Child registration with parent Citizen via Descent after their birth

Jlouw · Post by **Jlouw** » Thu May 21, 2020 10:25 am

Help please!
I am a British citizen via descent. I applied after the law changed in 2003 to allow me to apply for citizenship via descent as my mother is a British citizen and I was born in 1971 In South Africa. I have two children, who were born in 2002 and 2005 in South Africa. We have been living in the UK for over 3 years now - arrived Feb 2017. Would my children be eligible under section 3(5) as I did not have British citizenship via descent at the time of their birth. I only acquired it after as I did not have the right to apply for it before?
Thank you

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Thu May 21, 2020 10:56 am

When did you acquire British citizenship?

It will not be an entitlement under Section 3(5), but you can likely apply under Section 3(1), explaining in a cover letter that the application meets all requirements of Section 3(5) except for the British citizen by descent parent acquiring citizenship after the birth of the children.

You may want to hurry up, as the ability to register as British citizens under either Section 3(5) or Section 3(1) will be lost for the eldest child on their 18th birthday.

Also see from Page 18 onwards of the Registration as British citizen: children caseworker guidance.

Children born to a parent registered under section 4C, 4G, 4H, 4I of the British Nationality Act 1981

Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 allows those born abroad before 1 January 1983 to British mothers to be registered as a British citizen. Sections 4G, 4H and 4I are registration provisions for those born before 1 July 2006 who would have become British automatically if their parents had been married. Any child born outside of the UK after the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descentwill be a British citizen under section 2(1) .

You must normally register a child if:
•the child was born before the parent registered under one of the above sections
•the child would be a British citizen or have an entitlement to be registered under section 3(2) or 3(5)
•where necessary both parents consent to the registration or any objections by the non applying parent are ill founded
•there is no reason to refuse on character grounds

Jlouw · Post by **Jlouw** » Thu May 21, 2020 11:05 am

Hi
Thanks for your speedy reply. I acquired my citizenship in 2009. We have applied for the children's citizenship under 3(1) last year on the advice of a solicitor and it was rejected, but we had not been here 3 years yet at the time. There were no special circumstance which would swing it in our favour and we were stupid to believe a solicitor against our own better judgment and lost a lot of money. I would be scared to apply under 3(1) again. Is the law water tight on the parent having to have had citizenship via descent at the time of the child's birth ? Has there been other cases like mine which has been successful? I could argue I was not able to apply for British citizenship via descent until 2003 and my one daughter was born in 2002, so this is discriminatory towards her rights ?

Thanks
Janet

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Thu May 21, 2020 11:10 am

Jlouw wrote: ↑
Thu May 21, 2020 11:05 am
Is the law water tight on the parent having to have had citizenship via descent at the time of the child's birth ?

Yes, explicitly so.

Section 3 of the British Nationality Act 1981 wrote:(5)A person born outside the United Kingdom and the qualifying territories shall be entitled, on an application for his registration as a British citizen made while he is a minor, to be registered as such a citizen if the following requirements are satisfied, namely—

(a)that at the time of that person’s birth his father or mother was a British citizen by descent; and

(b)subject to subsection (6), that that person and his father and mother were in the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory at the beginning of the period of three years ending with the date of the application and that, in the case of each of them, the number of days on which the person in question was absent from the United Kingdom and the qualifying territories in that period does not exceed 270; and

(c)subject to subsection (6), that the consent of his father and mother to the registration has been signified in the prescribed manner.

Jlouw wrote: ↑
Thu May 21, 2020 11:05 am
I could argue I was not able to apply for British citizenship via descent until 2003 and my one daughter was born in 2002, so this is discriminatory towards her rights ?

And that argument would be considered in an application under Section 3(1), an application at discretion.

In which month is the eldest child's 18th birthday?

Jlouw · Post by **Jlouw** » Thu May 21, 2020 11:22 am

She was born 19 November 2002. My other daughter 4 January 2005.
Thanks

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Thu May 21, 2020 11:32 am

I would suggest applying for your eldest child as soon as possible, as mentioned above, under Section 3(1), with a cover letter mentioning both your argument about discrimination and the quote from the caseworker guidance that I quoted above.

If that is successful (which I would assume it would be), you can then apply for your younger child's registration.

Ironically, there may be an advantage to your not having been a British citizen at the time of their birth. Their registration under Section 3(1) and the fact that you were not a British citizen by descent at the time of their birth would make them, after registration, British citizens otherwise than by descent. Had you been a British citizen by descent at the time of their birth, after registration (under Section 3(1)) would have made them British citizens by descent themselves. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

Jlouw · Post by **Jlouw** » Thu May 21, 2020 11:39 am

One more question please? If we do not apply for citizenship for my children now. When we apply for IDLR for my husband in 2 years time, can we apply for citizenship (MN1) for my youngest daughter at the same time ? She would then be 17 and I would be a Citizen via descent, my husband applying for IDLR and we would be here for 5 years.
It would still be 3(1) then actually ?
Thank you, your answers have helped me a lot.

Janet

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Thu May 21, 2020 11:58 am

Jlouw wrote: ↑
Thu May 21, 2020 11:39 am
One more question please? If we do not apply for citizenship for my children now. When we apply for IDLR for my husband in 2 years time, can we apply for citizenship (MN1) for my youngest daughter at the same time ? She would then be 17 and I would be a Citizen via descent, my husband applying for IDLR and we would be here for 5 years.
It would still be 3(1) then actually ?

Yes, you can apply under Section 3(1) then as well, so long as it is before your younger child's 18th birthday.

Jlouw wrote: ↑
Thu May 21, 2020 11:39 am
Thank you, your answers have helped me a lot.

You are welcome

Jlouw · Post by **Jlouw** » Thu May 21, 2020 2:39 pm

Please let me know if you have been successful with an MN1 3(1) application for a foreign born child under the following circumstances:
- lived in the UK for 3 years
- parent is a British citizen via descent
- parent acquired citizenship via descent after the child was born
- parent have citizenship via descent through their British mother

Normally 3(5) would have seemed feasible, but as I (the parent) only applied for citizenship via descent after my children were born we do not qualify for 3(5)
We would like to try the 3(1) route but would feel more comfortable if we know of other cases where it was successful.
Thank you!

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Thu May 21, 2020 3:23 pm

Please keep all your questions on the same topic in the same thread.

Jlouw · Post by **Jlouw** » Thu May 21, 2020 3:27 pm

Please let me know if anyone on this forum have been successful with an MN1 3(1) application for a foreign born child under the following circumstances:
- lived in the UK for 3 years
- parent is a British citizen via descent
- parent acquired citizenship via descent after the child was born
- parent have citizenship via descent through their British mother

Normally 3(5) would have seemed feasible, but as I (the parent) only applied for citizenship via descent after my children were born we do not qualify for 3(5)
We would like to try the 3(1) route but would feel more comfortable if we know of other cases where it was successful.
Thank you!

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Thu May 21, 2020 3:29 pm

You don't need to do anything. The two threads have been merged. So, if anybody wishes to comment further, they will be able to see all the posts and comment accordingly.

Jlouw · Post by **Jlouw** » Thu May 21, 2020 3:31 pm

Thank you, I will keep this in mind in future.

RainyDayRun · Post by **RainyDayRun** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:22 am

Hello,

I hope this message finds you. I was successful in registering my children for citizenship under 3(1) when their father was NOT yet registered as a UK citizen at the time of birth. Their father registered under 4C after their birth.

Look on page 18-19 on the guidance of how to register a child. If you have not yet applied, be very explicit about this section, like quote the paragraph and page number. I ran into trouble as the person working on the application was not familiar with this route. Once I guided them to the actual page number it was all resolved quickly.

Children born to a parent registered under section 4C, 4G, 4H, 4I of the British Nationality Act 1981
Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 allows those born abroad before 1 January 1983 to British mothers to be registered as a British citizen.

Sections 4G, 4H and 4I are registration provisions for those born before 1 July 2006 who would have become British automatically if their parents had been married. Any child born outside of the UK after the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descent will be a British citizen under section 2(1) .

You must normally register a child if:
• the child was born before the parent registered under one of the above sections
• the child would be a British citizen or have an entitlement to be registered under section 3(2) or 3(5)
• where necessary both parents consent to the registration or any objections by the non applying parent are ill founded
• there is no reason to refuse on character grounds

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Child registration with parent Citizen via Descent after their birth

Child registration with parent Citizen via Descent after their birth

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Anyone successful in 3(1) registration with similar circumstances pls ?

Re: Child registration with parent Citizen via Descent after their birth

Re: Child registration with parent Citizen via Descent after their birth

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