Help in understanding the rules. Salary rates: new entrant or experienced. Tier 2 general

Hello everyone!
I really hope for your help and will be very grateful!

Recently I graduated from French university (master's degree), but originally I am from outside EU. I am 27 years old.

I've got an offer from a company with A licence. The job is in the shortage occupation list under the code 2129 Engineering professionals not elsewhere classified (All jobs in this occupation code). The initial contract is planned to be for 3 years.

During the interview they did not ask me about my age (since the most important was to discuss my skills) and due to the fact that Tier 2 sponsorship is quite new for them, as well as I did not pay a lot of attention before, they proposed me a salary as for "new entrant", which is for code 2129 - £27400. A few days ago we found out that there is an age limitation to be classified as a new entrant, but in fact I am from university and the position is for a graduate engineer, which had been advertised at a very popular UK recruiter website for about 10 months.

So if I apply for a Tier 2 visa under a new entrant, more likely my application will be rejected, Is it so?
Because the company hopes that when I apply there is a human who can clearly see that I am a graduate applying for a visa into a graduate engineer role and that is doesn’t matter that I am over 25...

Are there any other additional cases or conditions to fulfil, when I can be classified as a new entrant?

From my personal investigations:
I found these statements (from appendix J):


At first glance, (i) and (iii) are definitely not suitable for me, but what about (ii) !?...from the first row of Table 11B:

• Does it mean that all these three methods (points) should be done, or at least one of them?
• So even if the job in the shortage occupation list and the company did not find anyone during this Resident Labour Market Test, described in the first row of Table 11B, does it mean that in this case I can still (I am over 26, applying outside the UK) be considered as a new entrant?
• Also I can't find any information regarding eligibility criteria for a ‘new entrant’ into a shortage occupation, I mean does a company still need to do this Resident Labour Market Test, described in the first row of Table 11B if the job into a shortage occupation?

Thank you!

Sorry if I was not clear enough and let me know please, I will explain better.

Hello

Do you hold a visa for the UK at the moment? Such as a Tier 4?

People who study and graduate in the UK have better entry conditions to switch to Tier 2. The guidance you find about new graduates switching to Tier 2, are for graduates in the UK under Tier 4 and switching to Tier 2.

So if your professional target is the UK, you need to study in the UK if you want to benefit from these rules.

As you didn't study in the UK and you are over 26, you can't use the "new entrant" salary limit but the "experienced" salary.

The Home Office are not flexible about eligibility criteria. They are not going to think "this company seems desperate. They couldn't fine someone to hire for 10 months, let's close out eyes on the rules...".

It's up to you as an applicant to apply under a category for which you meet the eligibility criteria. You cannot take a category where you don't fit in the hope that they won't care too much about the criteria. You would just get a refusal if you do so.

The aim behind these salary limits is to avoid employers getting abroad people willing to work for less. This would drive the market down.

If they are that desperate, they need to increase the salary so it reaches "experienced" level. If they do, this would require a new advertisement of the job. It's possible that they couldn't find anyone because the salary offered was too low for the valuation of these skills in the UK market.

All the best.

Hello,

Thank you for your reply and explaining the things.

Yes, I have never studied in the UK and had any "working" visa...The UK is not really my professional target, but the company, I think, is a really good start in my career. It's been very difficult to find something in my field dedicated for graduates, because many companies are looking only for experienced engineers. And there is eternal question, like where to get this first experience...

Sorry, but I did not get or missed or could you please answer to my question, because now I confused in the law interpretation:

Considering highlighted point (ii) in the Table 11CA (picture above). So even if the job in the shortage occupation list and the company did not find anyone during this Resident Labour Market Test, described in the first row of Table 11B (University milkround visits and so on..., picture above), does it mean that in this case I can still (I am over 26, applying outside the UK) be considered as a new entrant? Or I am wrong?

Also I can't find any information regarding eligibility criteria for a ‘new entrant’ into a shortage occupation, I mean does a company still need to do this Resident Labour Market Test, described in the first row of Table 11B if the job into a shortage occupation?

anyone else, please?

I still hope for your reply! Please

Hello everyone!

The question will be about Tier 2 General application under the 'new entrant'.
I really hope for your help! Please give an advise if you have experienced this or you are aware in this topic, since this is really important for me!

Me and my prospective employer finding the rules ambiguous or don't understand them, and we need a comprehensive advice since there is a risk that if we apply for a visa it might be refused.

So the situation is following and the main question: can I be considered as a "new entrant"?:
Recently I graduated from an university within EU (master's degree) and have not yet worked on my degree. Originally I am from outside EU (non-EEA). I am 27 years old.

I've got an offer from a company with A licence. The job for a graduate engineer role and it is in the shortage occupation list under the code 2129 Engineering professionals not elsewhere classified (All jobs in this occupation code). The initial contract is planned to be for 3 years.

In the immigration rules appendix A, Table 11CA (please see attached picture) there are explanations/definitions regarding who is considered as a 'new entrant'



At first glance, points (i) and (iii) are definitely not suitable for me, but what about (ii) !?...The first row of the Table 11B please see in the attached picture above.

Questions:
1. So even if the job in the shortage occupation list and the company did not find anyone during this Resident Labour Market Test, described in the first row of Table 11B, does it mean that in this case I can still (I am over 26, applying outside the UK) be considered as a new entrant?

2. And there is an ambiguity: But actually does a company still need to do this Resident Labour Market Test, described in the first row of Table 11B, if the job into a shortage occupation?

in other worlds: Does it mean that if the job for a graduate role and it is in the shortage occupation list, the person over 26, but recently graduated outside the UK, can still be considered as a new entrant?


Thank you!

I cannot answer your questions.

Perhaps seek professional legal advice or ask your sponsor to get legal advice or advice from the sponsor helpline

Someone applying outside the UK can only be a "new entrant" if they are under 26 when they apply.

A CoS issued for a shortage occupation does not need to demonstrate that the employer has run the resident labour market test.

However, and more importantly, your employer needs to get proper advice on the Tier 2 sponsorship requirements and probably on their sponsor duties and responsibilities too. This is not something for them to ask you to do for them, especially not via an online forum like this, and especially because you (quite understandably, because it's not your concern or responsibility) do not have an understanding the key concepts like the "new entrant" salary, the shortage occupation list, and the resident labour market test.

Agree with the comment above, despite completely understandable your worry, it is a duty of the company to be clear and compliant with all the rules when hiring someone under a Tier 2.

As the subject of the post mentions salary rates and you are worrying about that too, I can say that it does not matter if the company offer you a salary lower than the indicated in the table. From what I have seen so far, that happens all the time and it seems that the Home Office does not care too much about salary thresholds.

When I switched from Tier 4 to Tier 2 the salary in the CoS was way lower than the "requirement" for an experienced candidate, and my application was successful. The HO never asked why my salary was lower or anything like that. Worth to mention that my occupation was in the shortage list too.

Cheers.

lolo2 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:47 pm

As the subject of the post mentions salary rates and you are worrying about that too, I can say that it does not matter if the company offer you a salary lower than the indicated in the table. From what I have seen so far, that happens all the time and it seems that the Home Office does not care too much about salary thresholds

Absolutely and dangerously false! See below.

lolo2 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:47 pm

When I switched from Tier 4 to Tier 2 the salary in the CoS was way lower than the "requirement" for an experienced candidate, and my application was successful. The HO never asked why my salary was lower or anything like that.

Because you were in a totally different situation to OP. As someone switching from Tier 4, you were only required to meet the lower "new entrant" minimum salary, not the higher experienced worker minimum salary.

lolo2 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:47 pm

Worth to mention that my occupation was in the shortage list too.

This had no bearing on the application in your case, other than making the application fee a little lower.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:43 pm

Someone applying outside the UK can only be a "new entrant" if they are under 26 when they apply.

First of all thank you for taking a part in the discussion and replying!

Sorry, but what about point (ii) in the definition of the new entrant below?

The applicant is considered to be a “new entrant” due to one of the following:
(i) they are exempt from the Resident Labour Market Test due to the post-study work provisions in paragraph 78B above,
(ii) their Sponsor satisfied the Resident Labour Market Test under the provisions for “new graduate jobs or internships” in the first row of Table 11B above, or
(iii) they were under the age of 26 on the date the application was made
and, in all cases, the applicant is not applying for a grant of leave that would extend their total stay in Tier 2 and/or as a Work Permit Holder beyond 3 years and 1 month.

Me and my employer were thinking that (ii) might work for me. And since the job into shortage occupation, they are exempt to conduct and satisfied the Resident Labour Market Test under the provisions for “new graduate jobs or internships” . Therefore I can be considered as a new entrant.

In other words: the employer is automatically satisfied the RLMT, giving me a position in the shortage occupation list, that is, satisfied the RLMT simply by the fact, that we do not need to conduct it.

For me it seems logical but I am wondering if the rules can be understood in this way!?
What is your opinion?

This is not something for them to ask you to do for them, especially not via an online forum like this, and especially because you (quite understandably, because it's not your concern or responsibility) do not have an understanding the key concepts like the "new entrant" salary, the shortage occupation list, and the resident labour market test.

They will hire me only with a salary for new entrant, because the job is for new entrants (graduates) and I am just after university without experience. I asked them several times about hiring an advisor, but their point that they will compensate visa fee in case the HO refuse it.

The company also telling me that if the RCoS will be granted means that I have already quite high chances to be considered as a new entrant, since they were asked to provide all the information about the job, the contract, my personal details (age at least) during RCoS application in the SMS. Do you think it might work thinking like this? Is it true?

Thank you!
sah10406, I really hope for your reply!
Have a nice day!

Your employer needs to check it directly with the Home Office, in order to properly assign your Certificate of Sponsorship. I still think it is weird that they are outsourcing this query to you, the applicant.

Best refer them to the Home Office's dedicated helpline for sponsors:
https://www.gov.uk/uk-visa-sponsorship- ... ur-licence

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:41 pm

Your employer needs to check it directly with the Home Office, in order to properly assign your Certificate of Sponsorship. I still think it is weird that they are outsourcing this query to you, the applicant.

Best refer them to the Home Office's dedicated helpline for sponsors:
https://www.gov.uk/uk-visa-sponsorship- ... ur-licence

Thank you!

I was thinking, once RCoS is granted to a company, does it mean that HO is considered me as a new entrant and in this case visa application will be successful? Because when the company applied for a RCoS they have been asked to provide information about me, the job, contract, salary level. And according to the HO Guidance for Staff on RCoS Allocations published on this forum, when assigning RCoS HO looks on all of this things.

geos92 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:03 am

does it mean that HO is considered me as a new entrant and in this case visa application will be successful?

You keep repeating the same question, and I keep repeating the same answer. I notice you are now asking about this on Quora too, and people are also giving the same answer there.

Again, but probably not for the final time, your employer needs to speak to their contacts at the Home Office in order to decide whether they can sponsor you.

The employer being granted a cos does not mean or guarantee your visa will be successful. Many people have been refused at visa application stage.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:09 am

geos92 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:03 am

does it mean that HO is considered me as a new entrant and in this case visa application will be successful?

You keep repeating the same question, and I keep repeating the same answer. I notice you are now asking about this on Quora too, and people are also giving the same answer there.

Again, but probably not for the final time, your employer needs to speak to their contacts at the Home Office in order to decide whether they can sponsor you.

Yes, I was just trying to find people with the same story who has been granted visa or refused...
This HO helpline for sponsors is closed now due to the current situation. We just afraid about getting an advise from solicitor that he might not have experience in situation like this and give us a wrong advice.

geos92 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:29 am

This HO helpline for sponsors is closed now due to the current situation.

The current situation has also closed all visa application centres until further notice. No-one can apply for a visa for the forseeable future because of this international health emergency. Please try to exercise some perspective and patience.

geos92 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:29 am

We just afraid about getting an advise from solicitor that he might not have experience in situation like this and give us a wrong advice.

Your employer needs to contact the Sponsor Helpline when it reopens. Sorry but approaching random members of the public via Quora for visa advice because you think a solicitor will get it wrong makes no sense at all.