Romein / 4C claim for citizenship by double descent

Hi all, I'm in the process of helping my mum apply for her ILR as she's coming up to the end of her 5 year Ancestry Visa.

However, in researching the ILR steps I became aware of the Romein ruling on citizenship by double descent. I'd like to explore if this route is available to her instead of ILR+citizenship because it will be thousands of pounds cheaper.

But I can't wrap my head around it yet. Here are her circumstances:

– She was born in Canada in 1958, to Canadian-born parents
- All four of her grandparents on both maternal and paternal side were British born, and immigrated to Canada.
- Neither of my mum's parents received citizenship by descent from her grandparents. In the maternal side, I understand this would have been impossible because her maternal grandfather would not have been able to register his child, her mum, since she was a girl. On the paternal side, it's a bit more complicated why my mum's dad didn't receive citizenship from his parents – in short, his birth was never registered anywhere, and there is no birth certificate. But even if he had been registered as British, he wouldn't have been able to pass that on to my mum as she was a girl, if I understand.

Is my understanding correct that she may be able to claim through her maternal line?

The only complicating factor I see is that it could be argued her father could have received citizenship from his parents through registration up to 1 year after birth. But even if he had, he couldn't have passed that onto my mum anyway.

Thanks for any insight.

Assuming that your mother was born before 1983, yes, she should be able to apply on Form UKM (Guidance).

rastica wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:38 pm

her maternal grandfather would not have been able to register his child, her mum, since she was a girl.

That is not quite correct. As her maternal grandfather was born in the UK, his children of both genders born abroad would have been British subjects (later CUKCs) automatically. However, his daughters would not have been able to register their children born abroad as British subjects/CUKCS.

So, while your mother's mother would have been born a British subject/CUKC by descent, she would not have been able to register your mother as a British citizen, while her brother (if she had any) would have been able to register his children as British subjects/CUKCs before 1983.

You will need her maternal grandfather's birth certificate, her maternal grandparents marriage certificates, her mother's birth certificate and her parents' marriage certificate.

Thank you for this advice! Wow this is great news if she can go this route; it will really save us so much money.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:18 pm

So, while your mother's mother would have been born a British subject/CUKC by descent, she would not have been able to register your mother as a British citizen, while her brother (if she had any) would have been able to register his children as British subjects/CUKCs before 1983.

And it doesn't matter that my mother's mother was never registered as or exercised her British citizenship?

Bonus question: would my brother, born 1981, be eligible by triple descent? (I was born after 83, unfortunately!, but have already received my ILR anyway so no matter.) I believe not, but just thought to ask and be sure!

Thank you also for listing the documents. We have all of those, as we needed them for the Ancestry visa.

I'm so excited to submit this application!

The Form UKM looks pretty straightforward to fill out, but I'm still stumped on this question:

State how your Mother acquired citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies:
If this was by registration or naturalisation, give the certificate number:

Going off secret.simon's statements, they say "your mother's mother would have been born a British subject/CUKC by descent".

I'm concerned that my mum's mother never exercised that right (and has no certificate number etc), and don't know how to answer the question of how she acquired citizenship?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

rastica wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:25 am

State how your Mother acquired citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies:
If this was by registration or naturalisation, give the certificate number:

Going off secret.simon's statements, they say "your mother's mother would have been born a British subject/CUKC by descent".

I'm concerned that my mum's mother never exercised that right (and has no certificate number etc), and don't know how to answer the question of how she acquired citizenship?

Your mother's mother acquired her British citizenship by legitimate descent from her father, who was born in the UK. Therefore, to prove it, you will need her birth certificate, her parents' marriage certificate and her father's birth certificate from the UK (the "her" in the above sentence referring to your maternal grandmother, as your mother is the applicant).

In addition, your mother will also need her own birth certificate and her parents' marriage certificate.

Your maternal grandmother does not need to have exercised her British citizenship (or more accurately her CUKC status). You just need to prove that she was a British citizen by descent herself.

rastica wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:03 pm

would my brother, born 1981, be eligible by triple descent?

No. Form UKM only goes back two generations. One of the requirements for Form UKM is that either the applicant or one of their parents or grandparents was born in the UK. Great-grandparents don't count.

I really, really appreciate this insight! Thank you @secret.simon!

This board is always so invaluable, truly one of the best & most generous places on the internet.

I'll post back my timeline/status when I get a decision.

Thanks!