, so I know of what i am speaking. You apply for too many cards, and bank loans and you will end up with a poor credit rating, fact. Try it, and when you start to get turned down, it will happen a lot. And how many ads do you hear where the bank says they will pre-approve your loan before they apply for a credit reference so your score is not hit?

But the info you sent actually backs up the point you are trying to disprove.

User avatar
seagul
Diamond Member
Posts: 10201
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:23 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by seagul » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:43 am

THO wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:31 am
Seagul, I work in that industry for a very big credit rating company, so I know of what i am speaking. You apply for too many cards, and bank loans and you will end up with a poor credit rating, fact. Try it, and when you start to get turned down, it will happen a lot. And how many ads do you hear where the bank says they will pre-approve your loan before they apply for a credit reference so your score is not hit?

But the info you sent actually backs up the point you are trying to disprove.
I personally know so many in similar circumstances who never ever had any issue. You can cross check from Equifax and other leading credit search companies who will confirm same despite many people even the bankers have different theory about credit scoring. I m off now as its taking out the thread from its real subject but the previous poster given incorrect resemblance between credit score & visit visa application.
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

THO
- thin ice -
Posts: 532
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:12 am
Vietnam

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by THO » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:50 am

We agree on that last point Saegul. Sorry to the OP, and if Admin wants to delete this section I have no objections.

User avatar
Zerubbabel
Respected Guru
Posts: 2517
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:55 am

@Seagul

There are soft and hard checks. The soft checks are made when you apply for a car insurance quote or similar. They won't influence your score.

In other hand, you have hard checks. They are typical when filling a loan application. The lender performs a hard check and can also see hard checks performed by other lenders.

What my banker told me is that a succession of hard checks makes you unsuitable for most lenders as you look desperate and applying everywhere for a loan. It can also sends towards you offers from lenders who specialised on desperate borrowers. They offer little money with high/extortionate interest rate.

Aleena_wasiq1
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:38 pm
Pakistan

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Aleena_wasiq1 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:40 pm

Hi,

I do understand that it’s really hard for my sister to get a visa but I really want her to come for my birthday and that’s what I said on the form too.

Is it okay if I just give PAP a try and send another letter saying that instead of my sister using any of her saving I will pay for everything, I won’t even let her use her £700 savings here either as I fully capable to support her.

My application shows strong social ties of her going back to my country because my parents rely on her both financially and physically.

Thanks,
Aleena

THO
- thin ice -
Posts: 532
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:12 am
Vietnam

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by THO » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:50 pm

You can only try, but I expect it will fail again. I had same sort of thing and my now wife was not allowed even when she had a lot of savings and I said I would pay for everything and ensure she returned to her well paid professional job. And she had a lot of travel already including Europe without any faults.

User avatar
Zerubbabel
Respected Guru
Posts: 2517
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Mood:

Re: Sister’s Visit Visa Refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:55 pm

You can try but I don't believe in a positive outcome.

Having her parents there is not strong enough tie. I don't think a lot of people managed to sell that idea to the Home Office.

Strong ties are: kids and husband staying behind, a well paid job/career/senior position in home country, owning a property or owing a business... etc. But just having parents for an adult is not enough.

Yourself, you have your parents there but still you live in the UK. Why not her? There is already a history of immigration in the family.

Locked
cron