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Italian citizenship by descent (maternal) for UK national

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TallFriendlyGinger
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Italian citizenship by descent (maternal) for UK national

Post by TallFriendlyGinger » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:27 pm

Hi there,

I was hoping that there might be people on this forum who have had a similar experience or might be able to offer some advice/clarification.

My mother (with me helping) is attempting to apply for Italian citizenship through her Italian mother (deceased). We thought it would be simple however we are coming across some issues.

My Nonna (grandmother) was born in Italy in 1920 and moved to the UK in 1946 I believe, after marrying my English grandfather. My mother was born in 1964. We have a statement from the National Archives that my Nonna did not become a British citizen before 1986, however she did at some point in her life hold a British passport. It is unclear whether she became a British citizen as she would not have been able to fill out the forms herself due to literacy/language issues and none of her children remember helping her.
  • 1) Do we still need the statement from UK Visa and Immigration Office that she did not naturalise after 1986 up until her death? Even if she did naturalise after 1986, is my mother still entitled to Italian citizenship as my Nonna was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth?
  • 2) Did my Nonna's marriage to my grandfather in the 40s make her a British citizen automatically and thus negate her Italian citzenship?
  • 3) As my mother was born in 1964, does the 1948 rule not apply? She has siblings born before then so I presume they are excluded unless they go to court.
Apologies if these are quite basic questions, we might have gotten ourselves confused as there is a lot of conflicting information out there!

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ALKB
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Re: Italian citizenship by descent (maternal) for UK national

Post by ALKB » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:30 pm

TallFriendlyGinger wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:27 pm
Hi there,

I was hoping that there might be people on this forum who have had a similar experience or might be able to offer some advice/clarification.

My mother (with me helping) is attempting to apply for Italian citizenship through her Italian mother (deceased). We thought it would be simple however we are coming across some issues.

My Nonna (grandmother) was born in Italy in 1920 and moved to the UK in 1946 I believe, after marrying my English grandfather. My mother was born in 1964. We have a statement from the National Archives that my Nonna did not become a British citizen before 1986, however she did at some point in her life hold a British passport. It is unclear whether she became a British citizen as she would not have been able to fill out the forms herself due to literacy/language issues and none of her children remember helping her.
  • 1) Do we still need the statement from UK Visa and Immigration Office that she did not naturalise after 1986 up until her death? Even if she did naturalise after 1986, is my mother still entitled to Italian citizenship as my Nonna was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth?
  • 2) Did my Nonna's marriage to my grandfather in the 40s make her a British citizen automatically and thus negate her Italian citzenship?
  • 3) As my mother was born in 1964, does the 1948 rule not apply? She has siblings born before then so I presume they are excluded unless they go to court.
Apologies if these are quite basic questions, we might have gotten ourselves confused as there is a lot of conflicting information out there!
I thought that, until 1948, foreign women who married a British Subject automatically also became British Subjects?
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

secret.simon
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Re: Italian citizenship by descent (maternal) for UK national

Post by secret.simon » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:40 pm

ALKB wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:30 pm
I thought that, until 1948, foreign women who married a British Subject automatically also became British Subjects?
You may be right.
Paragraph 3.1.3 of the History of British Nationality (linked to below) wrote:the 1844 Act provided that a foreign woman who married a British subject acquired British subject status automatically on marriage.
Some background reading on the history of UK immigration and nationality laws.

History of the Immigration Acts
History of British nationality
British Nationality Acts

British Nationality Act 1948 (as enacted)
Immigration Act 1971 (as enacted) - Pay particular attention to Section 2
British Nationality Act 1981
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

TallFriendlyGinger
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Re: Italian citizenship by descent (maternal) for UK national

Post by TallFriendlyGinger » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:09 pm

Hi there,

Thank you for these I will take a look at the immigration laws information, you are right that foreign women marrying British nationals automatically acquired British citizenship, however there have been laws introduced in the 1900s (in both Italy and Britain) to make changes to this. In Italy in particular there were laws in 1975 and 1983 which ruled that Italian women should not lose citizenship if they married a foreigner, and could pass down their citizenship to children, however I do not think they were applied retroactively for those before 1948 (which means we missed out by 2 years!).

I have also found this online "The 1948 Rule also extends the equality principle is in the area of marriage to a foreign citizen. In 1975 the Italian Constitutional Court ruled that Italian women should not automatically lose their citizenship when marrying a non-Italian citizen (as had been the law previously). However, like the 1983 ruling about transmission of citizenship through the maternal line, this ruling did not apply to cases (marriage in this instance) occurring before 1948. The 2009 precedent from the Court of Cassation (the 1948 Rule) changed that, reinstating citizenship to Italian women who had married a foreign citizen prior to 1948. If you are claiming dual citizenship through such a female relative, the 1948 Rule allows you to have your case heard before the Court of Rome." so I am presuming that we will have to go to court in Italy to claim our citizenship which is frustrating but at least there is an option to follow.

secret.simon
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Re: Italian citizenship by descent (maternal) for UK national

Post by secret.simon » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:55 pm

TallFriendlyGinger wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:09 pm
I have also found this online
When you post online resources, it is always more helpful to us if you post the links to the resources, as it can come in handy for future research and also it allows us to critically analyse the information and the source.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

TallFriendlyGinger
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Re: Italian citizenship by descent (maternal) for UK national

Post by TallFriendlyGinger » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:32 pm

Apologies! The quoted text was from this website link https://www.mylawyerinitaly.com/legal-s ... 1948-rule/
I also found information here as well http://www.oliverpartners.it/claims-to- ... rnal-line/

It was difficult finding information for the loss of citizenship through marriage prior to 1948 rather than the typical 1948 case relating to birth.

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