Irish Passport Revoke marriage of convenience

Hi there ,i would like to know is there anyone has same problem like mine? After getting passport is anyone get blamed that there marriage was marriage of convenience.
i came in ireland from India 2005 as a student and met a girl after few years relation i got married 2012 . she did not work in ireland .In order to changing my status she was working few weeks. that's it .we had fight often for various reason.sometimes she goes home for few months and come back and trying to be together .
she was not living as well permanently but we had relation till 2018 and then we decided to broke up permanently and go for divorce.
I got my irish passport in january 2019 and divorce after 5 months.then i go back to india and marry someone and applied for her visa .After applying for her visa INIS sending me a letter that my residency will be revoke coz my marriage was for convenience and it may effect my Irish citizen.
Is anyone has similar problem like mine? i was discussing with few Solicitors all of them told me they never saw any case like this.Any suggestion ????

Regards

Let me guess....you didn't actually live together, you broke up but didn't inform INIS, you got divorced and didn't tell INIS...you got your Irish passport without telling them that you were not with your wife...

Is your exwife eastern european by any chance?

In a nutshell, INIS don't make a judgement on a MoC unless they have you bang to rights. You're losing your passport and your residence permission and eventually, you'll be deported.

UK245 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:22 am

Let me guess....you didn't actually live together, you broke up but didn't inform INIS, you got divorced and didn't tell INIS...you got your Irish passport without telling them that you were not with your wife...

Is your exwife eastern european by any chance?

In a nutshell, INIS don't make a judgement on a MoC unless they have you bang to rights. You're losing your passport and your residence permission and eventually, you'll be deported.

INIS does not always get things right and hence why they get beaten up in court.

I am dealing with a decent couple with 3 children, they split up for a bit and reconiled like any normal couple. INIS says their relationship is a marriage of convenience. They are 100% wrong and I am 100% confident they will fail. Therefore the notion that they are always right is simply wrong.

OP is not in a genuine marriage with 3 kids though, is he?

Marriage of convenience is a very serious accusation and you should take it seriously. If your believe your marriage was real go and get a good legal advice.
Unless your former wife came forward and admitted that marriage was not real you're in trouble.

UK245 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:35 am

OP is not in a genuine marriage with 3 kids though, is he?

No one on a forum, with little facts or evidence can reach that conclusion.

Obie wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:51 am

UK245 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:35 am

OP is not in a genuine marriage with 3 kids though, is he?

No one on a forum, with little facts or evidence can reach that conclusion.

I most certainly can, if only by reading the original post. Perhaps try it?

[quote=Obie post_id=1968799 time=1607428304 user_id=36693]
No one on a forum, with little facts or evidence can reach that conclusion.
[/quote]

There’s no point talking to a person who’s simply trolling here on a second username trying to dissuade everyone from getting help.

well I agree with @Obie they do stupid things and for sure they also do discriminate. I'm not facing exactly that problem but you can say similar to it..

I used to have choice to be quite and not to tell Department and just drag the marriage. but I choose to follow the right path divorce with mutual understanding. and applied for Retention of Rights submit around 400 pages file.. and still was refused in Jan 2020. and currently review is in process.

then I met solicitor and review FOI and Refusal letter together.. First thing I received just 15% of documents which I submitted.. then I sort out FOI Index page in date order.. there were lots of strange things we found..

For example I submit application on 12/09/2018 and on 13/09/2018 Next day clerk recommend to refuse my application, letter is in FOI file with date Another interesting thing they refused on basis of polish Authority email which was received on 05/10/2018 means after almost 3 weeks after my application.. means they refused my application before Polish Authority response as per clerk letter.. and were still asking me for documents for 15 Months.

I request them to even grant me temp stamp1 so my company can apply for CSP permit But department didn't.. so know all the Ireland charm is gone from my mind and ready to leave, if I have to..

Hello

This is a serious case. They don't question a citizenship just like that. I don't say they are right, but they must hold some serious things to build a case against you especially with the history you just described. Sometimes they can even receive a tip about a real or supposed immigration offence and they act upon it.

From your post, I understand:

- You came to Ireland in 2005 to study
- You married in 2012
- Your wife worked a few weeks in Ireland in order to be in position to sponsor you. I gather she worked just the time to get a proof of employment/revenue to use for your immigration application
- She was absent for months at a time (from the house or from Ireland?)
- You obtained an Irish citizenship in Jan 2019 and got a divorce 5 months later. When did you start the divorce? Did you start it after 5 months or was it pronounced 5 months after your citizenship?
- Then (When?) you went to India to bring a new wife and the INIS contacted you

You need to prepare documentation in order to fight back the claim of marriage of convenience. If you genuinely married, lived as a couple then things went wrong between you, that's not a marriage of convenience. It can happen to anyone. Prepare bills with both names, correspondence (emails/chat), photos, testimonies of friends and family (yours and hers), neighbours, service providers... etc. You need to show that at one point you were living together and known to form a couple.

In other hand, if:

- You never lived together
- She didn't live in Ireland save for a few weeks where she worked
- Everything was built just to get the citizenship

Then, it will be hard to fight back; not impossible, but still very hard and there is a risk that you lose the Irish citizenship.

In any case, I recommend you take a solicitor specialised in immigration litigation. Don't take anyone but find a senior one used to complex cases as this may go in front of a court if you decide to fight it.

Ok we know that the passport service has the power to revoke the passport if naturalisation application is revoked by the minister.
What happens after the revocation? Do they cancel the passport ? Or just simply impose a fine or prison sentence?

Why do only the non-Eu has to face a penalty? Eu citizen is also equally responsible for a marriage of convenience.

Hi there,

Why should Eu citizens be responsible for the marriage of convience? We don't need any visa etc to work in Ireland, only if you are a threat to the state, you can be banned from the entrance or deported (murderers, criminals etc, the marriage of convenience would never make anyone who got the Irish citizenship from EU to lose it).

As EU citizens we have much more rights than people arriving from out of EU. (even if they become EU citizens for them is easier to lose new citizenship including the passports. EU citizen is always citizen of the EU member state and citizen of EU.

The right to move and reside freely within the European Union is one of the four fundamental freedoms enshrined in EU law and a cornerstone of European integration. The promotion and strengthening of this right is a core objective of the European Union.

The importance of ensuring the protection of family life in order to eliminate obstacles to the exercise of the fundamental freedom of movement is recognised by the European Union and its Member States. If EU citizens were not allowed to lead a normal family life in the host EU country, their fundamental freedom would be seriously undermined.

EU citizens on the move who genuinely rely on EU law are fully protected by EU rules. However, as in any area of law, there will be cases where individuals may seek to abuse freedom of movement, in an effort to bypass national immigration rules. Abuse of the right to free movement undermines this fundamental right for EU citizens. Effectively tackling such abuse is therefore essential to upholding this right.

Investigating marriages of convenience

The EU presents the main tools used by national authorities to investigate marriages of convenience, namely simultaneous interviews or questionnaires, document and background checks, inspections by law enforcement, immigration or other competent authorities and community-based checks to check whether the couple is living together and jointly administer their household. In this context, it recalls the importance of respecting the rights of persons to a private life and the applicable safeguards and sets out common practices developed by national authorities to maximise the effectiveness of such tools.

Cross-border co-operation in tackling marriages of convenience

The EU indicates how effective detection, investigation, and prosecution of marriages of convenience can be facilitated through cross-border co-operation. It details in particular the assistance that can be provided to national authorities by Europol, where there is involvement of organised crime in trafficking in human beings, and by Eurojust, notably as regards the investigation or prosecution of specific acts, and coordination between national authorities. It also presents how Europol and Eurojust can help Member States set up Joint Investigation Teams, and the situations in which such teams can prove suitable and useful tools.

You should read this document.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites ... _bf_en.pdf

European Commission: Misuse of the Right to Family Reunification
Marriages of convenience and false declarations of parenthood produced by the
European Migration Network

Wishful thinking EU citizens involved in fa ke marriages business also get investigated and prosecuted. There were numerous of such cases.

Vernona

of course they are investigated, that is correct but, ie. German citizen who got Irish citizenship via naturallization would never lose it. That is a huge different between naturalised non EU and EU citizens. Personally, I would put in jail each and every person who doesnt respect the law of the country.

More wishful thinking
If citizenship was obtained by misrepresentation it can be revoked, zero difference, EU or non EU. Minister has power to do so.

CroUK wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:32 pm

Hi there,

Why should Eu citizens be responsible for the marriage of convience? We don't need any visa etc to work in Ireland, only if you are a threat to the state, you can be banned from the entrance or deported (murderers, criminals etc, the marriage of convenience would never make anyone who got the Irish citizenship from EU to lose it).

I have a question for you.
Does being an EU citizen and belonging here gives you a license to enter sham marriage?
Does that mean you can reside in any member state and contract a marriage solely for immigration purposes knowing that all the hazard is for nonEU and not you because you belong here ?
It takes two hands to clap not one!

EU citizen for puropse of getting another EU state citizenship doesnt need to get into sham marriage. For us is much easier to obtain citizenship of any other EU state. Why should anyone from EU living in another Eu state get into sham marriage? Sham marriage generally you can do to help someone, but is more damaging for non eu citizen than for EU citizen. Non EU citizen can be kicked out of EU without any problems, but where would be kicked EU citizen, to country where is he born or lived before coming to Ireland, that he or she can take next flight and come back with no problems. There is not even one case in Ireland that sham marriage made EU citizen to be kicked out from Ireland. *maybe fined or some jailed time, but it is almost impossible to move someone from one to another EU state. *even murderers can stay*

UK245 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:22 am

Let me guess....you didn't actually live together, you broke up but didn't inform INIS, you got divorced and didn't tell INIS...you got your Irish passport without telling them that you were not with your wife...

Is your exwife eastern european by any chance?

In a nutshell, INIS don't make a judgement on a MoC unless they have you bang to rights. You're losing your passport and your residence permission and eventually, you'll be deported.

We did not live together its true but we had relation. we are in relationship since 2006 and got married in 2011.we have photos from every year and i submitted all of them. even though she visited my india 2018 and meet with my families. when she come back she go back her country and asking for divorce. And i ask Divorce lawyer he told me u need 4 years separation out of five to do divorce . i told him we was travel together to my home 2018 February.He told me u can be still separated staying under same roof.then i put back date and did my divorce. before divorce i dont had any plan to do divorce so how i can let them know??

Supreme Court Rules that Procedure to Revoke Irish Citizenship is Unconstitutional


Commission as Amicus Curiae Welcomes Court’s Focus on Constitutional Rights

The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission (‘the Commission’) has today welcomed the Supreme Court ruling in a high-profile Supreme Court case (Ali Charaf Damache v the Minister for Justice and Equality), which focuses on the procedure for the revocation of Irish citizenship. The Commission has exercised its amicus curiae (‘friend of the court’) powers in this case.

The case examined the lawfulness of the existing procedure under Section 19 of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, which provides for a power to revoke Irish citizenship from people who acquire Irish nationality.

In today’s judgment, the Supreme Court held that the loss of citizenship is a matter of “grave significance” and ruled that the process for revocation must be robust.

The Court highlighted the need for an impartial and independent decision-maker in the decision to revoke citizenship. The Court found that the Minister for Justice starts the Section 19 process, appoints representatives to the investigating Committee of Inquiry (sought by the person whose citizenship is in jeopardy), and it is the Minister’s representatives who present the reasons for the proposed revocation. Finally, at the end of the statutory process, the Minister takes the ultimate decision on whether to revoke without being bound by the findings of the Committee.

The Commission made submissions to Court on both national and international human rights standards and argued that the revocation of citizenship will necessarily and seriously affect civil rights including the right to private and family life, the right to vote, and other statutory entitlements.

In delivering the Supreme Court ruling Ms. Justice Dunne set out that:

“Given the importance of the status of citizenship to an individual, I think it is quite clear that the process by which citizenship may be lost must be robust and at the very least… must observe minimum procedural standards in order to comply with the State’s human rights obligations.”

While the Court held that there was nothing to suggest that the members of the Committee of Inquiry were anything but independent in the exercise of their functions, it went on to find that the necessary procedural safeguards were not in place. Ms Justice Dunne concluded that Section 19 is unconstitutional:

“I have come to the conclusion that s.19 is does not meet the high standards of natural justice required and is therefore invalid having regard to the provisions of the Constitution.”

Sinéad Gibney, Chief Commissioner of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, stated:

“The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission has argued in our role as Amicus Curiae that any decision to revoke citizenship must have strong procedural safeguards. Today’s Supreme Court ruling has recognised that these safeguards are central to the process of revoking someone’s Irish citizenship in line with our Constitution.”

“Citizenship is inextricably linked with the right to identity and a range of civil rights, therefore the Commission welcomes today’s Supreme Court ruling.

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:41 pm

Hello

This is a serious case. They don't question a citizenship just like that. I don't say they are right, but they must hold some serious things to build a case against you especially with the history you just described. Sometimes they can even receive a tip about a real or supposed immigration offence and they act upon it.

From your post, I understand:

- You came to Ireland in 2005 to study
- You married in 2012
- Your wife worked a few weeks in Ireland in order to be in position to sponsor you. I gather she worked just the time to get a proof of employment/revenue to use for your immigration application
- She was absent for months at a time (from the house or from Ireland?)
- You obtained an Irish citizenship in Jan 2019 and got a divorce 5 months later. When did you start the divorce? Did you start it after 5 months or was it pronounced 5 months after your citizenship?
- Then (When?) you went to India to bring a new wife and the INIS contacted you

You need to prepare documentation in order to fight back the claim of marriage of convenience. If you genuinely married, lived as a couple then things went wrong between you, that's not a marriage of convenience. It can happen to anyone. Prepare bills with both names, correspondence (emails/chat), photos, testimonies of friends and family (yours and hers), neighbours, service providers... etc. You need to show that at one point you were living together and known to form a couple.

In other hand, if:

- You never lived together
- She didn't live in Ireland save for a few weeks where she worked
- Everything was built just to get the citizenship

Then, it will be hard to fight back; not impossible, but still very hard and there is a risk that you lose the Irish citizenship.

In any case, I recommend you take a solicitor specialised in immigration litigation. Don't take anyone but find a senior one used to complex cases as this may go in front of a court if you decide to fight it.

Prepare bills with both names, correspondence (emails/chat), photos, testimonies of friends and family (yours and hers), neighbours, service providers... etc. You need to show that at one point you were living together and known to form a couple. i submitted all of them . but it is true that she was not living ireland permanently.it was kind of distance relationship.but relationship was true.

You need to get a good solicitor. Provide as many docs as possible proving your relationship. Do not agree that you were not living together. In fact you should not reply directly to inis. Let all communication go through your solicitor. Revoking citizenship will not be easy for government unless you give them any proof that your marriage was sham. The onus is on applicants for visa purposes to prove marriage is real but you have been granted citizenship. So onus is now on them to prove marriage was of convenience. They won’t be able to revoke unles they can prove it

Guys, please the original post is very serious but it's losing momentum due to chatter.

Please open new threads for your own cases if relevant.

nojoyfrominis wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:04 pm

You need to get a good solicitor. Provide as many docs as possible proving your relationship. Do not agree that you were not living together. In fact you should not reply directly to inis. Let all communication go through your solicitor. Revoking citizenship will not be easy for government unless you give them any proof that your marriage was sham. The onus is on applicants for visa purposes to prove marriage is real but you have been granted citizenship. So onus is now on them to prove marriage was of convenience. They won’t be able to revoke unless they can prove it

Thanks for your suggestion. But what is true is true. we had distance relationship.we had relationship since 2006 and get married 2011. and 2019 i got passport. Middle of 2019 we got divorced . and that makes complicacy.I submitted all my documents but if they digging it will be easy for them to find out she was not living with me all the times .