UKM Eligibility

Where was she resident at the time of her registration ? How long did she reside in UK, between which years ?

She was in Manchester when made her 4th british passport.
Without registration she couldn't be CUKC on passport even in 1970 that expired in 1980.
I and my brother were born in 1977 and 1972.

I understand your argument - ‘she had a CUKC passport issued in 1970 and this proves she was registered’. However that is not true. Your mother doesn’t require registration to have CUKC status . She gained CUKC status at birth, so each subsequent passport until 1970 does not offer any new information.

Simply put, she would be eligible to keep renewing her passport - a full citizen one or a British Overseas one. That is what is not clear - which one of the two is she ? If she was eligible for the requirements of full citizenship BEFORE you were born, then you can file UKM. Otherwise, you can’t.

It is fundamentally not clear whether your mother had right of abode at the time of your birth . Acquisition of a passport listing her as a CUKC doesn’t answer this, or imply anything in this regard. Her last passport was issued before INA 1971, and the wording in it does not explain much.

The CUKC status was broad and applied to those with and without right of abode as defined by INA 1971. Those who had CUKC and right of abode became full British Citizens on Jan 1 1983 . Those without became British Overseas Citizens.

You have to prove your mother had ROA at the time of your birth . Unfortunately you’ve only offered small incremental pieces of information and not any further detail so I cannot help further until you make the effort yourself to provide answers to previously asked questions.

Keep in mind that the one of the requirements for Form UKM is that the applicant, not the mother, would have had RoA in 1983 themselves. So, if the mother acquired RoA by five years residence in the UK before 1983, she would have become a full British citizen in 1983 and yet OP will not be able to apply on Form UKM. See this earlier thread which deals with precisely this situation, and where the Home Office refused registration on Form UKM.

So, unless there is documentary proof that the mother was registered in the UK before the birth of the OP, the OP does not have RoA and can't apply on Form UKM, unless the OP themselves resided in the UK for five years before 1983.

The argument based on Crown Service is completely irrelevant. What is now called British Citizenship had two components before 1983; CUKC and RoA. The Crown Service component would have impacted the former (CUKC). However, by her birth in a colony, the mother was already a CUKC. That is not in dispute.

However, Crown Service has no impact on acquiring RoA in 1971. The conditions are clearly listed in Section 2 of the Immigration Act 1971 (as enacted) and do not take account of Crown Service. RoA requires a direct link to the UK (not a colony or Crown Service) by either direct residence or ancestry or registration/naturalisation in the UK.

The quotes from the Wikipedia article on British citizenship are also irrelevant. It states the law for births after 1983. That would not apply to either the mother or the OP's sibling or the OP themselves, all of whom were born before 1983.

To the OP: You mentioned that you have consulted a solicitor. Perhaps you should be directing these questions at them and letting us know their opinion.

As I mentioned above, nationality law changed significantly on 1st January 1983. You would want to hire a solicitor who knows historical nationality law, the ones that applied at the time of your mother's birth (and registration) and your birth and your sibling's birth.

sorry @sunburn if i din;t answer in details as your expectation as this whole process is exhausting .

@ Secret simon.
I found wrong info in previous thread that you mentioned in your last comment"

a) you could have inherited CUKC status from your mother at the time of your birth if the law allowed for citizenship to descend through mothers.
AND
b) you (not your mother but you) had RoA before 1983.

british-citizenship/ukm-denied-after-ge ... 72623.html

The above condition is OR not AND now a days in UKM Guide page 5.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t-2019.pdf

secret.simon: thanks for those corrections . Indeed crown service isn’t relevant to UKM.

The Notes in Page 5 of the guidance document covers the 2nd condition in page 4, ie the question of mothers’ prior ineligibility to pass on citizenship to child.

The RoA requirement is and has always been a stand-alone requirement and all possible options are listed in the 3rd condition in page 4.

By which of the 5 listed conditions do you claim right of abode ?

I GUESS THE FIRST ONE.

you would have acquired a right of abode in the UK because:

o your mother was, at the time of your birth, a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man, or

o one of your mother’s parents **was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man at the time of her birth, or

o one of your father’s parents** was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man at the time of his birth, or
o you were resident in the United Kingdom for a continuous period of 5 years before 1983 and had become settled in the United Kingdom by the end of that 5 year period, or

o you are a woman who, before 1 January 1983, was or had been married to a man with the right of abode in the United Kingdom

First One.

I hope you’re able to find your mother’s registration certificate. Alternatively, you can use the Form NS approach that secret.simon suggested.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:52 am

@ Secret simon.
I found wrong info in previous thread that you mentioned in your last comment"

a) you could have inherited CUKC status from your mother at the time of your birth if the law allowed for citizenship to descend through mothers.
AND
b) you (not your mother but you) had RoA before 1983.

british-citizenship/ukm-denied-after-ge ... 72623.html

The above condition is OR not AND now a days in UKM Guide page 5.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t-2019.pdf

The condition is still an AND condition. You need to demonstrate that you meet both conditions, not either condition.

Indeed, the first line of Page 5, Guide UKM states "You will be entitled to registration if you meet all of these requirements".

If you claim RoA by the first condition, you will need your mother's registration certificate in the UK to apply on Form UKM.

Is it possible that your grandfather may not have registered her if plans for her marriage in India were well-advanced at the time that he was registered as a British citizen in 1969? Were her other siblings (your uncles and aunts) registered (you can search on the National Archives site for all of them) in 1969 or thereabouts?

On Page 7:
Please send the following documents:
• Your passport
• Your full birth certificate (one which includes the name of your parent(s), (which should be requested from the relevant authorities in your country of origin),
• Your mother’s full birth certificate, and either
• Her certificate of naturalisation or registration as a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or, before 1 January 1949, as a British subject), or
• Papers showing her legal adoption, or
• Her expired citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies passport.

see the point 4.she was born british subject in kenya protectorate and its condition or .its in case of absence of registration certificate.Is that right?

Response to this:

The condition is still an AND condition. You need to demonstrate that you meet both conditions, not either condition.

Indeed, the first line of Page 5, Guide UKM states "You will be entitled to registration if you meet all of these requirements".


I see sept 2019 updated guide as below:

Do you see OR word in subconditions of condition 3."ALL" conditions means 3 main conditions with black bullet points.

You will be entitled to registration if you meet all of these requirements:
• you were born before 1 January 1983
• you would have become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if, before 1 January 1983, women had been able to pass on citizenship to their children in the same way as men at the time of your birth
• you would have acquired a right of abode in the UK because:
o your mother was, at the time of your birth, a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man, or
o one of your mother’s parents **was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man at the time of her birth, or
o one of your father’s parents** was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man at the time of his birth, or
o you were resident in the United Kingdom for a continuous period of 5 years before 1983 and had become settled in the United Kingdom by the end of that 5 year period, or
o you are a woman who, before 1 January 1983, was or had been married to a man with the right of abode in the United Kingdom

Proof of Right of Abode has always been a non-negotiable requirement for UKM. This is because British Citizens have right of abode. UKM only accords British Citizenship. It does not accord British nationality without right of abode (i.e. British Overseas Citizen status). Thus any UKM applicant has to prove all of the following three things:
* Birth prior to Jan 1 1983
* That their mother was eligible to pass citizenship to them the same way a father would have been. Described in Notes on page 5
* That they had right of abode at birth through one of 5 listed paths on Page 4

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:48 pm

see the point 4.she was born british subject in kenya protectorate and its condition or .its in case of absence of registration certificate.Is that right?

Between 1971 and 1983, CUKC passports would have been stamped with an entry stating that the holder was a patrial (i.e. they had RoA). Alternatively, CUKC passports would be stamped with an entry stating that the holder was "subject to control under the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962" or similar words. Does your mother's passport have a stamp similar to this one, but referencing the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962-68?

Re acquiring RoA, you are correct that it is an OR condition. It does not matter how you acquire RoA provided you can prove that you have it (and the attendant proof of course). Again, keep in mind that it is your acquisition of RoA before 1983 that matters for Form UKM, not your mother's.

@secret.simon ,so in absence of mom's registration,i had to talk to National Archives and they told me if they couldn't find it in record then I have to call HMPO.I did and explained them whole situation ,they forwarded my call to nationality team where they confirmed my mom is british citizen other than by descent.

Now, as it was all on phone call, it's not written anywhere.I have to renew mom's passport first.If it comes as a british citizen ,should i Call them again for UKM clarity?

@secret.simon:
My mom's passport doesn't have immigration control stamp,though its made in 1970.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:33 pm

I have to renew mom's passport first.If it comes as a british citizen ,should i Call them again for UKM clarity?

Why not? Doesn't cost much.

However, keep in mind that the Home Office does not consider itself bound by advice that it gives either over the phone or in writing. So the outcome after application may be different to what you get over the phone.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:38 pm

My mom's passport doesn't have immigration control stamp,though its made in 1970.

Then she and you have a chance. Give it a go.

Has your mother ever entered the UK between 1971 and 1980, using the passport that was issued in 1970 ? Or at any time subsequently ?

Renewing your mother's British passport can jeopardize her residency in India, assuming that's where she lives now. Indian immigration law permits latent claims to other nationality, but application for a foreign passport is an act that causes automatic loss of Indian nationality, and she would become an overstaying foreigner at that point.

@ Secret.simon :Yes ,makes sense.

@sunburn:That's the whole issue about figuring out the nationality as she couldn't travel back since 1970.

sunburn wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:43 pm

Renewing your mother's British passport can jeopardize her residency in India, assuming that's where she lives now. Indian immigration law permits latent claims to other nationality, but application for a foreign passport is an act that causes automatic loss of Indian nationality, and she would become an overstaying foreigner at that point.

Which is why I suggest a Form NS letter rather than a British passport application.

I can empathize. It's the same for my mother. She's never gone back to UK since she moved to India in the late 1960s , as she cannot get a visa to enter UK on an Indian passport, and cannot apply for a British passport without the BOI flagging her status and causing fines to accrue. There are ways to do the British Passport + OCI switch, but they all involve fines, temporary visas and procedure, and are not trivial.

In my experience, UK nationality law places the burden of proof on the applicant. I have gotten bogus information from 'official' sources, and really the only thing that counts is that the applicant have all necessary documentation to prove their claim.

The central piece of evidence here is your mother's registration certificate it appears. Given that you mentioned you were born in 1977, did you reside in UK for any duration of time between 1977 and Jan 1 1983 ?

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:52 pm

sunburn wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:43 pm

Renewing your mother's British passport can jeopardize her residency in India, assuming that's where she lives now. Indian immigration law permits latent claims to other nationality, but application for a foreign passport is an act that causes automatic loss of Indian nationality, and she would become an overstaying foreigner at that point.

Which is why I suggest a Form NS letter rather than a British passport application.

Yes I'm in complete agreement with this approach.

@SunburnMy mom never had indian passport ,infact they can't make it as they are not born in India.I am wondering how did your mom make it.

secondly,Indian law allows after marriage plus 12 years of stay in country to get citizenship but my mom din't renounce british citizenship.

Have you heard about Aadhar Card ,Ration Card .She has those docs on basis of her marriage to an indian citizen.

Aadhaar is the world's largest biometric ID system. ... Considered a proof of residence and not a proof of citizenship from wiki

I think this thread has run its course and covered all the ground that it can.

I suggest that the OP now apply for a Form NS letter, with his mother's old passport and all the arguments that he has made here (his grandfather's registration certificate from 1969, his Crown Service, the fact that the mother's 1970 passport was not stamped as being subject to the Commonwealth Immigrants Acts, that all her siblings have British passports, etc).

The Home Office response to that request will then inform us of what the Home Office view is on the matter and we can then discuss the Home Office response and take it forward from there.