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Stolen GNIB card

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5121472
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Stolen GNIB card

Post by 5121472 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:37 pm

I was just wondering if someone's GNIB card is lost of stolen, can they travel without it and with the report from Garda?
Also can they get their citizenship approval by submitting the Garda report instead of the GNIB card along with the draft and pics etc?

littlerr
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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by littlerr » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:53 pm

1. If you lost it in Ireland, you will need to apply to GNIB for a new one; if you lost it in a foreign country, you will need to obtain a visa from the embassy before you are allowed to travel to Ireland.
Airlines will not allow you to board the plane if you do not have either a visa or an IRP card. Even if you manage to get on the plane, the immigration officer might send you back without a valid permission document.
The only exception is that if you are availing of the EU Treaty Rights. The officer cannot blindly turn you away if your immediate family is exercising EU Treaty Rights. However, the airline can legally deny you from boarding.

2. No. You will still need to apply to GNIB. Your stolen card legally becomes invalid when you report the loss to the police, so you must re-register with GNIB. You can ask them not to issue you a new card if you already have an approval letter (and the GNIB officer may waive the 300 euro charge if they are in a good mood).

5121472
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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by 5121472 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:49 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:53 pm
1. If you lost it in Ireland, you will need to apply to GNIB for a new one; if you lost it in a foreign country, you will need to obtain a visa from the embassy before you are allowed to travel to Ireland.
Airlines will not allow you to board the plane if you do not have either a visa or an IRP card. Even if you manage to get on the plane, the immigration officer might send you back without a valid permission document.
The only exception is that if you are availing of the EU Treaty Rights. The officer cannot blindly turn you away if your immediate family is exercising EU Treaty Rights. However, the airline can legally deny you from boarding.

2. No. You will still need to apply to GNIB. Your stolen card legally becomes invalid when you report the loss to the police, so you must re-register with GNIB. You can ask them not to issue you a new card if you already have an approval letter (and the GNIB officer may waive the 300 euro charge if they are in a good mood).
okay and do you think the stamp in the passport wouldn't suffice to show that you do have a valid visa for Ireland?

littlerr
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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by littlerr » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:21 pm

I know it’s bureaucratic craps, but no, airlines are asked to accept only certain documents. Stamps in the passport aren’t one of them. (It’s much easier to forge a stamp in your passport than a visa or an IRP card.)

You might be able to convince the citizenship office, but I wouldn’t try my luck on that. If they don’t accept your stamp, then you probably won’t have enough time to get an appointment with GNIB and you will probably miss the ceremony.

On the other hand, it is by law that you need to hold an IRP card at all times (again I know nobody does it), so you are by law obliged to get a replacement at the earliest opportunity.

5121472
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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by 5121472 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:42 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:21 pm
I know it’s bureaucratic craps, but no, airlines are asked to accept only certain documents. Stamps in the passport aren’t one of them. (It’s much easier to forge a stamp in your passport than a visa or an IRP card.)

You might be able to convince the citizenship office, but I wouldn’t try my luck on that. If they don’t accept your stamp, then you probably won’t have enough time to get an appointment with GNIB and you will probably miss the ceremony.

On the other hand, it is by law that you need to hold an IRP card at all times (again I know nobody does it), so you are by law obliged to get a replacement at the earliest opportunity.
Yeah, below is what I got from the GNIB Office when I contacted them. They are closed due to CV-19. Feels like I'm fully stuck in this situation.

Hello ,

All Immigration Offices are closed at present (see www.inis.gov.ie for updates). All persons whose permission expires between 20/05/20 and 20/07/20 have been granted a 2 month extension (you don’t need a Stamp or attend an Immigration Office to avail of this extension-all explained on the website I mentioned).

I have made a note on your Immigration records noting the theft of your card.

Regards,

Now let's see when they reopen.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by griffith » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:07 am

Gnib card is a registration certificate not a visa nor an ID card.
In case if the Gnib card is lost or stolen the passenger can travel with their visa stamp but they would need a police certificate.
Airlines do ask for a GNib card but stamp may suffice.
The only hassle is explaining the circumstances to the staff.

I am saying all this because once i travelled without a Gnib but i had a police certificate that my wallet is stolen.
Check-in staff were not easily convinced but immigration were but eventually i was able to travel.
Stay strong & never Give up!

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by 5121472 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:26 am

griffith wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:07 am
Gnib card is a registration certificate not a visa nor an ID card.
In case if the Gnib card is lost or stolen the passenger can travel with their visa stamp but they would need a police certificate.
Airlines do ask for a GNib card but stamp may suffice.
The only hassle is explaining the circumstances to the staff.

I am saying all this because once i travelled without a Gnib but i had a police certificate that my wallet is stolen.
Check-in staff were not easily convinced but immigration were but eventually i was able to travel.
Yeah, I think you are right. One of my close friends also had a similar incident as you have described. In his case, airline understood the issue, but immigration caused a little bit of problem. So it's either the airline or the immigration that might cause some issue. But eventually he was let travel.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by littlerr » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:25 pm

griffith wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:07 am
Gnib card is a registration certificate not a visa nor an ID card.
In case if the Gnib card is lost or stolen the passenger can travel with their visa stamp but they would need a police certificate.
That is not correct. You can travel if you have a visa sticker, not a stamp (and it's not a 'visa'). Per Irish government's policy (and similar EU-wide policies), you must have either a visa sticker or a registration card if you are a visa-required national.

You can of course say that you have done this in the past. That doesn't mean it is correct. I have done similar thing in the past - I was able to travel through the UK once without a visa. Took me quite a while to convince the airline first, then another long conversation with the immigration officer in Heathrow. Eventually I got in. Will I do it again? Absolutely no. The airline has every right to deny boarding and the immigration has every right to refuse entry.

Regarding airlines, they are now much more cautious than that a year ago, especially under the current COVID-19 situation. They are told to only allow people with an Irish passport, an EU passport, a valid IRP card and only certain entry visas. Airlines are specifically asked to check the documents before allowing people to check in, because our EU border is still considered closed at the moment.

There's a post on this forum just a month ago where a person was denied boarding even though she has a visa sticker (the airline staff incorrectly thought that visa is no longer valid under the current COVID-19 situation).

The check-in staff *may* use their own judgment to allow you to check-in and board the plane, but they have every right to deny boarding without the right document. I just wouldn't want to risk it, especially when all the embassies are closed down at the moment and the number of flights are scarce. If you are denied boarding, it is very likely that you wouldn't be able to come back for a long period of time.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by Vorona » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:49 pm

griffith wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:07 am
Gnib card is a registration certificate not a visa nor an ID card.
In case if the Gnib card is lost or stolen the passenger can travel with their visa stamp but they would need a police certificate.
Airlines do ask for a GNib card but stamp may suffice.
The only hassle is explaining the circumstances to the staff.

I am saying all this because once i travelled without a Gnib but i had a police certificate that my wallet is stolen.
Check-in staff were not easily convinced but immigration were but eventually i was able to travel.
Agree. I had identical situation last year only. Lost my GNIB card in Germany, and got a police report (if that's what you're referring to as police certificate). My airline was happy to accept it and so was Irish immigration officer who just said as long as you're on our system and have a valid passport and police certificate you're fine. Had a copy of the lost card as well, but nobody asked for it.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by littlerr » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:41 pm

I contacted the border management unit and here's the summary response:

- If your original IRP is expired (even if it's within the 2-month auto extension period), you must obtain a visa from outside the state.
- If your original IRP is not expired, you should still obtain a visa to make sure that the airline may allow you to board the flight.
- It should be noted that entry to the State is always at the discretion of the immigration officer at the port of entry.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by Vorona » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:28 pm

littlerr wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:41 pm
- If your original IRP is not expired, you should still obtain a visa to make sure that the airline may allow you to board the flight.
- It should be noted that entry to the State is always at the discretion of the immigration officer at the port of entry.
This part of the response doesn't make any sense. Embassies will not issue visas to residents with valid Irish residence permits. Re-entry visas have been discontinued and the only documents that are required for non-EU residents to enter the State are valid Passport and IRP card. Passport is the main identification and travel document, while the IRP card is the proof of the right to reside for whatever purpose the individual is residing in the State for.
Moreover all carriers have been made aware of this last year when re-entry visas were discontinued, therefore refusing boarding to someone with valid passport and IRP card and without a valid Irish visa is a very unlikely scenario.
The requirement to be in a possession of an entry visa is necessary only in the case where person is not a long-term resident and is required to have an entry visa.

Refusing entry to legal residents is rather rare, and can happen to anyone who is not an Irish citizen, even EU citizens can be refused entry if they are posing a risk to public safety/have criminal record in the State etc.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by Vorona » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:45 pm

But that's absolutely sensible if the person doesn't have the card as the topic starter.
I can only guess what type of visa they will have to apply for, as re-entry visas are not issued anymore. There must be some kind of emergency visa for such occasions when person is only required to prove they have been resident in Ireland.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by littlerr » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:25 am

Vorona wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:28 pm
Embassies will not issue visas to residents with valid Irish residence permits.
That's true, except that many people are in the situation where their IRP cards are expired, but are auto-extended for 2 or 4 months.
This means you can legally live in Ireland with your expired card, but because your card is still expired, if you are abroad, there is a big chance that airlines will (rightfully) not allow you to board the flight to fly into Ireland, needless to say if you don't have your card with you.

Most visa categories have been halted, except for a few cases. One of them is 'Persons legally resident in the State'. Such people can apply for a visa from their local embassy.

http://inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/COVID- ... ouncements

Anyway, the getaway from the response is:
- If your card has expired and is out of the 2 or 4 month auto-extension period, you MUST apply for a visa.
- If your card has expired but is still within the 2 or 4 month auto-extension period, you SHOULD ideally apply for a visa so that the airline will not deny you from boarding the flight.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by littlerr » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:03 pm

Following my question above, I raised a parliamentary question to the Minister of Justice and got an explicit answer that you should apply for a visa even if your IRP card is auto-extended.

This is now updated in the FAQ document on INIS website as well:

http://inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Immigration- ... 9-FAQ4.pdf
Q7: I left Ireland and was unable to return before my Irish Residence Permit expired – what should I do?
A. If you are a visa-required person and have an Irish Residence Permit (formerly GNIB card) which expired after 20th March 2020 and before you were able to return to Ireland, then you will have to make a new on-line visa application. However, you should contact your nearest Embassy or Visa Office to confirm what if any supporting documentation is required. To check if you need a visa, visit the following webpage:- http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/check-irish-visa
if you are a visa required national, in the absence of a valid Irish Residence Permit (IRP) card, you will need to obtain a new visa prior to your return.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by 5121472 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:00 am

Looks like in my case, I don't really need to apply for any visa as my card has not expired and the validity of it is actually until 2025 (10 Years Residency Visa).
I already have the visa, but I don't have the IRP.
The only problem might be from the side of the Airline, but the Garda Lady said that they can call the airline for me and tell them to allow me to board the plane.
So if the Airline is okay, there should be no issues.
Your thoughts again, folks?

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by littlerr » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:38 pm

Yeah in that case you should be fine with immigration. As long as you can convince the airline, you should be okay.

5121472
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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by 5121472 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:00 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:38 pm
Yeah in that case you should be fine with immigration. As long as you can convince the airline, you should be okay.
Cool. thanks for all your help.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by 5121472 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:08 pm

Just one more question guys,
Will be charged for a replacement card? I have stamp 4 EUFam.

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Re: Stolen GNIB card

Post by Granista » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:18 pm

5121472 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:00 am
Looks like in my case, I don't really need to apply for any visa as my card has not expired and the validity of it is actually until 2025 (10 Years Residency Visa).
10 years residency PERMISSION. Not a VISA.

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