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Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system. This route is now closed to new applicants.

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Anontier20
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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:54 pm

You're not completely incorrect, if you read some of my posts you will see that company A wasn't doing well and I didn't want staff for the sake of it on it, but company B which I have not joined but have owned since 2017, but was never declared to HO in past applications ( as investment amount was additional) has been doing extremely well and justified the salaries, well until covid-19 hit, so that's where these queries were raised from to see how to utilise the situation I have to hand which is unique to my business and the points/ guidelines. This is all. Nevertheless as you have said you can use different papers from different companies, and as you're certain it's worked for you and many others this is the process I will follow.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by marcnath » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:13 pm

Anontier20 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:54 pm
You're not completely incorrect, if you read some of my posts you will see that company A wasn't doing well and I didn't want staff for the sake of it on it, but company B which I have not joined but have owned since 2017, but was never declared to HO in past applications ( as investment amount was additional) has been doing extremely well and justified the salaries, well until covid-19 hit, so that's where these queries were raised from to see how to utilise the situation I have to hand which is unique to my business and the points/ guidelines. This is all. Nevertheless as you have said you can use different papers from different companies, and as you're certain it's worked for you and many others this is the process I will follow.
Yes, you can use different companies.

However, you have to be a director of the company to be able to use the job creation. And if I recall, you were not a director of the 2nd company. Do you still have 12 months to go if you become a director now ?

The document requirement on Pg 29 says:

(f) If you were a director of a UK company or member of a UK partnership at the time the settled worker was employed by your business, a printout from Companies House of the company’s filing history page and of your personal appointments history, showing this.

That seems to be a clear indication that they will only use job creation at the time you were a Director.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:42 pm

Yes, but easy to become director, you just submit an AP01 and backdate it to whatever date one needs. So it'll be covered as well within my 12 months window as visa is 2nd May 2021.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by marcnath » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:50 pm

Anontier20 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:42 pm
Yes, but easy to become director, you just submit an AP01 and backdate it to whatever date one needs. So it'll be covered as well within my 12 months window as visa is 2nd May 2021.
I am not sure you can backdate it. You need to submit the CAR which will show the date of filing - HO specifically asks for that for that reason.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:06 am

CAR? Either way I'll just make sure the papertrail for both companies match the requirements for table F. Thanks!

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by marcnath » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:49 pm

If you are on a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa and your business has been disrupted
You no longer need to employ at least 2 people for 12 consecutive months each. The 12 month period you are required to employ someone for can be made up of multiple employees across different months.

Time when your employees were furloughed will not count towards the 12 month period.

If have not been able to employ staff for 12 months in total by the time your visa expires, you will be allowed to temporarily extend your stay to give you time to meet the requirement.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Anontier20
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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:39 am

Do you have any idea if they will be updating the the guidelines to reflect this for our use?

Anontier20
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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:39 am

What did you mean by CAR?

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by marcnath » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:28 am

Anontier20 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:39 am
Do you have any idea if they will be updating the the guidelines to reflect this for our use?
No, I don't. But this is on the gov.uk website, so this can be used
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:51 pm

Reposting here since your colleague get annoyed when I post on other's pages, even though many may have the same question.

Please can you explain How would this work? Are you able to illustrate with an example? Is it better to grin and bear it for 2 jobs and 30 plus hours then go in for in extension and the trauma and costs in entails? If you are able to pay the 2 jobs and the 30 plus hours, shall we just carry on?
I don't think I actually understand this, so is it similar to the transitional agreement, just one job/ one staff member to qualify for the points? Or they still want 2 jobs, just with an extension option if requirements not met? For eg, if my visa is expiring 2nd May 2021, with no employees so far, what should I do to ensure I can apply for settlement?

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by marcnath » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:51 pm

Anontier20 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:39 am
What did you mean by CAR?
CAR - current appointment report. You need to submit this with your application and it shows the filing history of all applications with the companies house. So, irrespective of what date you enter as the appointment as a Director, it will show exactly when it was filed with companies house and HO is likely to take that as your joining date.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by marcnath » Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:00 pm

Anontier20 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:51 pm
Reposting here since your colleague get annoyed when I post on other's pages, even though many may have the same question.

Please can you explain How would this work? Are you able to illustrate with an example? Is it better to grin and bear it for 2 jobs and 30 plus hours then go in for in extension and the trauma and costs in entails? If you are able to pay the 2 jobs and the 30 plus hours, shall we just carry on?
I don't think I actually understand this, so is it similar to the transitional agreement, just one job/ one staff member to qualify for the points? Or they still want 2 jobs, just with an extension option if requirements not met? For eg, if my visa is expiring 2nd May 2021, with no employees so far, what should I do to ensure I can apply for settlement?
The additional update I posted has a couple of things.
What is clear is that:
1. Furloughed employees cannot count towards the job creation.
2. If you are short of job creation because of this, you can get an extension to your current visa until you have time to make up for the shortfall.

That seems to be quite a fair approach. So, if your business can't afford to employ the people, you don't have to. You can do that when things recover and you can - you just need to get your visa extended. It does not appear that they have specified the process for that yet, but I suspect they will come up with something relatively simple.

What is unclear is their statement about not needing 12 months consecutive employment. It does not make sense since that was never a requirement in the first place. I suspect they meant you will no longer need a job to last 12 months but instead you can combine 2 jobs of 6 months each to make that up. But it is something that will need further clarification - which I expect will be done before these would need to be used.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:39 am

Thanks. This is why I was confused to as it seems contradictory, is it that we only have 1 job for 1 year or still got to have 2 jobs ? The 6 months here, and 6 months elsewhere has always been in place, I used that for my extension application so I know they do accept this. It's all a bit vague and agreed,it's fair(ish) but would make me less nervous if they updated the guidelines with the same info. It feels as we've been an after thought, so let's see what happens and if they have further updates.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:47 pm

What I can't seem to get my head around is:

Does this mean we don't now need 2 jobs?
One job but how many staff is multiple staff?
If you get have the one staff for the one job for 12 months, can you still go ahead and apply for IRL or do you need to extend, do the 12 months with the 2 jobs at 30 hours plus and then apply for ILR?

So vague don't you think?

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by marcnath » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:02 pm

Anontier20 wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:47 pm
What I can't seem to get my head around is:

Does this mean we don't now need 2 jobs?
One job but how many staff is multiple staff?
If you get have the one staff for the one job for 12 months, can you still go ahead and apply for IRL or do you need to extend, do the 12 months with the 2 jobs at 30 hours plus and then apply for ILR?

So vague don't you think?
There is NO relaxation of the requirement of 2 jobs of 12 months each. If you have not been able to meet that requirement, your visa can be extended until you meet it.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:43 pm

Hey,

So I am carrying on as normal as much as I can push with the two jobs and salaries/ NIC/ PAYE and Pensions. My concern though is, revenue has literally disappeared overnight and I am currently only paying for the salaries, I've even stopped all my marketing activity to make sure cash flow suffices. The staff are working on as much as they can whilst the shop is closed but it's more like an gardening leave I'd say. I have not furloughed them. I know you say that you don't know how HO will react but my worry is that they'll only see the outgoings from the bank statements, specifically the salaries and penalise for that?
Your thoughts on this?

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:50 pm

Oh, and also from your experience, the fact that my accounts will be showing a massive loss as opposed to profit therein no CT to be paid, have you seen cases where the IRL/ visas were approved on loss making businesses?

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by zimba » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:25 pm

Anontier20 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:50 pm
Oh, and also from your experience, the fact that my accounts will be showing a massive loss as opposed to profit therein no CT to be paid, have you seen cases where the IRL/ visas were approved on loss making businesses?
Your business does not need to be in profit as there is no such requirement. I suggest not to assume things
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:57 am

But they'd expect to see revenue coming in right? Otherwise, it's just outgoings? and a £50k investment becomes a £150k loss without revenues, let alone being able to achieve a net profit after EBIDTA.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by zimba » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:15 am

Anontier20 wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:57 am
But they'd expect to see revenue coming in right? Otherwise, it's just outgoings? and a £50k investment becomes a £150k loss without revenues, let alone being able to achieve a net profit after EBIDTA.
Is that your own assumption and opnion ?!!
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by Anontier20 » Fri May 15, 2020 3:47 pm

Hello,

Me again! To answer the question back in April, yes it is my own assumption and opinion, based on the fact that the company was loss making ( sales weren't enough to cover costs) and now all sales channels have dried up but business is still open and staff on payroll, therefore, more costs, no revenue. It's now about survival as opposed to profits, so on the back of that more questions for you fantastic panel.

To cover the salaries as I did not want to put staff on furlough, nor am I going to be wanting to extend the visa due to the covid exemption, aside of the original £50k investment, I am looking to loan the company an extra £40k from my personal funds to tide me through to the end of the visa in May 2021. Sales are far and in between, so won't be recuperating my investment in reality, not whilst the world is collapsing around us. Combination of Brexit and Covid has been the death knell for my brand, discretionary spending is extremely limited.

1) Is it allowed/ advised/ suggested to keep pumping in extra investment if the business is operating at a loss?
2) From you experience of a range of applications on this platform, how do you think HO will view this when looking at the accounts during the ILR stage which is next May 2021?
3) Should there be another director's loan document written up?

Many sleepless nights!
Thank you always.

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Re: Buying a new business in the extension stage of £50k Tier 1 Entrepreneur route

Post by marcnath » Fri May 15, 2020 4:00 pm

Anontier20 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:47 pm
Hello,

Me again! To answer the question back in April, yes it is my own assumption and opinion, based on the fact that the company was loss making ( sales weren't enough to cover costs) and now all sales channels have dried up but business is still open and staff on payroll, therefore, more costs, no revenue. It's now about survival as opposed to profits, so on the back of that more questions for you fantastic panel.

To cover the salaries as I did not want to put staff on furlough, nor am I going to be wanting to extend the visa due to the covid exemption, aside of the original £50k investment, I am looking to loan the company an extra £40k from my personal funds to tide me through to the end of the visa in May 2021. Sales are far and in between, so won't be recuperating my investment in reality, not whilst the world is collapsing around us. Combination of Brexit and Covid has been the death knell for my brand, discretionary spending is extremely limited.

1) Is it allowed/ advised/ suggested to keep pumping in extra investment if the business is operating at a loss?
2) From you experience of a range of applications on this platform, how do you think HO will view this when looking at the accounts during the ILR stage which is next May 2021?
3) Should there be another director's loan document written up?

Many sleepless nights!
Thank you always.
1) There are no restrictions under the immigration rules to invest more. It is your business, you have to make the decision - don't ask for business advice here as there is no one who knows your business.
2) Every case is unique but I have never seen additional investment having been the reason for refusal.
3) Again, purely up to you. You have already shown your investment at the time of extension - there are no requirements to provide any investment related documentation for ILR
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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