EU Settlement scheme for parent of Irish citizen

Addressing two posts from user Lily1891 below, currently buried deep into other posts:

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:06 pm

Hello all,

I arrived the UK on 28th December with the intention of applying for the EUSS, as my 17 years old son is an Irish citizen. I have contacted the EU Settlement Resolution Centre online, requesting for the paper application form, at least three times since the 29th of December, and still have not received any response nor the application.

I don't know if I am doing this correctly. If there is anything I should know, I would appreciate some advice.

Thank you

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:08 am

@Zerubabel, kindly enlighten me on this application. I arrived the UK on 28th December 2020, with the intention of applying for pre-settled status under the EUSS, as my 17 years old son is an Irish Citizen.

I have requested for the paper application form, but haven't received it.

I am still in a hotel and house hunting, which is challenging, as I am in visitor visa. Can I apply for the non-EEA residency card?

Simply being the parent of a EEA national does not in itself make you eligible for the EU Settlement Scheme.

So, in order to be of help here, kindly start by giving us some background:

Is your son currently a resident in the UK? If so, when did he move to the UK? Has he attended education in the UK?
Is the other parent a EEA citizen? If so, are they resident in the UK, or have they been a resident in the UK?
Are you still with the other parent? If not, do you have the main custody of your child?

The answer to the above will shed some light onto wether you are eligible to apply for the EU Settlement Scheme or not.

Hello

I’m new. I see a lot of information about derivative rights but it appears, very little about Chen specifically. apologies, I’m new to this forum and I may not be searching right .
I’ve had a Chen visa for 4 years, with an Irish son under 18. I’ve applied for the EUSS, in Dec 2020. I have a few questions, I hope that’s ok.
Firstly, is it treated as a fresh Chen application? Secondly, does is really take 6 months? Lastly, can I request my existing BRC be returned, to allow me travel for a pre booked appointment? Would this affect my application? My son has been granted settled status, so this application only applies to me and my non EU toddler, who was also previously granted a derivative Visa with my own application.
I’m divorced and primary carer of my sons.
Much appreciated.
Xx

kamoe wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:49 pm

Addressing two posts from user Lily1891 below, currently buried deep into other posts:

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:06 pm

Hello all,

I arrived the UK on 28th December with the intention of applying for the EUSS, as my 17 years old son is an Irish citizen. I have contacted the EU Settlement Resolution Centre online, requesting for the paper application form, at least three times since the 29th of December, and still have not received any response nor the application.

I don't know if I am doing this correctly. If there is anything I should know, I would appreciate some advice.

Thank you

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:08 am

@Zerubabel, kindly enlighten me on this application. I arrived the UK on 28th December 2020, with the intention of applying for pre-settled status under the EUSS, as my 17 years old son is an Irish Citizen.

I have requested for the paper application form, but haven't received it.

I am still in a hotel and house hunting, which is challenging, as I am in visitor visa. Can I apply for the non-EEA residency card?

Simply being the parent of a EEA national does not in itself make you eligible for the EU Settlement Scheme.

So, in order to be of help here, kindly start by giving us some background:

Is your son currently a resident in the UK? If so, when did he move to the UK? Has he attended education in the UK?
Is the other parent a EEA citizen? If so, are they resident in the UK, or have they been a resident in the UK?
Are you still with the other parent? If not, do you have the main custody of your child?

The answer to the above will shed some light onto wether you are eligible to apply for the EU Settlement Scheme or not.

@Kamoe, thanks for your response and for starting this thread.
I moved to the UK with my son on 28th December 2020. We are still in the process of getting him enrolled in a school.
His father, whom I am still married to, is a non-EU Citizen and does not reside in the UK.

I have requested for a paper application form and have been notified that it will be sent to me.

I will appreciate your advice on what is needed for the application and additional documents that will help my case.

Thank you

When is your son turning 18?

kamoe wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:17 pm

When is your son turning 18?

He will be 18 in June 2021.

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm

He will be 18 in June 2021.

OK, I only asked because If his birthday was just a couple of months away you might have had a better chance just holding on applying until he turned 18 and apply as dependent parent of an adult, for which dependency is assumed. But that is not the case, June is too far away for you to stay on a visitor visa.

In complete honesty I am not sure how much of a realistic chance of success you have applying as Chen carer (I assume this is the route you are applying through), given you just arrived (no previous past residence in the UK) and he is almost an adult, who could realistically stay in the UK for study with your financial support but without your physical presence. But I might be wrong.

His own application on the other hand, will likely be straightforward and he will be granted Pre-Settled Status.

Good luck.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:23 am

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm

He will be 18 in June 2021.

OK, I only asked because If his birthday was just a couple of months away you might have had a better chance just holding on applying until he turned 18 and apply as dependent parent of an adult, for which dependency is assumed. But that is not the case, June is too far away for you to stay on a visitor visa.

In complete honesty I am not sure how much of a realistic chance of success you have applying as Chen carer (I assume this is the route you are applying through), given you just arrived (no previous past residence in the UK) and he is almost an adult, who could realistically stay in the UK for study with your financial support but without your physical presence. But I might be wrong.

His own application on the other hand, will likely be straightforward and he will be granted Pre-Settled Status.

Good luck.

Thanks, Kamoe. I pray for a successful application.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:23 am

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm

He will be 18 in June 2021.

OK, I only asked because If his birthday was just a couple of months away you might have had a better chance just holding on applying until he turned 18 and apply as dependent parent of an adult, for which dependency is assumed. But that is not the case, June is too far away for you to stay on a visitor visa.

In complete honesty I am not sure how much of a realistic chance of success you have applying as Chen carer (I assume this is the route you are applying through), given you just arrived (no previous past residence in the UK) and he is almost an adult, who could realistically stay in the UK for study with your financial support but without your physical presence. But I might be wrong.

His own application on the other hand, will likely be straightforward and he will be granted Pre-Settled Status.

Good luck.

As her son is an Irish citizen, does he even need to get pre-settled status? Irish citizenship gives him so much more than pre-settled status. e.g. access to UK benefits.

Moving his education to another country when he is age 17, is not going to be easy for him.

JB007 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:30 pm

As her son is an Irish citizen, does he even need to get pre-settled status? Irish citizenship gives him so much more than pre-settled status. e.g. access to UK benefits.

He doesn't need to apply, but this is needed if the parents want to apply, seeing they are applying after December 31st 2020. Also, having Pre-settled status will not take away his entitlements as Irish citizen.

Moving his education to another country when he is age 17, is not going to be easy for him.

Where I come from, people usually finish secondary education at age 16/17; and 17 is the precise age you go to university. I would not be surprised if a 17 year-old is seen as someone who can live independently, and hence why the parent's application might face challenges.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:23 am

His own application on the other hand, will likely be straightforward and he will be granted Pre-Settled Status.

Another post made me realise this is incorrect: He'll get Settled Status straight away, even if he just moved to the UK.

That's because he's Irish. Again, this does not interfere with his de facto rights as Irish citizen.

Hello Everyone,

I just received the paper application form, and I have some questions.

1. Other than the passport and maybe birth certificate, do other documents evidencing self sufficiency have to be original copies? I am asking because my bank statement, pension statement, and evidence of investments have to be emailed to me from my country.

2. Since my son only arrived in the UK on 28th December 2020, and has neither done any schooling in the UK nor registered with a GP, do I have to bring a letter from his school and hospital in Nigeria and do they have to be original copies, or will scanned copies suffice?

3. What evidence will be sufficient to prove the the child will be unable to live in the UK if I am required to leave? He may be 17 years old, but he has never travelled out of Nigeria and we do not have family in the UK.

4. We are presently staying in a hotel, as it has been difficult to get houses for rent with my visitor's visa and no UK reference. Is it ok to use the hotel address as our address in the UK?

Your responses and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Please I will appreciate a response to my concerns stated above, especially from those who are knowledgeable in the EUSS process.

Thank you.

As I have already said, I believe your application faces a significant challenge. I am answering your questions to the best of my knowledge.

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:24 pm

1. Other than the passport and maybe birth certificate, do other documents evidencing self sufficiency have to be original copies? I am asking because my bank statement, pension statement, and evidence of investments have to be emailed to me from my country.

I do not know. But since most applications can be done online, most supporting documents are submitted as electronic copies. It does not seem reasonable to accept electronic copies for some applications (when applying online) but demand physical original for others (when applying on paper). Check if at all in the accompanying instructions it says the opposite.

2. Since my son only arrived in the UK on 28th December 2020, and has neither done any schooling in the UK nor registered with a GP, do I have to bring a letter from his school and hospital in Nigeria and do they have to be original copies, or will scanned copies suffice?

Why are you asking this? Is this what you think you need to prove he is in the UK? Or is this a requirement explicitly requested on the form you have?

I imagine this could be the case to prove he has been in education or registered in the UK, so if that is the reason, then the Nigerian equivalent will not do.

If the reason is to prove his presence in the UK, he only needs to show either a stamp on his passport on arrival to the UK, or copy of the travel ticket he used. Do you have any of those?

3. What evidence will be sufficient to prove the the child will be unable to live in the UK if I am required to leave? He may be 17 years old, but he has never travelled out of Nigeria and we do not have family in the UK.

As I said, I believe this is the challenging aspect of your application.

The UK has built a business model out of wealthy teenagers, in many cases younger than 17, to come to study unaccompanied to the UK. I'm sure it is not unusual for a parent to come and supervise the setup and make sure their children are sorted, but that does not mean the parent has to stay along during the course of their teenage children's studies. So I am sorry to say that your argument of 'him never been in the UK' and 'not having a family here' is very weak to justify your own right to stay. Being abroad for the first time without immediate family is the case of thousands of foreign students, many younger than him. Purely based on statistics, he is completely capable to stay in the UK on his own to conduct his studies.

Is there anything else in his circumstances that you believe justifies the need for your continuous physical presence in the UK, beyond the short term you already have been granted on your visitor visa?

4. We are presently staying in a hotel, as it has been difficult to get houses for rent with my visitor's visa and no UK reference.

Because it is illegal for anyone to let you long-term accommodation on a visitor visa.

Is it ok to use the hotel address as our address in the UK?

In theory, yes. Other members have reported doing this, or knowing someone who have applied to the EUSS with a hotel address.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:10 pm

As I have already said, I believe your application faces a significant challenge. I am answering your questions to the best of my knowledge.

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:24 pm

1. Other than the passport and maybe birth certificate, do other documents evidencing self sufficiency have to be original copies? I am asking because my bank statement, pension statement, and evidence of investments have to be emailed to me from my country.

I do not know. But since most applications can be done online, most supporting documents are submitted as electronic copies. It does not seem reasonable to accept electronic copies for some applications (when applying online) but demand physical original for others (when applying on paper). Check if at all in the accompanying instructions it says the opposite.

2. Since my son only arrived in the UK on 28th December 2020, and has neither done any schooling in the UK nor registered with a GP, do I have to bring a letter from his school and hospital in Nigeria and do they have to be original copies, or will scanned copies suffice?

Why are you asking this? Is this what you think you need to prove he is in the UK? Or is this a requirement explicitly requested on the form you have?

I imagine this could be the case to prove he has been in education or registered in the UK, so if that is the reason, then the Nigerian equivalent will not do.

If the reason is to prove his presence in the UK, he only needs to show either a stamp on his passport on arrival to the UK, or copy of the travel ticket he used. Do you have any of those?

3. What evidence will be sufficient to prove the the child will be unable to live in the UK if I am required to leave? He may be 17 years old, but he has never travelled out of Nigeria and we do not have family in the UK.

As I said, I believe this is the challenging aspect of your application.

The UK has built a business model out of wealthy teenagers, in many cases younger than 17, to come to study unaccompanied to the UK. I'm sure it is not unusual for a parent to come and supervise the setup and make sure their children are sorted, but that does not mean the parent has to stay along during the course of their teenage children's studies. So I am sorry to say that your argument of 'him never been in the UK' and 'not having a family here' is very weak to justify your own right to stay. Being abroad for the first time without immediate family is the case of thousands of foreign students, many younger than him. Purely based on statistics, he is completely capable to stay in the UK on his own to conduct his studies.

Is there anything else in his circumstances that you believe justifies the need for your continuous physical presence in the UK, beyond the short term you already have been granted on your visitor visa?

4. We are presently staying in a hotel, as it has been difficult to get houses for rent with my visitor's visa and no UK reference.

Because it is illegal for anyone to let you long-term accommodation on a visitor visa.

Is it ok to use the hotel address as our address in the UK?

In theory, yes. Other members have reported doing this, or knowing someone who have applied to the EUSS with a hotel address.

@Kamoe, many thanks for taking the time to address my concerns.
1. I have sent a mail to the EU resolution centre requesting clarifications on whether scanned/photocopies of the documents will be accepted, as it is not stated in the instructions on the application form.

2. The letters from school and hospitals in Nigeria are to prove that he has been in my care. Yes, we have his proof of entry into the UK.

3. Though there is no other circumstance that may justify my staying with my son in the UK, he has just been enrolled in high school this week and I do not think it is reasonable to leave a child in high school alone in a country that he hasn't settled into.

4. I'll have to use the hotel address as my address, being that we will be staying there for a long time, while we continue trying to settle in.

Thanks again @Kamoe.

Lily, you came on a visitor visa. Whom are you visiting?

Please do not get me wrong. I'm being completely honest and spelling it out like pretty much everyone looking at your case will see it:

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:48 pm

there is no other circumstance that may justify my staying with my son in the UK

Then your case is a straight refusal, if you ask me.

he has just been enrolled in high school this week

In a foreign country he's never been to, where has no family or friends, and while on a global pandemics? This only highlights the last-minute nature of your situation, which looks more like an artificial reason rather than a valid and credible life decision.

I do not think it is reasonable to leave a child in high school alone in a country that he hasn't settled into.

Then why on earth did you enrol him in school in the UK?

NatCam question is key here. You came to the UK not to visit anyone -since you have no family or friends here- but with the sole intention to create the circumstances that could justify your right to stay. Anyone can see that, it's there in plain daylight.

Also, please take note that:

1. Paper applications take a while, currently due to covid, up to several months.
2. If at all you are successful, your card will be valid until your son's 18th birthday. After that, you'll no longer have the right to stay in the UK.
3. If this application is not successful, you would have likely endangered the credibility of the only other option that could be open to you under the EUSS: the application as dependent parent, on your son's 18th birthday. Because, how come in January you claim your son needs your care to the point that at 17 years of age he is not capable of leading an independent life, yet the moment he turns 18 you suddenly claim you are dependent on him? (Not saying this is what you are doing now, but what you would need to do if you were to apply as dependent parent).

By all means your son has the right to apply for status. But yours is far from straightforward. I really think you should prepare to receive a rejection, or, in the best of cases, wait for months only to be granted a status that is valid for just a very short period of time.

Of course I might be wrong. Stranger things have happened. I would be interested to know if this works and proven wrong.

How is your son an Irish citizen if he has lived in Nigeria all his life and his father is also a non EU citizen??

CR001 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:25 pm

How is your son an Irish citizen if he has lived in Nigeria all his life and his father is also a non EU citizen??

He was born in Ireland.

NatCam wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:53 pm

Lily, you came on a visitor visa. Whom are you visiting?

I have a 10 years visa which was issued in 2015, so I travelled with it. Besides, u must not be visiting anyone to get a visitor visa.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:21 pm

Please do not get me wrong. I'm being completely honest and spelling it out like pretty much everyone looking at your case will see it:

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:48 pm

there is no other circumstance that may justify my staying with my son in the UK

Then your case is a straight refusal, if you ask me.

he has just been enrolled in high school this week

In a foreign country he's never been to, where has no family or friends, and while on a global pandemics? This only highlights the last-minute nature of your situation, which looks more like an artificial reason rather than a valid and credible life decision.

I do not think it is reasonable to leave a child in high school alone in a country that he hasn't settled into.

Then why on earth did you enrol him in school in the UK?

NatCam question is key here. You came to the UK not to visit anyone -since you have no family or friends here- but with the sole intention to create the circumstances that could justify your right to stay. Anyone can see that, it's there in plain daylight.

Also, please take note that:

1. Paper applications take a while, currently due to covid, up to several months.
2. If at all you are successful, your card will be valid until your son's 18th birthday. After that, you'll no longer have the right to stay in the UK.
3. If this application is not successful, you would have likely endangered the credibility of the only other option that could be open to you under the EUSS: the application as dependent parent, on your son's 18th birthday. Because, how come in January you claim your son needs your care to the point that at 17 years of age he is not capable of leading an independent life, yet the moment he turns 18 you suddenly claim you are dependent on him? (Not saying this is what you are doing now, but what you would need to do if you were to apply as dependent parent).

By all means your son has the right to apply for status. But yours is far from straightforward. I really think you should prepare to receive a rejection, or, in the best of cases, wait for months only to be granted a status that is valid for just a very short period of time.

Of course I might be wrong. Stranger things have happened. I would be interested to know if this works and proven wrong.

@Kamoe, I actually appreciate your response, though I sought for advice, not admonishment. Thank God you won't be my caseworker.

My application will NOT be refused.

Yes, I came to the UK with the intention of applying for pre-settled status under the EUSS. Before doing so, I had sent enquiries to the EU Resolution Centre explaining my circumstance and I was advised to be in the UK with my son before 31st December 2020 and that he could start schooling as soon as he gets here.

I was also advised that if my application is granted, I will get a pre-settled status, not a short term approval, as you have stated.

I am more comfortable applying as what I am, his primary carer. I am not a dependant parent and won't be when he is 18. I don't even plan to be that at any point in his life. I came here with him for this, and I don't have to go into details, but he will not be left in the UK if I am to return to Nigeria, as he still needs parental care and guidance, whether 18 or not. Yes, I am that type of mother who has to be 100% sure before letting go, and 18 does not cut it for me.

I have read the Caseworker Guidance and for each requirement, there is an alternative provision for where applicants fall short. My caseworker will find my reasons sufficient and my application shall be successful. Wish me luck Kamoe.

That people will come to the just UK for the EUSS is a notorious fact, and that is why there is a provision for proving you have been in the UK for just one day before the deadline. People have their different reasons for migrating from one place to another, and they should not be judged. Most of us coming in will add value and not burden the country we find ourselves in.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with exploring an opportunity that presents itself, so long as it is not illegal.

Please try to air your concerns regarding other people's cases nicely, tone down the harshness, you almost sound angry, like I am coming to live in your house. Your immigration status may be just fine, but that does not make you judge and jury in anybody's case.

In giving your response, advice, suggestions, or thoughts, be nice, do not judge, and wish everyone well.

Regards.

Hi Lily,

All the best with your application. I have an existing derivative rights based on Chen, issues when my son was 14. He’s also Irish. I am currently applying for the EUSS, he’s 17 now, but will be turning 18 towards the end of the year. I think what kamoe was trying to say is that, caseworkers can sometimes be legalistic and pedantic, unfortunately as part of doing their jobs effectively. Objectivity can often times not come into it.
I was also advised that applying for my EUSS on the year he turns 18, could be problematic. The only advantage I have, is I was granted it previously, I have fully exercised it, and I continue to do so. Incidentally, I was granted it( chen) in any case till 2022, when he would turn 19, in the first instance.

I don’t think anybody on this forum wishes for anybody to be rejected. I also believe that often, being prepared for the sometimes arbitrary nature of their decisions, allows you plan and prepare for plan b, eg Dependent parent. Please note that it is not the wish or prayer of any parent on a dependent visa to be ‘dependent’ on their child, if you get what I mean .

You sound like a great mum, with a positive energy and attitude. Kamoe was simply speaking to you as a ‘potential case worker’ and not a ‘friend’... no caseworker is a friend and they won’t consider your positive energy or indeed your good intentions, it’s not their job to.

Please keep us posted, as we keep you in our prayers. We all here, are hoping our individual cases are treated humanely and with compassion, and when they are not, I think this is a great place to for support and hard facts.

I have to add, I was rejected when I applied for chen, on the grounds that we could very well return and leave my 14 year old son in a boarding house, we were also told my other Dependent younger non EU son could stay with relatives in our homes country, AND that I showed not enough evidence that I was flushed with enough cash to never be dependent on the state. This with all the evidence I provided of my fathers enormous (said humbly and for context only) wealth, and the fact that I was educated privately in boarding schools and university in the UK from the age of 13 to 23. I never applied to naturalise because, well.. it never occurred to me .. loll. By the time it did, I was already back in my home country and broke my stay. I had to go to court at great legal expense, and the judge overturned the decision and adjudged their reasons as baseless. This took all of 18 months!!!

Evidence and probable backing is not always enough.

Please stay positive.. I genuinely hope yours is a testimony and a celebration. Keep us updated, I’ll also keep the group updated about my own case. Just reading people’s accounts gives hope and allows for better application strategies.

Thanks Kamoe, I’ve always enjoyed reading your objective responses x

Chin up Lilly... your story will be a testimony

S x

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:23 am

Wish me luck Kamoe.

I already did. I thought you had noticed.

Shanice wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:42 am

I have to add, I was rejected when I applied for chen, on the grounds that we could very well return and leave my 14 year old son in a boarding house, we were also told my other Dependent younger non EU son could stay with relatives in our homes country, AND that I showed not enough evidence that I was flushed with enough cash to never be dependent on the state. This with all the evidence I provided of my fathers enormous (said humbly and for context only) wealth, and the fact that I was educated privately in boarding schools and university in the UK from the age of 13 to 23. I never applied to naturalise because, well.. it never occurred to me .. loll. By the time it did, I was already back in my home country and broke my stay. I had to go to court at great legal expense, and the judge overturned the decision and adjudged their reasons as baseless. This took all of 18 months!!!

Thanks Shanice. This is what I was trying to alert of, and it is helpful to have a real-life case as a reference. When you say that the judge overturned their decision, are you referring to your first rejection as Chen carer, or to something related to your naturalisation?

Thanks Kamoe, I’ve always enjoyed reading your objective responses x

Thanks so much for these words. We are all unpaid volunteers, it is good to know what we do is appreciated.

The judge overturned the HO decision to reject my application as a Chen Carer, she felt I had given more than enough plausible evidence and on the balance of probabilities, I had shown enough historical evidence of never having to depend on public funds. She also felt, their argument that I could put my son in boarding house did not negate his need to have his carer (myself) reside in the UK with him. Etc

I have never naturalised as I legally no longer am eligible for now. I broke my continuous stay and I would need to amass another stretch of continuous stay.

Thanks again for your time .. this forum is a lifeline for most xx

S

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:23 am

Please try to air your concerns regarding other people's cases nicely, tone down the harshness, you almost sound angry, like I am coming to live in your house.

That is not true imho he tries to help people. He knows how you feel because if you read his first posts on this forum, you will see that he too is a non-EEA citizen who has used an EU citizen for the EU Setttlement Scheme. He is on the forum giving his time for free to try to help others.

Lily1891 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:23 am

Most of us coming in will add value and not burden the country we find ourselves in.

If you have the skills the UK wants, have you looked at applying for these visas as a Plan B? Both lead to settlement.
https://www.gov.uk/skilled-worker-visa
or
https://www.gov.uk/innovator-visa