Obtaining German citizenship by descent

Hello everyone. This is my first post so bear with me!

My mother was born out of wedlock to a German mother and British father in 1947 in Germany. My grandparents emigrated to the UK with my mum and her sister in 1948 so I assume my nan was naturalised as a British citizen but not sure whether she may have also retained her German citizenship? If she lost her German citizenship automatically does this mean the line of descent is lost?

I was born in 1970 in the UK. I've been researching family tree going back go great, great grandparents on my nan's side, all German.

Would it be worth me pursuing citizenship (and German passport) by descent? Thanks in advance!

Forgot to add, both my grandparents and my my mum are sadly deceased.

German nationality law is extremely restrictive of dual citizenship. For instance, if a German citizen were to apply to naturalise now (after the end of the transition period), they would lose their German citizenship automatically when they acquire British nationality.

There is a broad exception when it comes to acquiring the citizenship to another EU country. So one could freely acquire and retain both German and British citizenships while the UK was in the EU and in the transition period thereafter.

So if your mother naturalised as a British citizen, it is quite possible that she may have automatically lost her German citizenship.

You may want to find out when she naturalised (from the viewpoint that the laws at the time of her naturalisation may have been different and also whether she lost or had German citizenship at the time of your birth may be relevant).

You can contact the (UK's) National Archives to see if they have any records of your mother's naturalisation or registration as a British citizen.

I'll cc @ALKB and @alterhase58 into this conversation as they are more knowledgeable about questions relating to Germany.

Elfriede wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:33 pm

Hello everyone. This is my first post so bear with me!

My mother was born out of wedlock to a German mother and British father in 1947 in Germany. My grandparents emigrated to the UK with my mum and her sister in 1948 so I assume my nan was naturalised as a British citizen but not sure whether she may have also retained her German citizenship? If she lost her German citizenship automatically does this mean the line of descent is lost?

I was born in 1970 in the UK. I've been researching family tree going back go great, great grandparents on my nan's side, all German.

Would it be worth me pursuing citizenship (and German passport) by descent? Thanks in advance!

She might have been a dual national from birth and not naturalised at all.

You have to first look at British citizenship law - was the child of an unmarried British man automatically a British citizen from birth in 1947?

If so, she would not have lost her German nationality. Do you have any documents like her childhood passport?

If you know her place of birth, you as her daughter can get a birth certificate from the local archive. That would be a start.

Then you have to look at German citizenship law in 1970. I just checked and a cursory glance does not bode well. Children of a German mother married to a foreign national born between 1953 and 1975 had the possibility to get German citizenship by declaration. This was generally possible until 1977. It was still possible if the child, of no fault of their own, was hindered to make the declaration. You might have been able to argue that you were a child and unable to do such a thing on your own/educate yourself about the possibility, etc. But even then you might have had to formally declare yourself a German citizen within six months of reaching your majority. Sadly, this has only been possible til 2006.

Were your parents married at the time of your birth? If not, and you can prove that your mother never lost her German citizenship, there may be a possibility.

In any case, I recommend to contact the German Embassy and get advice on this.

Ack! More complications! Did your grandparents marry? If so, when? Before or after 1953?

Many thanks Simon. My uncle has my nan's old German passports and I've asked him if my mum appears on any of these. I'll keep you posted!

Hello ALKB, thanks for your reply. My parents were not married when I was born. My grandparents married in England in 1948 so were unmarried when my mum was born in 1947. I have already ordered my mum's German birth certificate from the standesamt in Bochum where she was born. I read somewhere that she would have to have been registered within a year of birth in Germany to receive citizenship.

ALKB wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:54 pm

You have to first look at British citizenship law - was the child of an unmarried British man automatically a British citizen from birth in 1947?

The answer to that is straightforward: No.

However, such children could automatically acquire British citizenship after 1949 if they were legitimised by a subsequent marriage of their parents.

Under English (also applicable to Wales) law, your mother would have been legitimised by the subsequent marriage of her parents in England and therefore your mother may have automatically acquired British citizenship by the marriage of your grandparents in England in 1949.

So question to @ALKB, would it impact German citizenship if the child born without British citizenship in 1947 then acquired British citizenship by automatic operation of the law after 1949 (when the BNA 1948 came into force) by a subsequent marriage of their parents?

Thanks Simon. Just to update you, I've put a request into the National Archives here in the UK asking for them to look up whether my mum or grandmother were naturalised. I should hear in about 10 days. It would be helpful to know.

Elfriede wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:19 am

Hello ALKB, thanks for your reply. My parents were not married when I was born. My grandparents married in England in 1948 so were unmarried when my mum was born in 1947. I have already ordered my mum's German birth certificate from the standesamt in Bochum where she was born. I read somewhere that she would have to have been registered within a year of birth in Germany to receive citizenship.

That is unfortunate for you.

Until 1953, children born out of wedlock to a German woman and a foreign national lost their German citizenship when the parents married, so as I understand it, your mother lost her German citizenship in 1948. As secret simon pointed out, she was not automatically British, and I am not sure if the loss was prevented because she would have been stateless otherwise.

Until 1949, a German woman who married a foreign national automatically lost her German citizenship at the time of marriage, regardless of whether she would then be stateless or not. So, I think your grandmother lost her German citizenship in 1948, too.

Nevertheless, I would collect all paperwork you can get your hands on and get advice from the German Embassy. You could ask for a 'determination of citizenship' (§ 30 Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz (StAG)) to be sure whether you are or aren't German by birth.

If that comes back negative, you may be able to make an application for German citizenship as per § 14 Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz (StAG) but you might have to show that you have German language skills apart from an exceptional connection to Germany. I would strongly recommend getting advice from a specialized lawyer in Germany about that.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:34 pm

So question to @ALKB, would it impact German citizenship if the child born without British citizenship in 1947 then acquired British citizenship by automatic operation of the law after 1949 (when the BNA 1948 came into force) by a subsequent marriage of their parents?

Yes, citizenship law 1945-1953 is especially tricky regarding children born out of wedlock and marriage to foreign nationals. I think both the grandmother and mother lost their German citizenship automatically when the German grandmother married the British grandfather. I replied to the OP with a bit more detail.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:34 pm

So question to @ALKB, would it impact German citizenship if the child born without British citizenship in 1947 then acquired British citizenship by automatic operation of the law after 1949 (when the BNA 1948 came into force) by a subsequent marriage of their parents?

Automatic acquisition of another citizenship does not usually lead to loss of German citizenship, at least not nowadays. It's the act of actively applying for naturalization that results in loss.

I have no idea what the view on that was in the 1940s. I think the more pressing issue is that of automatic loss of citizenship through marriage of the parents in 1948.

Do you know if it is possible to obtain a copy of my grandmother's passport (I think my mum would have been on her one as she was only a baby)? I can only find a passport from 1972 which would be a British one.

I've just received my mother's birth certificate from the Standesamt in Bochum. There are no details of her father which I find strange. Was it usual at that time to not include father's name if the couple were not married or the father foreign?

I could be entirely wrong, but I'm fairly certain that it was standard practice that the paternity of illegitimate children (those born outside marriage) was not recorded on the birth certificates in most of the Western world till the 1980s/90s.

Paternity outside marriage did not have any legal effect for the child (such a child could not inherit from the father), though some countries did give the father the option to acknowledge paternity after the child's birth. But that would likely have been in a separate document, not in the birth certificate.

Elfriede wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:13 am

I've just received my mother's birth certificate from the Standesamt in Bochum. There are no details of her father which I find strange. Was it usual at that time to not include father's name if the couple were not married or the father foreign?

To be entered into the birth certificate, the father has to officially declare his fatherhood, if the parents are not married. This can be done before the birth is recorded, so that the initial birth certificate already shows both parents, or afterwards, in which case the certificate gets corrected. This is the case even today and the declaration of parenthood his a quick formality.

It seems your grandfather never declared to be your mother's father before the German authorities. He probably thought it unnecessary with the plans to go back to the UK.

Sometimes, it is worth it to ask for an image of the actual entry into the birth register. Often, there are little notes by the recording official that shed more light on the circumstances.

Hello, I've just found out that my grandparents married twice; first in Germany in 1945 and then in England in 1948. My grandmother requested a certified copy of my mum's birth certificate from the British Consul General in Dusseldorf in 1965 which I think means she was still German at that point, even after my grandmother married. I was born in 1970 before my mum married.

Elfriede wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:26 pm

Hello, I've just found out that my grandparents married twice; first in Germany in 1945 and then in England in 1948. My grandmother requested a certified copy of my mum's birth certificate from the British Consul General in Dusseldorf in 1965 which I think means she was still German at that point, even after my grandmother married. I was born in 1970 before my mum married.

A birth certificate just shows birth in Germany, not citizenship. Many people are born in Germany, never obtain citizenship and are of course still entitled to a birth certificate.

There is still the problem of a German woman automatically losing her German citizenship when marrying a foreign national, which would have been the case in 1945.

I think it would be an excellent idea to take all the documentation you can find to the German Embassy and ask for a determination of citizenship, if they can't tell you right away.

Thank you ALKB. I am gathering lots of evidence and will indeed visit the German Embassy when allowed.

Elfriede wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:26 pm

Hello, I've just found out that my grandparents married twice; first in Germany in 1945 and then in England in 1948. My grandmother requested a certified copy of my mum's birth certificate from the British Consul General in Dusseldorf in 1965 which I think means she was still German at that point, even after my grandmother married. I was born in 1970 before my mum married.

Another hing that occurred to me - if your grandparents were married when your mother was born, the father should have been mentioned on the birth certificate.