Irp but working in europe

Deutscheg · Post by **Deutscheg** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:43 pm

Hi

Hoping someone can help me. My husband and I have been living in Germany for the past 7-8 years . He is on an Eu blue card there. We have a baby and got married last month.

I am an Irish citizen and he is Australian. We would like to come to live in Ireland to be closer to my family but he has a very good and high paying job in Germany so we would like that he continues to work remotely there until he finds a job here of equal or near same pay. Also as I am still on maternity leave he is the sole earner in the family

He is currently in Ireland with us on the 90 day entry but has informed airport staff of his wish to reside longer and has been entered in the system. If we do go ahead and apply for the irp is there going to be any issues that he is still employed and wishing to remain employed in Germany? Obviously tax will be an issue at some point. Or is he allowed to re enter Ireland as a tourist again after the 90 days? He would need to travel to Germany at least every two weeks still for the job and maintain a residence there

Any info or is our circumstance/wish just impossible ?

Thanks!

littlerr · Post by **littlerr** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:11 pm

Unfortunately, Ireland is one of the two countries that do not accept EU Blue Card.

Your husband can live in Ireland without any issues. The standard route would be to apply for a Stamp 4 based on marriage with an Irish citizen. You *might* be able to apply for a Stamp 4EUFAM under EU Treaty Rights, which is much quicker to process and gives provides more freedom to travel within EU, as you are an EU national living in a different EU country for 8 years, although it would be up to the officer to determine whether your EU Treaty Rights can be extended to your husband since he was in Germany on his own rights.

Whether your husband has a Stamp 4 or Stamp 4EUFAM, it gives him total freedom to do whatever he wants in Ireland (of course, that's subject to you, as a sponsor, satisfying all financial requirements).

The problem is on the German side. Whether or not the German authority counterpart will still allow a non-EU national to work there without physically living there, I don't know. I doubt if most people here will know, as this forum is for Irish immigrations. Most countries, in the current situation, will allow non-EU immigrants to work remotely from a different country. However, that is provided that they still intend to go back to the country once the pandemic is over.

You may try your luck in a German immigration forum.

Dub23 · Post by **Dub23** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:12 pm

Hi,

As the spouse of an Irish citizen one has to apply for a stamp 4 (IRP) which allows you to live and work in Ireland freely.

Getting this is quite straightforward under normal circumstances. Depending where you are planning to live in Ireland you either make an appointment with the Immigration Services (INIS) in Dublin or if you live outside of Dublin you go to your nearest Garda Station.

With COVID at the moment the Immigration Services in Dublin are closed and they are only doing renewal applications via post. So when you arrive in Ireland it will probably take months before you can secure his Stamp 4 (IRP).

Regarding working and tax, as he is working for a German company I believe he will be allowed to continue working remotely. Regarding tax, he will have to complete his tax return every year in Ireland and Germany, but because he will be paying tax at source in Germany he probably won't be required to pay additional tax in Ireland.

Read more here: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000024

BTW, why does your husband not apply for German Citizenship? His been there 8 years which would make him eligible. He will obviously have t pass the German language test.

Dub23 · Post by **Dub23** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:15 pm

littlerr wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:11 pm
Unfortunately, Ireland is one of the two countries that do not accept EU Blue Card.

Your husband can live in Ireland without any issues. The standard route would be to apply for a Stamp 4 based on marriage with an Irish citizen. You *might* be able to apply for a Stamp 4EUFAM under EU Treaty Rights, which is much quicker to process and gives provides more freedom to travel within EU, as you are an EU national living in a different EU country for 8 years, although it would be up to the officer to determine whether your EU Treaty Rights can be extended to your husband since he was in Germany on his own rights.

Whether your husband has a Stamp 4 or Stamp 4EUFAM, it gives him total freedom to do whatever he wants in Ireland (of course, that's subject to you, as a sponsor, satisfying all financial requirements).

The problem is on the German side. Whether or not the German authority counterpart will still allow a non-EU national to work there without physically living there, I don't know. I doubt if most people here will know, as this forum is for Irish immigrations. Most countries, in the current situation, will allow non-EU immigrants to work remotely from a different country. However, that is provided that they still intend to go back to the country once the pandemic is over.

You may try your luck in a German immigration forum.

A Stamp 4EUFAM is definitely not quicker to process. People are waiting up to 18 months for their applications to be approved. It is a lengthy and tricky application with loads of supporting documents. Also there is a minimum financial requirement for the 4EUFAM stamp.

I am the spouse of an Irish citizen and I got my Stamp 4 on the same day. There is no actual application to complete. You just need your supporting documents when attend your appointment. There is no financial requirement for this Stamp 4.

littlerr · Post by **littlerr** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:25 pm

An application based on EU Treaty rights is much quicker to process than an application to SOIN. Yes in most cases an application to SOIN is not necessary, but applicants are increasingly difficult to obtain in GNIB directly without an SOIN application now.

Of course, there is no harm trying to get an appointment with GNIB and see if the Stamp 4 can be issued right away.

Germany does not allow dual citizenship based on naturalisation. I guess that’s the main reason

Dub23 · Post by **Dub23** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:36 pm

Just curious, on what basis are you claiming that EU treaty rights are quicker to process?

This my experience with a group friends in Ireland using the EU Treaty route:

- They had to complete a lengthy application form
- Needed loads of supporting documents
- The person with the EU passport has to be employed
- It took them 3 to 4 months to get a letter from the INIS that gave them a 6 temporary Stamp 4 to allow them to remain in the country whilst their application is processed
- Took 12 to 18 months to get their final approval

This my experience with a normal Stamp 4 as the SOIN:

- Made an appointment, this was May 2019
- No application form
- Only needed, my passport, their passport and our marriage certificate
- Got a 3 year stamp 4 on the same day in my passport, it took 2 weeks for my IRP to arrive in the post

Yes, the Dual Citizenship is probably an issue.

Dub23 · Post by **Dub23** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:41 pm

littlerr wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:25 pm
An application based on EU Treaty rights is much quicker to process than an application to SOIN. Yes in most cases an application to SOIN is not necessary, but applicants are increasingly difficult to obtain in GNIB directly without an SOIN application now.

Of course, there is no harm trying to get an appointment with GNIB and see if the Stamp 4 can be issued right away.

Germany does not allow dual citizenship based on naturalisation. I guess that’s the main reason

Just curious, on what basis are you claiming that EU treaty rights are quicker to process?

This my experience with a group friends in Ireland using the EU Treaty route:

- They had to complete a lengthy application form
- Needed loads of supporting documents
- The person with the EU passport has to be employed
- It took them 3 to 4 months to get a letter from the INIS that gave them a 6 temporary Stamp 4 to allow them to remain in the country whilst their application is processed
- Took 12 to 18 months to get their final approval

This my experience with a normal Stamp 4 as the SOIN:

- Made an appointment, this was May 2019
- No application form
- Only needed, my passport, their passport and our marriage certificate
- Got a 3 year stamp 4 on the same day in my passport, it took 2 weeks for my IRP to arrive in the post

Yes, the Dual Citizenship is probably an issue.

littlerr · Post by **littlerr** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:00 pm

You did NOT make an application to SOIN. You simply visited the GNIB to get a stamp. This is NO LONGER the experience for more and more new applicants. They are being turned away and are asked to make an application to SOIN.

A typical SOIN application takes more than 12 months, while a typical EU Treaty application takes 6 months. The '12 to 18 months' you mentioned is certainly not for the majority of the people. The Department of Justice has a legal obligation to finish most EUTR applications within 6 months.

Dub23 · Post by **Dub23** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:58 am

littlerr wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:00 pm
You did NOT make an application to SOIN. You simply visited the GNIB to get a stamp. This is NO LONGER the experience for more and more new applicants. They are being turned away and are asked to make an application to SOIN.

A typical SOIN application takes more than 12 months, while a typical EU Treaty application takes 6 months. The '12 to 18 months' you mentioned is certainly not for the majority of the people. The Department of Justice has a legal obligation to finish most EUTR applications within 6 months.

Okay, that could be difference. I didn't realise that people are expected to make a formal application now. The INIS should then update their website as the process is then not correctly documented.

littlerr · Post by **littlerr** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:53 am

It’s still a small percentage of people who are asked to make a formal application, but that percentage is getting increasingly larger in the past two years.
Also more and more people are getting their stamp 4 valid for only 1 year instead of 3 years. We honestly don’t know where this worrying trend is coming from and there has been no definitive official reply on these matters.

Anyway, for the OP, it doesn’t hurt to get an appointment and try to get the Stamp 4 directly. There’s no need to do anything else unless they are turned away.

TropicalTornado · Post by **TropicalTornado** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:56 pm

I'm confused. The spouse of an Irish citizen will get stamp 4 and then they need to apply separately for a stamp 4EUFAM which might takes months?

I thought the spouse of an Irish citizen automatically gets stamp 4EUFAM. After reading this topic, I'm confused. I'm on Stamp 4 and I was thinking that once I'm an Irish citizen, my wife stamp will change to stamp 4EUFAM.

littlerr · Post by **littlerr** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:10 pm

TropicalTornado wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:56 pm
I'm confused. The spouse of an Irish citizen will get stamp 4 and then they need to apply separately for a stamp 4EUFAM which might takes months?

I thought the spouse of an Irish citizen automatically gets stamp 4EUFAM. After reading this topic, I'm confused. I'm on Stamp 4 and I was thinking that once I'm an Irish citizen, my wife stamp will change to stamp 4EUFAM.

No. This is completely irrelevant and incorrect. Spouses of an Irish citizen CANNOT get Stamp 4EUFAM.

The only exception to this is where an Irish citizen lives abroad in a different EU country, and then moves back with their spouse.

TropicalTornado · Post by **TropicalTornado** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:31 pm

I really can't digest it @littlerr. Why Ireland? Why are you doing this to us?
I did a bit of research on this forum. Realized that it's called reverse discrimination. I'm really pissed off.

Although privilege-wise (working and living in Ireland), I don't think it makes much difference. I think the spouse of an Irish citizen (which has stamp 4) still can travel to Schengen area without a visa as the spouse of an EU citizen. There are a few exceptions I think. Switzerland requires you to have a visa even if you are the spouse of an EU citizen.

littlerr · Post by **littlerr** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:34 pm

Every single sentence you have said is so wrong that I don't know where to start. Please stop hijacking the thread. Irish citizens are not able to apply for Stamp 4EUFAM (except for scenario above). Simple as that. If you need some entertainment, take a read at the EU Treaty Rights.

TropicalTornado · Post by **TropicalTornado** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:59 pm

littlerr wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:34 pm
Every single sentence you have said is so wrong that I don't know where to start. Please stop hijacking the thread. Irish citizens are not able to apply for Stamp 4EUFAM (except for scenario above). Simple as that. If you need some entertainment, take a read at the EU Treaty Rights.

Be calm my friend. Sorry for not asking for your permission before I talk. What I said was based on the travel info on Austrian Embassy website that I read a few years ago. I went to check their website but it has changed.

Anyway, be calm.

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