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EFM residence card refused

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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Mansi143
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EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:41 am

Hi guys, I hope you all are doing very well in this critical situation.
My EEA extended family application is refused and I would appreciate if you guys give me your kind feedback. Let me write a brief introduction about myself and my case.

In 2009 I applied Tier 4 which was refused, and it was refused again in 2012. In 2018, I applied again Tier, which was granted and I studied MRes Politics at University of Nottingham. In the mean time, I remained dependent on my Uncle who is a Belgium National. When I was in Pakistan, he used to send me money from Belgium. I lost many of slips but still had 29 (from 2012 to 2018). These slips are irregular, for instance, 2 of 2012, 1 of 2013, 4 of 2014, 7 of 2015 etc....but from January 2018 to September 2018, i have regular slips
In September 2018, applied my Tier 4, my application fee and health insurance fee was paid from my Uncle’s debit card. I applied for University accommodation and deposit was paid from my uncle’s debit card.
While studying in UK, my uncle sent me about £7000 from Belgium to my UK bank account. In July 2019 my uncle joined me and since then we are living together. In September my uncle paid my remaining £2000 pounds to my university. At the end of September 2019, I applied my EFM and my uncle applied his registration card.
Our applications were refused at the end of February 2020, and we both were granted rights of appeal.
My uncle’s refusal was because of his wrong company number printed on Employment Letter. It was typo Error. We applied again my uncle’s EU Pre-Settle Status which was granted.
My application was refused on following based.
1- money transfers were irregular and insufficient.
2- i did not mention my uncle while applying Tier 4 applications.
3- I submitted copies of slips as they wanna see original.
4- they refused my uncle’s application that’s why my application had to be refused.

Overall, my dependency was challenged by Home Office.

I need your feedback, how many chances i have in appeal against Home Office decision. Thanks

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by admin1 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:53 pm

Mansi143 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:41 am
Hi guys, I hope you all are doing very well in this critical situation.
My EEA extended family application is refused and I would appreciate if you guys give me your kind feedback. Let me write a brief introduction about myself and my case.

In 2009 I applied Tier 4 which was refused, and it was refused again in 2012. In 2018, I applied again Tier, which was granted and I studied MRes Politics at University of Nottingham. In the mean time, I remained dependent on my Uncle who is a Belgium National. When I was in Pakistan, he used to send me money from Belgium. I lost many of slips but still had 29 (from 2012 to 2018). These slips are irregular, for instance, 2 of 2012, 1 of 2013, 4 of 2014, 7 of 2015 etc....but from January 2018 to September 2018, i have regular slips
In September 2018, applied my Tier 4, my application fee and health insurance fee was paid from my Uncle’s debit card. I applied for University accommodation and deposit was paid from my uncle’s debit card.
While studying in UK, my uncle sent me about £7000 from Belgium to my UK bank account. In July 2019 my uncle joined me and since then we are living together. In September my uncle paid my remaining £2000 pounds to my university. At the end of September 2019, I applied my EFM and my uncle applied his registration card.
Our applications were refused at the end of February 2020, and we both were granted rights of appeal.
My uncle’s refusal was because of his wrong company number printed on Employment Letter. It was typo Error. We applied again my uncle’s EU Pre-Settle Status which was granted.
My application was refused on following based.
1- money transfers were irregular and insufficient.
2- i did not mention my uncle while applying Tier 4 applications.
3- I submitted copies of slips as they wanna see original.
4- they refused my uncle’s application that’s why my application had to be refused.

Overall, my dependency was challenged by Home Office.

I need your feedback, how many chances i have in appeal against Home Office decision. Thanks
Where i think many people are being granted visa under Eu Settlement Scheme. So i would suggest you apply under eu scheme. Cause Efm thats long n complicated.
Tell your uncle to apply for the eu scheme once he got his status granted then you apply under him n link his application to yours

Mansi143
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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:52 pm

Thanks for your reply.
My uncle got his visa.
But my question remains there, as i wanna know the strength of my case against Home Office refusal. Home Office alleged that I couldn’t mention my uncle in previous applications, but it was not necessary to mention any other person, was it? They further alleged that I couldn’t provide enough dependency evidence, though my submitted slips were irregular and infrequent but still they were 29 in number. Home Office also overlooked that my uncle paid my visa, health insurance fee, he also paid my room deposit etc.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:08 pm

Hello

EFM are always risky. They can never be as strong as FM applications.

How old are you if you don't mind?

I have seen a few EEA EFM working on dependency but it was mainly for young applicants. For some, the dependency was demonstrable when they less than 18.
3- I submitted copies of slips as they wanna see original.
If you send copies, they are not taken in consideration, so they don't even exist.

What's your status in the UK at the moment?

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:49 pm

Thanks Zerubbabel for your reply.

I’m 29 but whereas EU regulations are concerned, there’s nothing about age limit in it. As I have written in my first post that I submitted some evidence belonging to 2012.

Yeah, I can understand that I submitted copies, but they can be verified because all have transaction numbers. They are from Ria, Small World and MoneyGram. All are big companies and documents can be verified easily.

I got my refusal on 27 feb and without wasting any time I appealed against decision. My Tier 4 visa has been expired (from 25th march 2020).

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:05 am

I have described everything about my case and Home Office decision. You guys have good knowledge about these cases, I would like to request yo for your comments on my refusal and chances to win case in appeal. Thanks

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:16 am

Yeah, I can understand that I submitted copies, but they can be verified because all have transaction numbers. They are from Ria, Small World and MoneyGram. All are big companies and documents can be verified easily.
The Home Office caseworkers are not there to investigate in order to make your case stand. I have seen cases refused because they asked for an original passport and the applicant sent a copy. You can always argue that a passport (sometimes even British passport!) can be easily verified but this is not how it works. If they ask for an original and you send a copy, it's as if you didn't send anything. The point you wanted to make is not demonstrated and you give them an edge against you.

I agree about the age. There is nothing that says you need be that or that age in order to be dependent. But in demonstrating the dependency, it's always easier to build a stronger case for younger people / kids. For an adult, it can always be argued that yes you receive some money from an EEA national but you are not dependent.

I give you an example of my own brother. I am an EEA national and over the years, I helped him when he needed a surgery, when he wanted to upgrade his car, when he got married I sent him £3000 to help with the wedding... Still, he is not dependent on me. He has his job, makes good money and I am just helping him when he is in difficulty. If I want to prove that my brother is dependent on me, I need to show that I send enough money to be myself his main source of revenue.

I give you an example. If my brother lives in a country where the average salary is £8000/year and I show that I send £6000 or £7000 or £9000/year... that's fine. It's credible that he is dependent on me. But if I send £500/year, he is not dependent, I am merely helping to complete his revenue.

That's why with kids it's easier but they don't need as much money as an adult. If you are an adult and you receive money that represents 10% of the revenue in the country where you live, they will think you are working, you are economically independent and you are just getting a little help from the EEA national.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:56 am

Yeah i can understand your point. I have been receiving money since 2012. From 2015 to the date of application I received money every month but unfortunately i lost many of slips as record what i have frequent is from January 2018 to September 2018.
I have many others evidence, for instance, my visa application fee, health insurance fee, my hostel deposit....all paid from my uncle’s bank card. Further adding to it, when i came to UK, he was in Belgium and sent me three times money for my maintenance and expenditures with following transactions (£4875, £785, £1100).
In April 2019, I visited Pakistan to conduct some interviews, my university department gave me only air ticket, he sent me RS100000 to bear my expenses during field work.
He entered to UK in July 2019 and since then we are living together. Just before submitting my application, he paid my remaining tuition fee to my University account from his bank card.

If I get transaction record, still do you think my case is not strong enough?

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Obie » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:12 am

Provided you have indeed been receiving support and these support are necessary for your essential needs, having regards to your personal circumstances, then i believe you may succeed in your application.
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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:47 am

I do think your application has some merits. Especially that your uncle supported you for a while and also supported the expenses related to essential items such as university, housing... etc.

Still, it seems to me like the Home Office look at these EFM applications with a preconceived idea of refusal. I mean they don't look at the application trying to find the merits to accept it but they try to leverage any weakness to build a refusal. That's why you have a build a strong application and send all evidence you have. Anything you don't substantiate enough with indisputable documents, will be rejected and used against you.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:53 am

Ok, I value your feedback.
Do you think financial support from 2012 is for a while? If there’s no merits of my application what else option i have?
I have PhD admissions as well. If I leave UK after second EEA refusal and back to my country and apply tier 4 (PhD Visa). What chances I have to get Student Visa (in PhD program)?

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:18 pm

Zerubbabel, how Judge during appeal looks these types of applications? What he/she looks while making decision? What is the importance of the statement of my uncle during hearing?

Please also write is there any chance to apply for Tier 4 within UK?

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by CR001 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:29 pm

Mansi143 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:18 pm
Please also write is there any chance to apply for Tier 4 within UK?
You have to apply from home country if you have no valid visa. Unclear if or when your last tier 4 visa expired.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:38 pm

#CR001 thanks for your feedback.
My visa has expired from 24th march 2020. But i went i to appeal before it was expired.

Please also give your feedback on my EEA application.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:48 pm

Hard to put myself in the judge's head. He will look at your arguments and hear what the Home Office has to say and take it from there.

As we are going forward, I anticipated EEA applications to get weaker and weaker in terms of judicial review.

But still, I think you stand a chance.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:54 pm

I m really worried about my studies. I successfully completed my Master of Research from University of Nottingham with distinction. Because of my good understandings in my field, top ranked Universities of UK offered my admissions in PhD in Politics (September 2020). I’m worried how i will be able to start it. What would be my status in future?
If I lose my appeal, what other options would be there for me. No idea

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Obie » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:39 pm

In immigration you take things one step at a time, take everyday as it comes, and focus on your appeal.

At present one cannot really plan ahead, do to the pandemic.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:59 am

If I lose my appeal, what other options would be there for me. No idea
If you can find an employer willing to sponsor you, you may get a Tier 2 visa. It's not easy but if you have the right training/skills, that could be a viable option.

It depends a lot on the topic of your studies.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:56 pm

After appeal....if i go back and re-apply my tier 4 for PHD, will Home Office grant me Visa? Will they not create problems?

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:07 pm

Take it step-by-step and you will see. There is no point speculating too much at this point.

As for a Tier-4, they will always look at your past immigration history. They will be some repercussions but it's hard to quantify now.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by secret.simon » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:39 pm

Mansi143 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:38 pm
My visa has expired from 24th march 2020. But i went i to appeal before it was expired.
Having filed an appeal in an EEA application case is irrelevant from the view point of immigration law.

Section 3C leave, which extends the existing leave in case of an appeal, does not apply to applications made under the EEA Regulatons. So, currently and from the day your leave expired, you are an overstayer. Even if the judge allows your EFM application, the grant of EFM Residence Card is prospective and not retrospective. And that may have implications for future applications.

I think @Zerubbabel's earlier point about proving not only monetary transfers, but also that you were dependent on your uncle for meeting your basic needs, is fairly important. You may need to provide proof that you had no or insignificant other sources of funding.
Mansi143 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:54 pm
I successfully completed my Master of Research from University of Nottingham with distinction. Because of my good understandings in my field, top ranked Universities of UK offered my admissions in PhD in Politics (September 2020).
Congratulations on your academic success. Stepping aside from your query, what specific aspects of politics did you cover in your post-graduate course? And what aspects do you look at covering in your doctorate course? I ask because I am interested in this field as well.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:02 pm

but also that you were dependent on your uncle for meeting your basic needs, is fairly important.
That point is essential. Just to help you understand it, my brother gets about £10000/year money transfers from my uncle who is an EEA national.

The reasons for these payments is that my uncle is building a house in his home country. As he travels only once a year, my brother manages the building of the house. So every week or so, he drives there, pays the masons, pays the suppliers... etc. They are also having a side business together around computers and things like that.

Can my brother use money receipts to demonstrate a dependency to his uncle? Probably not.

Just money transfers taken in isolation don't tell a lot about your actual financial situation and dependency status.

What is stronger than Western Union receipts is documents from hospitals, schools, rental... showing you as beneficiary/client but the bill is addressed and paid by your sponsor. This is something much harder for the Home Office to question.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:03 am

Thanks for your reply. I’m surprised that why you guys are considering that i have 29 transfers from Belgium to Pakistan. In 2012 i start getting money from Rs5000 which is equal to £25.
In 2018, i was getting Rs40000 which is £200. It’s not like £10000 a year, not at all.
My uncle in his cover letter clearly indicated that we lost many transfers. Though Home Office could not satisfied (as they normally don’t, which is why 58% of their decisions were successfully challenged in the court), yet the evidence was sufficient (monthly transfers, ukvi fee, hostel deposit etc.)

EU regulations are quite vague over the terms of dependency and the period of dependency. There’s no particular definition. Couple of years ago, i have seen many cases where EFM were granted visas after providing merely 7-8 money transfers and even less.

You guys are exert and i was expecting a fair analysis from you. Do you guys think Home Office decision always matters in the court? If yes then why more than 50% decisions were overruled?

My Friends’ married daughter applied for EFM. Home Office refused her application but granted visa to her 6 month baby. Have you guys seen such a nonsense decision?

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Zerubbabel » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:02 pm

My uncle in his cover letter clearly indicated that we lost many transfers.
Anything you cannot demonstrate, doesn't exist. It's not possible to submit any administrative application, immigration or otherwise, by claiming that your major eligibility requirement cannot be demonstrated because you lost the documents.

I understand your frustration as an applicant. The EEA EFM route is in my experience the most inconsistent one. It's often a bumpy ride.

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Re: EFM residence card refused

Post by Mansi143 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:48 pm

My Tier 4 Visa was gonna expired on 24th of March 2019, is that automatically extended until 31st May 2020?

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