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Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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CULLINAN
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Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:30 pm

*Question on behalf of someone I know in my circle*

Dear all,
I need help regarding the following case. Since, I do not have much knowledge about the EUSS Family Permit route, I would request and appreciate any help from the experts here. TIA.

Overview:
Girl: German National lives in UK since 2008, I believe has Settled Status.
Boy: Lives in Pakistan.
Marriage: November 2019 in Pakistan. Girl went to Pakistan to get married.

Background:

The boy applied for an EUSS Family Permit in Dec 2019 but was refused (reason that marriage certificate is not accepted), applied a couple of times after that and refused again. The last time was pursued by a solicitor in UK but still unsuccessful.

Ahmadis in Pakistan
Unfortunately, Ahmaddiya Muslim Community in Pakistan is declared as non-Muslims in their own country since 1974. They are denied basic rights and oppressed in their own country even being Pakistani Citizens.

Therefore, the couple’s marriage is not registered in Pakistan. But instead, Ahmaddiya Muslim Community (Ahmadis) has their own process to register marriages. Although, Ahmadi’s marriage is not registered in Pakistan by Government’s registrar, but NADRA ( National Database & Registration Authority) PAKISTAN (official government institution) does acknowledge the marriage and issues a National Identity Card and Family Registration Certificate which has the husband name as the applicant.

The refusal is as follows:

Refusal:
Reasons for Refusal
On XX November 2020 you made an application for an EU Settlement Scheme (EUSS) Family Permit under Appendix EU (Family Permit) to the Immigration Rules on the basis you are a 'family member of a relevant EEA citizen'.
I have considered whether you meet the validity, eligibility and suitability requirements for an EUSS Family Permit, which are set out in Appendix EU (Family Permit) to the Immigration Rules (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... eu-family- permit). You can also find out more about the requirements in the guidance on GOV.UK (https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/eu-set ... ily-permit).
 You have stated that the family relationship of yourself to the EEA citizen is spouse.
 As evidence of your relationship with your sponsor you have provided your Ahmadiyaa marriage certificate dated XX November 2009 (2009 is an error, it was 2019)
 Every marriage solemnized under Muslim law is mandatory to be registered with the Union Council under the provisions of the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance 1961 in Pakistan. Ahmadiyaa community are not entitled to register their Nikah with the registration authorities, under the provisions of Muslim Family Ordinance.
The Home Office policy for overseas marriages and civil partnerships can be found here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... /attachmen t_data/file/835362/Partner_divorce_and_dissolution_guidance_v.1.0ext.pdf which states:
A marriage or civil partnership which has taken place overseas is recognised where:
 The type of marriage or civil partnership is recognised in the country in which it took place
 The marriage or civil partnership was properly conducted to satisfy the requirements of the law of the country in which it took place
 There is nothing in the laws of either person’s country of domicile at the time of the marriage or civil partnership which prevents the marriage or civil partnership being recognised
 Any previous marriages or civil partnerships of the couple have broken down permanently
The marriage must have been recognised by a competent authority within that
country. i.e. someone with authority to certify that the marriage is valid. That person must be someone who is authorised to handle marriages in the country concerned. The competent authority must be someone akin to a UK registrar, who is authorised to handle marriages. . It has been noted that the marriage does not appear to have been recognised within the country it took place, as a result, the Home Office is unable to accept the marriage certificate as valid and therefore cannot be used as evidence of your claimed relationship to your EEA sponsor

• I am not satisfied, based on the evidence you have provided in isolation, that you are a 'family member of a relevant EEA Citizen'.
• Your application is refused.


Next Steps
If you have further evidence you want us to consider, you can make another application under the EUSS Family Permit at no cost: https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/eu- settlement-scheme-family-permit
If you have any questions or would like to discuss this letter, details on contacting us can be found on our website: https://www.gov.uk/contact-ukvi-inside-outside-uk/y.
You can also appeal this decision to the First Tier Tribunal under the Immigration Citizens’ Rights Appeals (EU Exit) Regulations 2020. You have 28 days from the date since you received this decision to appeal.
You can appeal on the basis that the decision is not in accordance with the EUSS Family Permit rules, or that it breaches any rights you have under the Withdrawal Agreement, the EEA EFTA Separation Agreement, or the Swiss Citizens’ Rights Agreement. You may bring or continue an appeal from inside or outside the UK.
Information and support on how to appeal, the process, and the fees payable are all available online at [https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-tribunal/overview].
You can get help and advice from a solicitor or an immigration adviser. You can also contact Citizens Advice. If you are not getting help from a legal representative you can read the guide on representing yourself.

_______________________________________________

I have seen hundreds of cases where the same marriage certificate (Ahmaddiya Muslim Community) is accepted in UK/US/Canada etc. Once NADRA (Pakistan’s official government organisation) accepts you as husband and wife in Pakistan, the marriage certificate is recognised abroad.

Question:
HO already acknowledges:

Every marriage solemnized under Muslim law is mandatory to be registered with the Union Council under the provisions of the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance 1961 in Pakistan. Ahmadiyaa community are not entitled to register their Nikah with the registration authorities, under the provisions of Muslim Family Ordinance.


How are they supposed to register the marriage certificate instead?? NADRA already acknowledges them as husband and wife and accepts the Ahmaddiya marriage certificate.

Any thoughts how to go about this issue?

Thank you
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manci
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by manci » Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:43 pm

Although this Upper Tribunal case doesn't deal directly with the issue of recognition of Ahmadi marriages there is a lot of background information here that you may find useful:
https://tribunalsdecisions.service.gov. ... 2-ukut-389

I note that there is an Ahmadi organisation in the UK referred to in the proceedings that may be worth approaching

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by manci » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:05 pm

There is a High Court (Family Division) case that is directly related to the recognition of Ahmadi marriages:

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2011/2132.html

Note the para: at the end

I am quite satisfied that this is a marriage which is informally but, importantly, recognised for all purposes in the Pakistani State, because officials will recognise the marriage based upon the evidence of the certificate in the ways that Professor Menski and Dr Ayaz described. I do not accept that Ahmahdis, even though they are declared as non-Muslims, are in fact in any different position from adherents to other religious groups who also cannot register their marriages in Pakistan. It is quite clear to me, therefore, that this marriage should and must be recognised as valid in this jurisdiction.

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Obie » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:18 pm

I agree with Manci, that the decision is clearly flawed.

The decision maker is conflating the recognition of the marriage as an Islamic marriage, and the recognition of it as a valid marriage.

An Ahmadis marriage is accepted in Pakistan as a marriage but not an Islamic marriage.

If it were not recognised as a marriage then Ahmadi couples who engage in sexual activity will be treated as committing a crime.

Acceptance by NADRA ought to have sufficed. The government officials are seeking to engage in complex matters for which they have no understanding.

The decision is unsustainable.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:44 am

manci wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:43 pm
Although this Upper Tribunal case doesn't deal directly with the issue of recognition of Ahmadi marriages there is a lot of background information here that you may find useful:
https://tribunalsdecisions.service.gov. ... 2-ukut-389

I note that there is an Ahmadi organisation in the UK referred to in the proceedings that may be worth approaching
Thank you very much Manci for your reply. Yes Ahamdi’s leader is based in UK (unsafe to go to Pakistan as Ahmadis are oppressed there) and have a lot of presence over the world including UK itself. Apparently, a letter was issued from Ahmaddiya Organisation from UK also, but it was not accepted either. This is very surprising to me as I know many cases where same marriage certificate was accepted.
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:46 am

manci wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:05 pm
There is a High Court (Family Division) case that is directly related to the recognition of Ahmadi marriages:

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2011/2132.html

Note the para: at the end

I am quite satisfied that this is a marriage which is informally but, importantly, recognised for all purposes in the Pakistani State, because officials will recognise the marriage based upon the evidence of the certificate in the ways that Professor Menski and Dr Ayaz described. I do not accept that Ahmahdis, even though they are declared as non-Muslims, are in fact in any different position from adherents to other religious groups who also cannot register their marriages in Pakistan. It is quite clear to me, therefore, that this marriage should and must be recognised as valid in this jurisdiction.
Thank you again. This is very useful!!
So what do you reckon the next step should be?
The boy has lost the case a couple times on his own. The UK solicitor could not get it turned over in the appeal either!!
Last edited by CULLINAN on Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:49 am

Obie wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:18 pm
I agree with Manci, that the decision is clearly flawed.

The decision maker is conflating the recognition of the marriage as an Islamic marriage, and the recognition of it as a valid marriage.

An Ahmadis marriage is accepted in Pakistan as a marriage but not an Islamic marriage.

If it were not recognised as a marriage then Ahmadi couples who engage in sexual activity will be treated as committing a crime.

Acceptance by NADRA ought to have sufficed. The government officials are seeking to engage in complex matters for which they have no understanding.

The decision is unsustainable.
Thank you Obie for the reassurance. Means a lot coming from an expert like yourself!
Yes, NADRA accepted the marriage and family registration certificate was provided which accepts German girl as Pakistani boy’s legal wife. However, the marriage certificate itself obviously is issued by the Ahmaddiya Organisation itself (which has been the process since 1974).

What should be the next step please?

Thank you.
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Obie » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:06 am

Should appeal i believe. The decision maker was trying to act smart, by deciding to act in a Novel way.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:18 am

Obie wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:06 am
Should appeal i believe. The decision maker was trying to act smart, by deciding to act in a Novel way.
Perfect. Will do. I have also gone through the Family High Court Case mentioned by @Manci and it clearly states that Ahmadi marriages are considered valid in Pakistan. Should not be hard to get the decision over turned in appeal now. Will keep this thread posted with the outcome.

PS: The UK incompetent solicitor ate the £3k and could not get it overturned. Wish the couple could have spoken to me earlier and I could have asked help here from you experts. But well its never too late! Fingers crossed!

Thank you and @Manci again.
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:31 am

@Obie @Manci

There is a twist. The German girl just sent me the full cover letter her barrister used. The barrister already mentioned the above family court case in the cover letter and still the application was refused!!

The Pakistani guy applied 2 times from Dubai (as he worked there) and was refused.
The guy then went to Pakistan and applied 2 times from there and was refused again.
This is the 5th time applied via barrister and refused.

The case has been refused 5 times just because the marriage certificate is not accepted as valid marriage!

The barrister will let them know about the appeal procedure and costs tomorrow now!

Question:
If the above family court case was already used as reference in the cover letter and the history of refusals were provided, why is it still refused the 5th time?
Is there any chance of success on appeal?

Thank you 🙏
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Obie » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:33 am

I am not convinced that a lawful competent judicial officer will be inclined to share the views of the Home Office.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:35 am

Obie wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:33 am
I am not convinced that a lawful competent judicial officer will be inclined to share the views of the Home Office.
👍 Thank you.
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Riaata » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:44 pm

Hi ..

Have u got any solution .. my sister husband visa refused on 29th march 2021 and mine mother in law and husband as well becuae3 they do not accept ahmadiyya marriage cert.under Euss scheme
I have seen many people got visa under this scheme on ahmadiiya marriage cert . And do accept for british spouse visa .
When u re applied did u attach union council letter from pakistan and letter from pakistan rabwah marriage office ?

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:58 pm

Riaata wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:44 pm
Hi ..

Have u got any solution .. my sister husband visa refused on 29th march 2021 and mine mother in law and husband as well becuae3 they do not accept ahmadiyya marriage cert.under Euss scheme
I have seen many people got visa under this scheme on ahmadiiya marriage cert . And do accept for british spouse visa .
When u re applied did u attach union council letter from pakistan and letter from pakistan rabwah marriage office ?
Sorry to hear.
The solicitor/barrister has filed an appeal awaiting outcome. Yes all letters from Pakistan, Rabwah, UK were sent but they did not accept it. I have known many people under EUSS scheme too whose Ahmadiyya marriage certificate was accepted but not sure what the problem is now.

Was your husband and mother in law able to get then?
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Riaata » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:10 pm

Omg appeal would take alot of time 😭😭😭 why with us I was gonna Re-apply... with all the proof and union council letter .. did your wife meet with local mp and told her ?

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Riaata » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:17 pm

Did u attested your marriage cert with foreign affairs?

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 pm

Riaata wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:10 pm
Omg appeal would take alot of time 😭😭😭 why with us I was gonna Re-apply... with all the proof and union council letter .. did your wife meet with local mp and told her ?
Please read the thread from the start. It is not for my wife but someone I know. He applied 5 times and refused so appeal is the only solution now.
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Riaata » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:42 pm

Oh am sorry totally forgot .. If u don't mind can I have contact email or number of your friend as I need help we need to do something about this.as its not fair

Many thanks

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:16 am

Riaata wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:42 pm
Oh am sorry totally forgot .. If u don't mind can I have contact email or number of your friend as I need help we need to do something about this.as its not fair

Many thanks
Sorry. According to the board T&Cs we can not share personal info here.
However, I will keep this thread updated with the outcome. You are welcome to post on the public forum and seek help.
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Riaata » Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:52 pm

Update with the help of my MP home office reconsider my mother in law application and issued visa and I submitted new application for my husband so they told my husband they will accept Ahmadiyya marriage cert and will issue visa as soon as possible .https://questions-statements.parliament ... -05-11/386

This is link where home office minister said they do accept ahmadiiya marriage cert .

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by CULLINAN » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:25 am

Thank you for the useful update.
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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Hf123 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:38 am

Riaata wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:52 pm
Update with the help of my MP home office reconsider my mother in law application and issued visa and I submitted new application for my husband so they told my husband they will accept Ahmadiyya marriage cert and will issue visa as soon as possible .https://questions-statements.parliament ... -05-11/386

This is link where home office minister said they do accept ahmadiiya marriage cert .
Hi Could I please get ur email so I can send u my contact details please

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Riaata » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:41 am

[[Email address removed by moderator]]

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by Hf123 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:03 pm

Riaata wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:41 am
[[Email address removed by moderator]]
Thank you I have emailed you please check

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Re: Refusal of EUSS Family Permit

Post by secret.simon » Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:49 pm

Do not post personal email addresses or any personally identifiable information on public forums like these, which are open to all, including potential spammers.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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