NHS surcharge double tax for immigration.

Hopefully the new year (2021) will be the dawn of a new era where everyone will contribute towards this fragile NHS.

nevilleturel wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:00 am

IF the governemnt want to slow down immigration they would have have shut down visa catogeries,

You have put your finger on the problem (of the government using tactics such as the IHS and the "hostile environment" to reign in immigration).

There is at least some, possibly significant, public pressure to control immigration, which should carry some, albeit not a controlling, weight in a democratic society. And yet, the tools at the government's disposal are not as many as you think.

Let's have a look at the various immigration routes into the UK.

The rights of EEA citizens, their current family members and those of refugees and asylum seekers are regulated by international treaties and laws the UK is party to. In the case of the former, the rights were defined by the UK's membership of the EU. Now those rights are based on the Withdrawal Agreement. That not only regulates those rights, but also the costs that those exercising those rights would have to bear. That is why EEA citizens and their family members do not pay the IHS. It can also be argued that the non-negotiability of these rights is what led, in at least some part, to the result of the Brexit referendum.

Likewise for refugees and asylum seekers and their family members. Their rights are guaranteed by international laws and treaties that the UK is party to.

Because these categories cannot be controlled or limited by the government, the pressure of regulating immigration falls disproportionately on the two main categories of immigration that the government can control and regulate; the work categories (also called the Points Based System, but which is really a bad misnomer in my opinion) and family immigration.

Family immigration of non-EEA family members of British citizens has gradually gotten onerous, with the British citizen needing to earn at least £18,600 per annum to sponsor a non-EEA citizen spouse, the non-EEA citizen spouse having to learn a certain amount of English, etc. Immigration of Adult Dependent Relatives of British citizens has been rendered practically impossible, with requirements that are impossible to meet in most countries in the world.

As to the work categories, let's have a look at the Tiers of the Points Based System.
Tier 1 - This tier has practically shut down, with the focus moving from "highly skilled" to "high value", generally investors and/or entrepreneurs investing money into the UK.
Tier 2 - This tier requires the immigrant to work for specific companies only, which have to apply for a licence, proving that they need a certain number of migrant workers in specific fields.
Tier 3 - This tier was never used.
Tier 4 - This tier, for international students, no longer leads to the right to settle in the UK or British citizenship.
Tier 5 - This tier is primarily for temporary workers of less than two years and also does not lead to settlement in the UK or British citizenship.

So, as you can see, the government has exhausted the levers that it does have of reducing immigration. The low-hanging fruit have been plucked and processed into jam. That is when the government has moved to tactics such as the hostile environment and the IHS, etc.

There is a separate argument to be had whether reducing immigration should be a government objective. As mentioned above, there is some public demand for it and in a democratic society, that should carry some weight. But, if it is a government objective, it is only to be expected that the government is straining at all levers to achieve it.

If you are interested, have a look at the immigration stats for 2018.

nevilleturel wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:13 pm

Also on the 1st of Jan 2021 UK is going through a big transition and leaving the EU so future laws including immigration I believe are going to get an overhaul.

It will not be so soon. Between Brexit and Covid, I suspect that a deep think on non-EEA immigration will take a back seat.

Keep in mind that EEA migration will not cease on 31st December. Any EEA migrant who has resided in the UK before 31st December and their family members and children will have a right to move to the UK.

Changes in the laws like these typically have a long tail. On these forums, we occasionally advise people whose forefathers had acquired CUKC status a few decades ago and who may still have residual rights to come to the UK.

@secret.simon, think with recent changes that are to take effect, Tier 4 for international students, can lead to the right to settle in the UK or British citizenship through the PSW leave to be given.

AmazonianX wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:42 pm

@secret.simon, think with recent changes that are to take effect, Tier 4 for international students, can lead to the right to settle in the UK or British citizenship through the PSW leave to be given.

Would you know if that is through the 10 year Long Residence route or if the years of studying on a Tier 4 route would be counted towards a 5 year pathway?

AmazonianX wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:42 pm

@secret.simon, think with recent changes that are to take effect, Tier 4 for international students, can lead to the right to settle in the UK or British citizenship through the PSW leave to be given.

Tier 4 does not and will not lead to settlement based in 5 years residence. The new Psw is a completely different category visa and rules to tier 4.

Tier 4 can only be used for ilr based on 10 years long residence.

Edit : the new Psw visa is a two year visa and will also not directly lead to ILR.

British citizenship is separate to all immigration routes as ilr is mandatory before this can be applied for.

Thank you for the clarification, @CR001

CR001 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:57 pm

AmazonianX wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:42 pm

@secret.simon, think with recent changes that are to take effect, Tier 4 for international students, can lead to the right to settle in the UK or British citizenship through the PSW leave to be given.

Tier 4 does not and will not lead to settlement based in 5 years residence. The new Psw is a completely different category visa and rules to tier 4.

Tier 4 can only be used for ilr based on 10 years long residence.

Edit : the new Psw visa is a two year visa and will also not directly lead to ILR.

British citizenship is separate to all immigration routes as ilr is mandatory before this can be applied for.

As always, thank you CR001 for providing perspective.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:56 pm

AmazonianX wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:42 pm

@secret.simon, think with recent changes that are to take effect, Tier 4 for international students, can lead to the right to settle in the UK or British citizenship through the PSW leave to be given.

Would you know if that is through the 10 year Long Residence route or if the years of studying on a Tier 4 route would be counted towards a 5 year pathway?

Let me say the earlier write up of yours on this subject quite detailed and dispassionate. Well done.

No, not on a 5 year pathway. More on logging it and progressing to other route that will end in settlement and BC rather than the current situation of 'finish study, pack your bag and leave UK'.

AmazonianX wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:13 pm

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:56 pm

AmazonianX wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:42 pm

@secret.simon, think with recent changes that are to take effect, Tier 4 for international students, can lead to the right to settle in the UK or British citizenship through the PSW leave to be given.

Would you know if that is through the 10 year Long Residence route or if the years of studying on a Tier 4 route would be counted towards a 5 year pathway?

Let me say the earlier write up of yours on this subject quite detailed and dispassionate. Well done.

No, not on a 5 year pathway. More on logging it and progressing to other route that will end in settlement and BC rather than the current situation of 'finish study, pack your bag and leave UK'.

Tier 4 has always had an option to switch in country to tier 2 general visa with a sponsoring employer after the last Psw route was closed many years ago.

AmazonianX wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:13 pm

Let me say the earlier write up of yours on this subject quite detailed and dispassionate.

Deeply flattered to be called "dispassionate".

I try to set aside my own opinions (and at least the conscious biases) and take a balanced, holistic view of the situation before giving advice. It is not always appreciated though So thank you for the compliment.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:36 pm

AmazonianX wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:13 pm

Let me say the earlier write up of yours on this subject quite detailed and dispassionate.

Deeply flattered to be called "dispassionate".

I try to set aside my own opinions (and at least the conscious biases) and take a balanced, holistic view of the situation before giving advice. It is not always appreciated though takes a great mind to do this So thank you for the compliment.

You are welcome.

I think the only person & its family who is exempted from IHS are those on tier 2 visas:

Refunds for health and care workers
You’ll get a full refund if all the following are true:

you paid the IHS on or after 31 March 2020
you’re a qualified doctor, nurse or other health professional on a Tier 2 visa who would have benefitted from the Health and Care Visa
you’re sponsored by the NHS, an organisation providing medical services to the NHS or an organisation providing adult social care
If you meet all these conditions, your dependants are also entitled to the refund.

https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigrati ... on/refunds

I see thre is some interest in this topic.
But no one seems to address the main issue I see of double taxing immigrants.
If I come for 5 years which I am, subject to renewal after 2.5 years.
I am paying NHS tax equvaent to 10 yers of being in the UK.

Anyway most importantly! I went to link of paying the IHS and said i am exmpted from paying the IHS.
I am pretty sure i dont qualify for any exemptions to my knowledge, so not sure if this is a system glitch.
Does any one have any info or a similar insident they have come accross. I think i might start another post as this is a seperate issue.