Question about absences and cabin crew

Billw · Post by **Billw** » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:46 pm

Hello, I live in London and work as a cabin crew for an international airline, so I am out of the country once a week for a maximum of 3 days. I've had an ILR visa since 2009.

With Covid I'm obviously flying a lot less, but over the last 5 years I've definitely been out of the country for more than 450 days. Can I count just my holidays as time out of the country, and not include these work trips?

There's another complication, which is that I lost my passport about 11 months ago and had to replace it, so I don't have a record of all the trips I've made. (My work trips aren't listed in the passport anyway). Is there another way I can provide evidence, or can it be self-certified absence? I have the police crime reference number for the lost.

I'll be very grateful for your help!

Post by **AmazonianX** » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:27 pm

Billw wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:46 pm
Hello, I live in London and work as a cabin crew for an international airline, so I am out of the country once a week for a maximum of 3 days. I've had an ILR visa since 2009.

With Covid I'm obviously flying a lot less, but over the last 5 years I've definitely been out of the country for more than 450 days. Can I count just my holidays as time out of the country, and not include these work trips?

There's another complication, which is that I lost my passport about 11 months ago and had to replace it, so I don't have a record of all the trips I've made. (My work trips aren't listed in the passport anyway). Is there another way I can provide evidence, or can it be self-certified absence? I have the police crime reference number for the lost.

I'll be very grateful for your help!

The HO should have the record. Placing a request for your SAR could help you in getting 5he needed details. However, the reference to your job and earning a leaving necessitaes the bulk of the travels and would HO consider this differently compared to journeys embarked on for holidays? Believe the mods and gurus shall give pointer in right direction.

Post by **CR001** » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:34 pm

Page 11 and 12 on the guidance notes link below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-guidance

And page 15 and 16 in the link below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... y-guidance

Billw · Post by **Billw** » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:22 am

Thanks very much both of you for your advice. This is really helpful.

It looks like there is discretion for up to 900 days absence, and discretion is available for merchant seaman and suchlike - so this should cover cabin crew too, which is encouraging.

The tricky part is my lost passport, so I only have records for the last year or so. Is a request for a SAR likely to provide the info I need? The gov.uk page here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration
....says "Your travel history can be provided for the past 5 years if a passport or travel document is submitted for this period".

In other words I'm not sure what evidence I'll be able to provide in my application.

Post by **CULLINAN** » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:31 am

For the missed period, you will have to prove your residency with for example: employer letter, P60s, government department letters (HMRC etc).

Post by **CR001** » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:31 am

Can you clarify what application specifically you are asking about as you have posted your question in the ILR sub forum, but as you already hold ILR, you are obviously not applying for ILR again.

Billw · Post by **Billw** » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:06 pm

Aha, Apologies for posting this in the wrong place - I'm applying for British Citizenship.

vaza · Post by **vaza** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:33 pm

Travel days don't count. So, if by 3 days you mean leaving on Monday, coming back on Thursday, that's two days. If you didn't count them this way before, you may be in luck.

As for discretion, you will need to look at last year as well - 90 days at most. If you meet this, it will be easier to ask for the 5 year absences. And then the more years you've lived in the UK the stronger the case per case worker instructions. Anyway It looks like an easier case as you say.

obormot · Post by **obormot** » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:41 am

It seems HO is normally favorable if absences are "unavoidable consequences of your work".
Jobs like cabin crue should obviously fall in this category.
I know of many university people (where it is much less obvious case - though still, many of them travel often for the job), who got citizenship while exceeding both 450 and 90 days thresholds.
One usually attaches a supporting letter from job - stating that candidate had to travel (using phrasing from HO guidance of "unavoidable..."), and listing the trips (which in your case seems problematic - though would not your office/HR keep truck of your flights?)

It is also important to show "strong ties to UK" (is your family in UK? Is your home in UK? Do you own a house? Bank account? Investments?)

Post by **secret.simon** » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:13 am

Keep in mind that the physical presence requirement still applies (i.e. you will still be required to have been physically present in the UK at the start of the five year period immediately preceding the date of application) and not meeting this requirement can lead to either a refusal or to a delay while you are asked to redeclare the application to a date when you do meet the requirement.

This requirement is mandatory and can't be set aside at discretion.

Billw · Post by **Billw** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:38 pm

@vaza many thanks - without counting the travel days, an average month looks like being approx 7 days absence. So 7 days x 60 months = 420 days. Added to this will be holidays, which will be 25-30 days per year, totalling about 570-600 days. This is fairly well within the discretion limits the HO have set. I may need some discretion on the 90 days in the previous year as well, though - as the travel industry was shut down this year I flew home for 2 months, plus a couple of weeks in Jan/Feb too, which will take me over the 90 days.

@obormot thanks as well - I will be able to demonstrate the strong ties, and hopefully my employer will be able to provide a letter. I'm hearing of colleagues who say they've applied without submitting the full travel details (there'd be 150+ separate trips - surely the HO don't want to wade through all these!)

@secret.simon this is a good point - I'm 'on the ground' in the UK for only a short period between flights, so it may be a bit of a lottery as to whether I happened to be here exactly 5 years before they receive my application.

So grateful to all you guys for providing this advice!

Post by **AmazonianX** » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:56 am

Billw wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:38 pm
@vaza many thanks - without counting the travel days, an average month looks like being approx 7 days absence. So 7 days x 60 months = 420 days. Added to this will be holidays, which will be 25-30 days per year, totalling about 570-600 days. This is fairly well within the discretion limits the HO have set. I may need some discretion on the 90 days in the previous year as well, though - as the travel industry was shut down this year I flew home for 2 months, plus a couple of weeks in Jan/Feb too, which will take me over the 90 days.

@obormot thanks as well - I will be able to demonstrate the strong ties, and hopefully my employer will be able to provide a letter. I'm hearing of colleagues who say they've applied without submitting the full travel details (there'd be 150+ separate trips - surely the HO don't want to wade through all these!)
In your interest towards a successful application, do not on your own decide what they want to wade through or not, kindly provide all that is possible in support of your application.
@secret.simon this is a good point - I'm 'on the ground' in the UK for only a short period between flights, so it may be a bit of a lottery as to whether I happened to be here exactly 5 years before they receive my application. Check the dates well and select the one that actually means you are on ground 5 years before...i don't envy the 'cross checking' you are having to do.

So grateful to all you guys for providing this advice!

Ultimately, you look fine by that guidance and ref provided by CR001 based on occupation.

Billw · Post by **Billw** » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:37 am

Thanks all of you!
I'm very grateful for this advice. I think it may be best to wait until after November before I apply, which should bring me below 90 days for the previous 12 months.
It's reassuring to know that I generally have a strong case!

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