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Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Only for queries regarding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Please use the EU Settlement Scheme forum for queries about settled status under Appendix EU

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vishali2010
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Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by vishali2010 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:11 pm

Dear admin and all experts,

Hope you are all well. Thank you all experts for helping us.

I am applying for ILR ( 10 Year route) this month. I have two queries and need your help please

1. In 2006, I visited UK for couple of times on visit visa. And in 2010 I came to UK on Tier 4 visa and living here since then, this month I am planning to apply for ILR (LR route). So in the application what date should I put for date of first entry in UK, the date I visited UK in 2006 and stayed for a month or date I came here on Tier - 4 visa and stayed continously for 10 years, Also do I have to produce the details of visit visa when travelled in 2006

2. This year I had 2 motor convictions both at same time, CD10 (Driving without due care and attention) and CU80 (Driver of motor vehicle not a position to have full view), received 3 points and fine from court. In the application, which option should I choose under Convictions and other penalties
- A criminal conviction.
- A penalty for driving offence, for example disqualification for speeding or no motor insurance.
- A caution, warning, reprimand or other penalty.

Would really appreciate, if an expert can help me with these queries. Thank You!

AmazonianX
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by AmazonianX » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:29 pm

vishali2010 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:11 pm
Dear admin and all experts,

Hope you are all well. Thank you all experts for helping us.

I am applying for ILR ( 10 Year route) this month. I have two queries and need your help please

1. In 2006, I visited UK for couple of times on visit visa. And in 2010 I came to UK on Tier 4 visa and living here since then, this month I am planning to apply for ILR (LR route). So in the application what date should I put for date of first entry in UK, the date I visited UK in 2006 and stayed for a month or date I came here on Tier - 4 visa and stayed continously for 10 years, Also do I have to produce the details of visit visa when travelled in 2006 Date for Tier - 4 Visa

2. This year I had 2 motor convictions both at same time, CD10 (Driving without due care and attention) and CU80 (Driver of motor vehicle not a position to have full view), received 3 points and fine from court. In the application, which option should I choose under Convictions and other penalties
- A criminal conviction.
- A penalty for driving offence, for example disqualification for speeding or no motor insurance.
- A caution, warning, reprimand or other penalty.

Would really appreciate, if an expert can help me with these queries. Thank You!

vishali2010
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Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:30 am

Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by vishali2010 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:37 pm

Thank you AmazonianX for your quick help.

Would really appreciate if any one can help with my second query please.

This year I had 2 motor convictions both at same time, CD10 (Driving without due care and attention) and CU80 (Driver of motor vehicle not a position to have full view), received 3 points and fine from court. In the application, which option should I choose under Convictions and other penalties
- A criminal conviction.
- A penalty for driving offence, for example disqualification for speeding or no motor insurance.
- A caution, warning, reprimand or other penalty.

Thank You

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CULLINAN
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by CULLINAN » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:01 pm

If you were fined from court, it will be equivalent to a criminal conviction.
Personal opinion only, not to be mistaken for legal advice. Please DO NOT PM me for immigration advice. Love for All, Hatred for None.

vishali2010
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Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:30 am

Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by vishali2010 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:53 pm

I was advised by experts in this forum that all court convictions are not recorded in criminal record, unless its drink driving or driving under drugs or serious offences... Unless the offence is criminal offence and recorded in the criminal record, it wont effect ILR. I ve read some posts in this forum where people got driving points from court and still succeeded in gettting ILR.

I checked my Basic CRB and ACRO reports and both came out clear. I dont think all convictions from court are recorded in criminal records and unless its not on criminal record it wont effect ILR application.

Would appreciate if any expert can please advice or suggest, If court gives driving points, will it automatically leads to criminal offence and effect ILR application.

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CULLINAN
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by CULLINAN » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:26 pm

vishali2010 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:53 pm
When did I say it will have any effect on your application?
If you got a fine from court, you have a criminal conviction. Recorded or not on your criminal record is a different thing.
You must declare it as a criminal conviction.
If it is not recorded on your criminal record, it will have no effect.
Personal opinion only, not to be mistaken for legal advice. Please DO NOT PM me for immigration advice. Love for All, Hatred for None.

vishali2010
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Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:30 am

Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by vishali2010 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:59 am

CULLINAN wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:26 pm
vishali2010 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:53 pm
When did I say it will have any effect on your application?
If you got a fine from court, you have a criminal conviction. Recorded or not on your criminal record is a different thing.
You must declare it as a criminal conviction.
If it is not recorded on your criminal record, it will have no effect.
Thank You Cullinan

I will declare the offences as Criminal Conviction. Just one last thing, as my Basic CRB and ACRO shows clear, that means those offences are not recorded on my criminal record, just checking for peace of mind

Thank You!

AmazonianX
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by AmazonianX » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:26 am

vishali2010 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:59 am
CULLINAN wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:26 pm
vishali2010 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:53 pm
When did I say it will have any effect on your application?
If you got a fine from court, you have a criminal conviction. Recorded or not on your criminal record is a different thing.
You must declare it as a criminal conviction.
If it is not recorded on your criminal record, it will have no effect.
Thank You Cullinan

I will declare the offences as Criminal Conviction. Just one last thing, as my Basic CRB and ACRO shows clear, that means those offences are not recorded on my criminal record, just checking for peace of mind

Thank You!
For your peace of mind yes as he earlier answered

If it is not recorded on your criminal record, it will have no effect.

humanist100
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by humanist100 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am

I am not a solicitor but have researched on this in the past. This is not a criminal conviction but you need to declare it somewhere so that you are not hiding anything.
Declare it as civil penalty.

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CULLINAN
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:04 am

humanist100 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
I am not a solicitor but have researched on this in the past. This is not a criminal conviction but you need to declare it somewhere so that you are not hiding anything.
Declare it as civil penalty.
Can you provide me with a link where it says if you are fined by court for a criminal matter (road traffic offences), it leads to a civil penalty??

Only IF it was dealt by FPN alone, it would NOT be a criminal conviction.
Personal opinion only, not to be mistaken for legal advice. Please DO NOT PM me for immigration advice. Love for All, Hatred for None.

Kris001
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by Kris001 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:23 am

humanist100 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
I am not a solicitor but have researched on this in the past. This is not a criminal conviction but you need to declare it somewhere so that you are not hiding anything.
Declare it as civil penalty.
I agree with Cullinan on this.
CD10 and CU80 are criminal offences, NOT civil matters.
If you plead guilty in court, it becomes a criminal conviction and should be declared as such.
Whether or not the criminal conviction goes on to be part of your criminal record is based on the nature of the offence.

vishali2010
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by vishali2010 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:05 am

Kris001 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:23 am
humanist100 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
I am not a solicitor but have researched on this in the past. This is not a criminal conviction but you need to declare it somewhere so that you are not hiding anything.
Declare it as civil penalty.
I agree with Cullinan on this.
CD10 and CU80 are criminal offences, NOT civil matters.
If you plead guilty in court, it becomes a criminal conviction and should be declared as such.
Whether or not the criminal conviction goes on to be part of your criminal record is based on the nature of the offence.
HI KRIS001

CD10 - Driving without due care and attention (Forgot to turn on my headlights and caught by police)
CU80 - When police stopped me for above offence, they noticed I stick my phone to windscreen using it as SATNAV and the officer said the phone is obstructing my view and its in wrong position and its an offence

I asked the police if these are criminal offences and he said NO. After I received points from Court, I checked my CRB and ACRO reports and both are clear.

I saw in few Motor offences websites that driving without due care and attention is not a criminal offence unless it happens along with other serious offence.

But I am not expert, so seeking help here. I dont want to hide anything but want to know which option to choose under convictions

Thank You!

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CULLINAN
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:48 am

Your statement is vague. Did you receive points/fine via Fixed Penalty Notice OR you challenged the FPN and went to court and eventually got the fine/points from court?

I checked your previous posts and Zimba advised you to accept the FPN.

FPN alone does not result in a criminal conviction. That is why Zimba advised you the same.

If you challenged the FPN, and got fined by court, then it is a criminal conviction.

Recorded or not on criminal record is a different thing.

If its not recorded on your criminal record it will not lead to a refusal.
Personal opinion only, not to be mistaken for legal advice. Please DO NOT PM me for immigration advice. Love for All, Hatred for None.

Kris001
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by Kris001 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:54 am

vishali2010 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:05 am
Kris001 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:23 am
humanist100 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
I am not a solicitor but have researched on this in the past. This is not a criminal conviction but you need to declare it somewhere so that you are not hiding anything.
Declare it as civil penalty.
I agree with Cullinan on this.
CD10 and CU80 are criminal offences, NOT civil matters.
If you plead guilty in court, it becomes a criminal conviction and should be declared as such.
Whether or not the criminal conviction goes on to be part of your criminal record is based on the nature of the offence.
HI KRIS001

CD10 - Driving without due care and attention (Forgot to turn on my headlights and caught by police)
CU80 - When police stopped me for above offence, they noticed I stick my phone to windscreen using it as SATNAV and the officer said the phone is obstructing my view and its in wrong position and its an offence

I asked the police if these are criminal offences and he said NO. After I received points from Court, I checked my CRB and ACRO reports and both are clear.

I saw in few Motor offences websites that driving without due care and attention is not a criminal offence unless it happens along with other serious offence.

But I am not expert, so seeking help here. I dont want to hide anything but want to know which option to choose under convictions

Thank You!
All motoring offences come under criminal law and are therefore criminal offences.

If your offence was dealt with by FPN you won't have a criminal conviction. (You can declare these under penalties).

If your offence was dealt with by courts, there is an admission of guilt and is therefore a criminal conviction.

Hope this helps.

vishali2010
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Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:30 am

Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by vishali2010 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:10 pm

CULLINAN wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:48 am
Your statement is vague. Did you receive points/fine via Fixed Penalty Notice OR you challenged the FPN and went to court and eventually got the fine/points from court?

I checked your previous posts and Zimba advised you to accept the FPN.

FPN alone does not result in a criminal conviction. That is why Zimba advised you the same.

If you challenged the FPN, and got fined by court, then it is a criminal conviction.

Recorded or not on criminal record is a different thing.

If its not recorded on your criminal record it will not lead to a refusal.
I dit not received FPN. Its Single justice procedure notice I received from court and I pleaded guilty, received 3 points and fine(£250) which i paid promptly

Zimba adviced that all motor offences from court are not recorded in the criminal records and adviced me to declare it in the application, which I will.

Now, my Basic CRB and ACRO reports shows clear, can I rely on these reports and go ahead with the application or is there any other way I can find if these offences are recorded in criminal record.

Thank You Cullinan

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CULLINAN
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Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:17 pm

So you received a SJPN. You pleaded guilty but chose not to go to court.

If you do not go to court, the magistrate will make a decision based on the information they have. You’ll get a letter with the magistrate’s decision.

So it will be classified as a criminal conviction since it was a courts summons. But, I think, this is not a recordable offence so you will be okay.
Personal opinion only, not to be mistaken for legal advice. Please DO NOT PM me for immigration advice. Love for All, Hatred for None.

vishali2010
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Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:30 am

Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by vishali2010 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:26 pm

CULLINAN wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:17 pm
So you received a SJPN. You pleaded guilty but chose not to go to court.

If you do not go to court, the magistrate will make a decision based on the information they have. You’ll get a letter with the magistrate’s decision.

So it will be classified as a criminal conviction since it was a courts summons. But, I think, this is not a recordable offence so you will be okay.
I received the letter from court and got 3 points and fine, which I paid promplty

Thank you very much Cullinan. I will go ahead with my application

vishali2010
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Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:30 am

Re: Frist entry date and Convictions query on application

Post by vishali2010 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:00 pm

Kris001 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:54 am
vishali2010 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:05 am
Kris001 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:23 am
humanist100 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
I am not a solicitor but have researched on this in the past. This is not a criminal conviction but you need to declare it somewhere so that you are not hiding anything.
Declare it as civil penalty.
I agree with Cullinan on this.
CD10 and CU80 are criminal offences, NOT civil matters.
If you plead guilty in court, it becomes a criminal conviction and should be declared as such.
Whether or not the criminal conviction goes on to be part of your criminal record is based on the nature of the offence.
HI KRIS001

CD10 - Driving without due care and attention (Forgot to turn on my headlights and caught by police)
CU80 - When police stopped me for above offence, they noticed I stick my phone to windscreen using it as SATNAV and the officer said the phone is obstructing my view and its in wrong position and its an offence

I asked the police if these are criminal offences and he said NO. After I received points from Court, I checked my CRB and ACRO reports and both are clear.

I saw in few Motor offences websites that driving without due care and attention is not a criminal offence unless it happens along with other serious offence.

But I am not expert, so seeking help here. I dont want to hide anything but want to know which option to choose under convictions

Thank You!
All motoring offences come under criminal law and are therefore criminal offences.

If your offence was dealt with by FPN you won't have a criminal conviction. (You can declare these under penalties).

If your offence was dealt with by courts, there is an admission of guilt and is therefore a criminal conviction.

Hope this helps.
Thanks you Kris. I checked my CRB and ACRO reports and they are clear, so I think the Criminal offences are not recorded in the criminal records so I think I can go ahead with the application.

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