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CSI / Discretion

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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freddiekeller
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by freddiekeller » Sat May 23, 2020 12:24 pm

Dear All,

I would like to seek your advice on what I believe is a rare and complex matter. To begin with, I will provide some background. On 3rd April 2020, I submitted a naturalisation application unaware that I had been absent at the beginning of the qualifying period "BOQP" (03.04.2015, coming back to the UK on 08.04.2015). I have gathered all evidence and wrote a cover letter, which includes an apology for my mistake. I have not submitted this application, which were it not for this mistake and another (*) it would not have any noticeable flaws (I mention this because this is important when it comes to exercising discretion or not to allow the applicant to redeclare when the applicant has been absent at the BOQP). As COVID-19 remains a threat, centres are still closed. As a result, I cannot book my biometrics appointment nor do I have any impending deadline to send off the evidence. Right after submitting my application on 3rd April, I left the country for Switzerland. On 1st June, I will have accumulated 90 absences in my qualifying period. If I return by the 5th June, but then wait until the 30th of June, my absences count will have fallen below 90. I have three questions that I would like your help with:

(1) If I'm allowed to redeclare my naturalisation application to bypass the BOQP absence, will the redeclaration date be the date on which I am sent the letter/e-mail from the HO, or will it be the date on which I reply to this letter/e-mail from the HO?

(2) Can I just wait until the 30th to send my evidence and is this a worthwhile strategy?

(3*) My other flaw with my application is that: I possess two other passports, one which I never use (birth country "BC" passport) and one which I do (European passport "EP"). I underwent two name changes, the latest being reflected in my European but not in my birth country passport. While I did enter my birth country very recently showing my BC passport - the only use I have given this passport in recent times - this is unlikely to be something the HO has noticed. However, I said in my cover letter that the fact my current name has not been updated in my BC passport is due to the fact that I stopped using my BC for any official purpose since my most recent name change. Is this a valid reason, and if the answer is 'not so much', do you suppose that combined with the BOQP issue, this might result in my application being unsuccessful?

Thank you all for your consideration,

Freddie

secret.simon
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by secret.simon » Sat May 23, 2020 1:10 pm

If you were not in the UK at the beginning of the qualifying period (BOQP), the Home Office has no discretion and must decline your application (it is a legal requirement over which the law gives it no discretion). However, the case worker may write to you and ask you to redeclare it to another date within two months of the original BOQP, on which date you should still be meeting all the other naturalisation requirements. See Pages 14-15 of the Naturalisation as a British citizen caseworker guidance.

I am not sure if you can initiate a declaration from your end or you need to wait for a caseworker to write to you. Generally if the caseworker writes to you, I believe it to mean (but I may be wrong in my understanding) that there was no other fault with the application save this one requirement and that redeclaring in these circumstances will lead to a successful application. Here are some recent cases where the caseworker got in touch with the applicant for a redeclaration.

(My understanding is that) discretion is generally exercised if the applicant did not meet one requirement and that other requirements were met. If the applicant does not meet multiple requirements, discretion is less likely to be exercised and the application is likely to fail.

I think that the issue with having multiple passports in different names is going to become a much bigger issue when you apply for a British passport. For a British passport to be issued, you need to submit all existing non-cancelled (even including expired) passports and they all need to be in the same name. Not having them in the same name (and hopefully they should all have the same name as the naturalisation certificate) will causes a major delay in the issuance of a British passport. Search on these forums for people with multiple passports in different names or people who changed their names in the UK, but not on their foreign passports (such as by marriage) reporting the various obstacles and the major delays that they face.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

freddiekeller
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by freddiekeller » Sat May 23, 2020 2:20 pm

Thank you for your reply, Secret Simon, I appreciate the advice, which sheds useful insight into my circumstance with regard to the multiple names issue.

Regarding question (1), if anyone knows when the date of a potential re-declaration would be (the date on which I was e-mailed/the date on which I reply), I would appreciate your sharing this information.

Regarding question (3), if anyone knows whether the multiple passports issue might also be problematic for my naturalisation application, regardless of the explanation in my cover letter, please let me know.

secret.simon
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by secret.simon » Sat May 23, 2020 6:57 pm

freddiekeller wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:20 pm
Regarding question (1), if anyone knows when the date of a potential re-declaration would be (the date on which I was e-mailed/the date on which I reply), I would appreciate your sharing this information.
I think you can redeclare the application to any date within two months of the date of original application, provided that on that date you meet the physical presence and other absence requirements.
freddiekeller wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:20 pm
Regarding question (3), if anyone knows whether the multiple passports issue might also be problematic for my naturalisation application, regardless of the explanation in my cover letter, please let me know.
It may be problematic as in requiring further checks and therefore slowing down the process, but I don't think it will lead to a refusal.

After naturalisation, you may want to look at applying for a CoE-RoA in one of your non-British passports rather than applying for a British passport. It is about four times more expensive, but will likely save you the grief of having to change your names across multiple existing passports.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

hermanthegerman
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by hermanthegerman » Sun May 24, 2020 12:29 pm

Just to clarify regarding the date of your qualifying period:

Did you leave the UK on 3/4/2015 or were you already abroad? If you flew out on 3/4/15 then there is no problem as the home office does not regard the day of you leaving as being out of the country (as you were physically present for part of that day).

secret.simon
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by secret.simon » Sun May 24, 2020 1:09 pm

As the OP submitted his application on 3rd April 2020, his BOQP would be 4th April 2015 (as the start of the five year period ending on 3rd April 2020).
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

freddiekeller
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by freddiekeller » Sun May 24, 2020 4:23 pm

Thanks very much again, Secret Simon, I appreciate your advice.

It would be very helpful to me to know whether the date on which I might be allowed to declare will be a choice of mine within 2 months of submission, or it will be exactly 2 months after (since they will get back to me more than 2 months after the submission of my application). If anyone could shed light on this matter, I would appreciate it, as exactly 60 days after submission I will have accumulated just over 90 days of absences.

As an aside, Secret Simon, could I ask you whether it is certain that I will have to change my name in my birth country (BC) passport to match that of my European passport - even if I do not use my BC passport for any purpose - if I apply for a British passport after having naturalised? In case there is not a straightforward answer, I would be grateful if you could point me towards any relevant thread or online document.

freddiekeller
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by freddiekeller » Tue May 26, 2020 9:56 am

I will rewrite my questions below in a more straightforward manner:

Is anyone certain of when the date of redeclaration normally is? Is it any date that I choose within 2 months of the application date?

Does anyone know whether it will be possible not to change my birth country passport name, which I do not use for any purpose, so that it agrees with my European passport name, and still apply for a British passport after having naturalised and be successful?

Apologies for posting again. However, I do believe my questions will be easier to read now. Thank you.

freddiekeller
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by freddiekeller » Sat May 30, 2020 2:50 pm

Bumping this thread (not sure about rules on bumping, if this isn’t allowed kindly let me know)

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alterhase58
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by alterhase58 » Sat May 30, 2020 3:30 pm

I'll try:
Does anyone know whether it will be possible not to change my birth country passport name, which I do not use for any purpose, so that it agrees with my European passport name, and still apply for a British passport after having naturalised and be successful?
As you know HMPO require that all travel documents that have been issued to you (current or expired) show the same name and agree with your naturalisation certificate - they want to ensure you are not using multiple identities. From my reading of this forum I am aware there are some countries' consulates which will not change names in passports under any circumstances - in that case HMPO may accept a written statement from the consulate that changes are not allowed. Not sure whether this applies to you but maybe worth exploring. You will have to talk to HMPO on this point
Is anyone certain of when the date of redeclaration normally is? Is it any date that I choose within 2 months of the application date?
Just guessing on this one, as it's not a very common scenario. Presumably one would use the next available date, i.e. 8 April 2015 in your case. Travel days don't count.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

freddiekeller
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Re: Complex Query: Redeclaration

Post by freddiekeller » Sat May 30, 2020 5:36 pm

Thank you very much. That’s quite helpful. Given the new CSI development I’m facing a choice whether to ask for discretion on both CSI and redeclaration date on an application dated 03/04/2020, or whether to resubmit on 22nd June when I’ll be back in the UK and ask for discretion on CSI only in a new application.

My view is that as the CSI guidance is a change in the interpretation of the law and not the law itself it would not matter whether I resubmit on 22nd June as opposed to my current application date which is prior to 15th May when the new guidance was issued.

Do others agree that cancelling my application without losing the fee and resubmitting on 22nd June is a better choice?

Thanks

freddiekeller
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Posts: 40
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CSI / Discretion

Post by freddiekeller » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:55 pm

Hi all,

I am deciding whether to cancel and resubmit my application because I was not at the beginning of the qualifying period (BOQP) when I submitted (I came back to the UK on 08.04.2015 after a two-week holiday but submitted my form on 03.04.2020).

However, they changed the interpretation of guidelines regarding the CSI requirement since. Given I was a student without CSI until 2017, I will have to request discretion on two grounds for this application (being absent at BOQP & lack of CSI 2015-17).

On the one hand, it is tempting to submit this application because I have not been asked for CSI. On the other hand, I would not be asking for discretion on BOQP presence if I withdraw this application & reapply now but just on CSI.


What is your advice? I do not want to wait until 2022 when I will have had 5 years of CSI.

Does the online application form now ask for evidence of CSI? I believe the answer is YES from other threads I have been reading.

londuk1
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Re: CSI / Discretion

Post by londuk1 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:16 pm

freddiekeller wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:55 pm
Hi all,

I am deciding whether to cancel and resubmit my application because I was not at the beginning of the qualifying period (BOQP) when I submitted (I came back to the UK on 08.04.2015 after a two-week holiday but submitted my form on 03.04.2020).

However, they changed the interpretation of guidelines regarding the CSI requirement since. Given I was a student without CSI until 2017, I will have to request discretion on two grounds for this application (being absent at BOQP & lack of CSI 2015-17).

On the one hand, it is tempting to submit this application because I have not been asked for CSI. On the other hand, I would not be asking for discretion on BOQP presence if I withdraw this application & reapply now but just on CSI.


What is your advice? I do not want to wait until 2022 when I will have had 5 years of CSI.

Does the online application form now ask for evidence of CSI? I believe the answer is YES from other threads I have been reading.
Does the online application form now ask for evidence of CSI?[/b] I believe the answer is YES from other threads I have been reading. Yes it does I submitted my application yesterday and you will be required to upload proof if needed.

freddiekeller
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Re: CSI / Discretion

Post by freddiekeller » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:28 pm

Has anyone seen anyone mention their having applied AFTER 15/05/2020 (the day when I believed the change in interpretation about CSI was released) and been successful, despite not having CSI and needing it?


Would you say that needing to request a redeclaration AND having the CSI issue is a red flag for being rejected by the HO?

Frou01
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Re: CSI / Discretion

Post by Frou01 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:15 pm

freddiekeller wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:28 pm
Has anyone seen anyone mention their having applied AFTER 15/05/2020 (the day when I believed the change in interpretation about CSI was released) and been successful, despite not having CSI and needing it?


Would you say that needing to request a redeclaration AND having the CSI issue is a red flag for being rejected by the HO?
No, we won’t have seen anyone having CSI in their requirements since last month bring successful or unsuccessful because those applications aren’t proceed yet as they didn’t even have had biometrics yet.
We will know maybe in 2,3 months how not having CSI will affect applications.

Frou01
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Re: CSI / Discretion

Post by Frou01 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:31 pm

Regarding requesting discretion.

I think this has to be very well explained in a cover letter with sufficient evidence for a caseworker to justify discretion.
That’s why in my case a lawyer has written my cover letter to request discretion.

The wording about csi appears in online applications since beginning May, the caseworker guidance however was published on 14 May two weeks later.
The guidance refers to a question in the AN form to give an explanation why you didn’t have csi.
However until now no one has mentioned they seen this question appearing.
In another place someone posted a screenshot of an application form for people from Channel Islands and there it’s said to be updated since yesterday and you will be asked for CSI, if you say yes you will be required to provide a policy of your CSI insurance.

If you answer “no” then there is a box where you been asked to explain why you didn’t have had CSI.
Also it says “You can tell us about any additional factors that may help us to decide your application at section 7.10.”

Maybe you can google for that form and hopefully others who fill out the online form can let us know if they updated it as well.

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