Foreign Birth Registration

It has been a very long time since I (re)started this thread and years since I checked in. Today, I had the notion of doing so only to discover that the FBR section have taken 2 years and 4 months to process an application. Kudos.

My own process took up 10 months from FBR application to passport receipt and I recall being pretty frustrated about that. This took place in 2018-2019 when the excuse of the moment was Brexit. Doubtless, it has since moved on to Covid and perhaps the conflict in Ukraine will provide new material to justify delays and inefficiencies in the workings of the FBR section.

You all have my sympathies that you are having to endure such an elongated process. I don't have that much patience. Best of luck to you all.

Congratulations Sooze! When were your documents received? Mine were received Jan 27 2020 and still waiting!

Sooze wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:02 pm

It's finally happened - we have the emails confirming that my children's applications have been accepted! 2 years 4 months later!

Congrats! When were your documents received?

Sulla wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:05 pm

It has been a very long time since I (re)started this thread and years since I checked in. Today, I had the notion of doing so only to discover that the FBR section have taken 2 years and 4 months to process an application. Kudos.

My own process took up 10 months from FBR application to passport receipt and I recall being pretty frustrated about that. This took place in 2018-2019 when the excuse of the moment was Brexit. Doubtless, it has since moved on to Covid and perhaps the conflict in Ukraine will provide new material to justify delays and inefficiencies in the workings of the FBR section.

You all have my sympathies that you are having to endure such an elongated process. I don't have that much patience. Best of luck to you all.

Thank you for creating the thread... It's been a useful source of info. And yes it's a bit gutting to read about people getting the FBR done in a year when we have to wait so long, but it is what is.

I hope you make use of your Irish citizenship! We will live vicariously through you!

Sulla wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:05 pm

It has been a very long time since I (re)started this thread and years since I checked in. Today, I had the notion of doing so only to discover that the FBR section have taken 2 years and 4 months to process an application. Kudos.

My own process took up 10 months from FBR application to passport receipt and I recall being pretty frustrated about that. This took place in 2018-2019 when the excuse of the moment was Brexit. Doubtless, it has since moved on to Covid and perhaps the conflict in Ukraine will provide new material to justify delays and inefficiencies in the workings of the FBR section.

You all have my sympathies that you are having to endure such an elongated process. I don't have that much patience. Best of luck to you all.

Good to see you back here Sulla. My own FBR took 14 months and was finally granted in September 2020 although that was expedited due to my wife's pregnancy. I finally got to use my Irish passport for the first time last month when I went to Australia. Just getting the documents ready for my daughter's FBR application now. Not looking forward to another long wait!

Hi, newbie to this thread - but this seems to be the best info out there for application wait times! So thank you for all your posts, which I’ve read with fascination this morning.

I myself applied only last summer (Aug ‘21). At the time, the foreign births info I saw online (I thought) said that once you paid the fee (and got the confirmation email back for that) and once you sent the documents to Ireland for processing - the only confirmation that the documents received, were from the recorded delivery tracking (saying it had been received at the destination).

So far I have had zero correspondence from the Foreign Births department, since that mail tracking confirmation it had arrived at their offices.

Fully expecting to wait another year or so until the application is finished, but does this sound normal to you folks? Or should I have received an email from them by now?

Many thanks,
John

Sirjack1982 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:36 am

Hi, newbie to this thread - but this seems to be the best info out there for application wait times! So thank you for all your posts, which I’ve read with fascination this morning.

I myself applied only last summer (Aug ‘21). At the time, the foreign births info I saw online (I thought) said that once you paid the fee (and got the confirmation email back for that) and once you sent the documents to Ireland for processing - the only confirmation that the documents received, were from the recorded delivery tracking (saying it had been received at the destination).

So far I have had zero correspondence from the Foreign Births department, since that mail tracking confirmation it had arrived at their offices.

Fully expecting to wait another year or so until the application is finished, but does this sound normal to you folks? Or should I have received an email from them by now?

Many thanks,
John

They suspended the delivery confirmation emails during COVID, so it sounds pretty normal to me!

Angelo_2019 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:56 pm

Artwerk wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:13 pm

Do we really have to know the witnesses personally? I don't have anyone from the list of professions who could do this, or could I just go to the police station good enough?

I'm not sure where you're located, but I would think going to the police station should be good enough.

I'm located in the US and went to notaries at my bank (FBR, passport). My impression is that seeing them in person with ID and talking to them in person is enough to establish that you are a real local person (i.e. not a bot), I did not have any issues with either one. (Aside from processing delays noticeably in excess of all their expected times.)

Ok, that sounds promising, thanks for replying

Sulla wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:05 pm

You all have my sympathies that you are having to endure such an elongated process. I don't have that much patience. Best of luck to you all.

Welcome back Sulla! Me and you went through the FBR process in 2019 and both our applications were processed speedily as we were ahead of the main Brexit rush and before Covid. At the time, me and you had very different views about the application process - you were very upset about the delays, even to the point that you were blaming individual laziness, and were in the process of taking litigation against them: ireland/foreign-birth-registration-t214 ... l#p1752505 My view was that it was not a personal thing - it was just a queue, and the only thing you can do in a queue is wait.

I've currently got two cousins waiting for their applications to be processed, and the advice I've given them is that the most constructive thing they can do is to try and forget about their applications and carry on with life - a watched pot never boils and all that. There seems to be a clear pattern on here - a few people will make a lot of very bitter posts during the processing period, but eventually will be delighted when they get their FBR, tell everyone else to hang on in there and they then disappear.

Your last post suggests that you'd still advise people like my cousins not to just accept the need to wait in such a long queue. The idea of taking action against FBR came in for a bit of ridicule over the past year, when one particularly bitter chap from the UK, who'd only just applied, started advising us to take all sorts of action (including writing to the Queen!) before he was eventually banned. However, your post above has got me wondering if I'm missing a trick here - is there something more I should be advising my cousins to do rather than just waiting in the queue? Could you tell us what you were able to achieve with the litigation you took against FBR, and whether that's something others should be doing?

BrexitEscapee wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:23 am

Sulla wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:05 pm

You all have my sympathies that you are having to endure such an elongated process. I don't have that much patience. Best of luck to you all.

Welcome back Sulla! Me and you went through the FBR process in 2019 and both our applications were processed speedily as we were ahead of the main Brexit rush and before Covid. At the time, me and you had very different views about the application process - you were very upset about the delays, even to the point that you were blaming individual laziness, and were in the process of taking litigation against them: ireland/foreign-birth-registration-t214 ... l#p1752505 My view was that it was not a personal thing - it was just a queue, and the only thing you can do in a queue is wait.

I've currently got two cousins waiting for their applications to be processed, and the advice I've given them is that the most constructive thing they can do is to try and forget about their applications and carry on with life - a watched pot never boils and all that. There seems to be a clear pattern on here - a few people will make a lot of very bitter posts during the processing period, but eventually will be delighted when they get their FBR, tell everyone else to hang on in there and they then disappear.

Your last post suggests that you'd still advise people like my cousins not to just accept the need to wait in such a long queue. The idea of taking action against FBR came in for a bit of ridicule over the past year, when one particularly bitter chap from the UK, who'd only just applied, started advising us to take all sorts of action (including writing to the Queen!) before he was eventually banned. However, your post above has got me wondering if I'm missing a trick here - is there something more I should be advising my cousins to do rather than just waiting in the queue? Could you tell us what you were able to achieve with the litigation you took against FBR, and whether that's something others should be doing?

As you will recall, I made an official complaint to the Embassy and in addition to that to the FBR section through the complaints process of the DFA. I received a written reply from the head of compliance and the FBR section about the delays. Specifically, I highlighted that it it had taken them 3 months to print my certificate since I was added to the register in November 2018 and was still waiting for it in February. I also attacked them based on their failure to follow their own stated policy which was to reject applications with errors or omissions. This they did not do and probably continue not to do. It was stated in parliament that about half of the applications had such issues and it as consuming a lot of time to contact applicants and sort them out. Applications without errors were being held in a queue while those with issues were being considered instead of rejected. Therefore, those people who filled in their forms properly were being disadvantaged by the ineptitude of others and the "kindly attitude" of the department. The FBR section did not deny that my assertions on this were accurate or that they were violating their own stated procedures. As you may recall, I received my certificate very swiftly after the complaint response. I let it die after that because I would have nothing to gain beyond a symbolic sum and the lawyer advised against now I had the certificate. Also the passport application process was dreamy in comparison and this mellowed me a bit.

As for your cousins, if the FBR section is still in the business of holding the hand of people who can't fill out a form properly and if they still state on that form that incomplete or incorrect forms will be rejected (words to that effect) then your cousins could take up that line of attack. There is absolutely a vulnerability there. When I went to submit my passport application at the embassy, the guy knew all about the complaint and was apologetic and deferential. Some people will feel better to be doing something active like complaining during the process. It certainly made me happier to know that various people in the DFA had to take time away from reading the newspaper and chatting by the coffee machine to write me what amounted to a sorry letter. Call me vindictive if you will, but I derive satisfaction from knowing that the people who are causing me pain / annoyance are getting some back in return. Everyone is different though. I do not advise writing to the queen.

You may also remember that I went through the Turkish CBI process at the same time as the Irish FBR one. It was completed in 3 months and had more documentation and background checks. Now I am in Portugal, putting in another 3.5 years for their passport. Apparently, the citizenship process takes about 4 months to conclude here. If we take these two examples and contrast with the situation in Ireland, we can see that it is not ideal. Unlike you, I will never have a favorable opinion of the FBR department. It is just not possible. We went through ordeals. People now are going through something far worse.

Following that last post, I would like to reassure the newbies to the forum that most of us are here to give each other advice and support. We don’t sneer at people who might make a mistake on the form and we don’t think the FBA staff are our enemies.

Sulla wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:29 am

Some people will feel better to be doing something active like complaining during the process. It certainly made me happier to know that various people in the DFA had to take time away from reading the newspaper and chatting by the coffee machine to write me what amounted to a sorry letter. Call me vindictive if you will, but I derive satisfaction from knowing that the people who are causing me pain / annoyance are getting some back in return.

Okay, we're obvious not going to agree on the above, but rather than going off the topic of FBR applications, perhaps you could do something positive like you did last time you were frequenting the forums regularly? "Sulla's list" of application/approval dates was a really useful resource for forum users as it was the most reliable way that people could gauge how soon their application was likely to be processed.

I don't personally believe that anyone will achieve anything by writing complaint letters to ombudsmen or starting legal proceedings etc, however you've described how you feel it helped you and was something practical you were able to do rather than just stressing and moaning. It would therefore be really helpful if you could share the correspondence between yourself, the Irish authorities and your solicitor (suitably anonymised of course) as this would demonstrate how there may be something people can do to expedite their applications, plus your correspondence could act as a template to anyone who would want to do the same.

BrexitEscapee wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:09 pm

Sulla wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:29 am

Some people will feel better to be doing something active like complaining during the process. It certainly made me happier to know that various people in the DFA had to take time away from reading the newspaper and chatting by the coffee machine to write me what amounted to a sorry letter. Call me vindictive if you will, but I derive satisfaction from knowing that the people who are causing me pain / annoyance are getting some back in return.

Okay, we're obvious not going to agree on the above, but rather than going off the topic of FBR applications, perhaps you could do something positive like you did last time you were frequenting the forums regularly? "Sulla's list" of application/approval dates was a really useful resource for forum users as it was the most reliable way that people could gauge how soon their application was likely to be processed.

I don't personally believe that anyone will achieve anything by writing complaint letters to ombudsmen or starting legal proceedings etc, however you've described how you feel it helped you and was something practical you were able to do rather than just stressing and moaning. It would therefore be really helpful if you could share the correspondence between yourself, the Irish authorities and your solicitor (suitably anonymised of course) as this would demonstrate how there may be something people can do to expedite their applications, plus your correspondence could act as a template to anyone who would want to do the same.

The list was easy to maintain, but required some effort to get off the ground. When I stopped posting, I hoped someone else would pick it up or do something similar.

The FBR section needs to be expanded and more funding to improve throughput. The only way that is likely to happen is through people making some noise. If Turkey and Portugal can manage to have systems that get things done in 3-4 months, Ireland should too. All three nations have high levels of citizenship applications and Turkey and Portugal are considerably poorer states.

I will have a dig through my emails for those letters. I thought I posted the response from the FBR head already in the forum? It's been so long, I can't even remember which email I used.

Hi posted this once, but would appreciate any help here:

1) Can I have my FBR cert sent to a different address (my mother's house for example)?
2) Does someone have to sign for the FBR cert when it arrives?

I live in California, but me and my family will not be in California for the first 6 weeks of this summer.

Thanks!

BrexitEscapee wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:09 pm

Sulla wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:29 am

Some people will feel better to be doing something active like complaining during the process. It certainly made me happier to know that various people in the DFA had to take time away from reading the newspaper and chatting by the coffee machine to write me what amounted to a sorry letter. Call me vindictive if you will, but I derive satisfaction from knowing that the people who are causing me pain / annoyance are getting some back in return.

Okay, we're obvious not going to agree on the above, but rather than going off the topic of FBR applications, perhaps you could do something positive like you did last time you were frequenting the forums regularly? "Sulla's list" of application/approval dates was a really useful resource for forum users as it was the most reliable way that people could gauge how soon their application was likely to be processed.

I don't personally believe that anyone will achieve anything by writing complaint letters to ombudsmen or starting legal proceedings etc, however you've described how you feel it helped you and was something practical you were able to do rather than just stressing and moaning. It would therefore be really helpful if you could share the correspondence between yourself, the Irish authorities and your solicitor (suitably anonymised of course) as this would demonstrate how there may be something people can do to expedite their applications, plus your correspondence could act as a template to anyone who would want to do the same.

There was/is an online spreadsheet somewhere that was very useful to track timelines. It’s possibly not being updated anymore, does anyone know what the link to it is?

Since I asked this question a while back and some kind person posted the link, allow me to do the same:

Ok. That didn't work as planned. Let me try this:

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/127de6t5A5Q3XzKBOIVHKjnE9Mn0-Xjl3EhYBB2D2epA/edit#gid=0

Just add https://

You know, I wasn't going to reply to Sulla. I was just going to keep my mouth shut. But his post has been nagging on me and I have to say something. I am a professional litigator. As far as I am concerned, the folks in Ireland are doing their best under bad conditions. First, they had Brexit and then Covid. The perfect storm. Whe I applied, it was only supposed to take about 8 months. I am into my 26 month with no word. But that is OK. Because if I were to file suit and to force my application to the top, then I am knocking someone more deserving down. They have waited paitently, so should I. I am also causing a disruption in the flow of the system, which may increase everyone else's wait. Apparently, he has 1 citizenship, and then two, so now he is going for three. So Sulla does not NEED Irish citizenship. He just wants it. And he wants it NOW.

Also, I cannot criticize the officials with cutting us applicants some slack with the paperwork. Getting a legal form perfectly correct when you have never filled it out before is hard. Besides, cutting us some slack means that the staff has to waste less time on trivial issues being returned and then re-examining the same application later. Cutting us some slack benefits us in multiple ways, so we should be grateful.

I also like the suggestion that the staff be expanded. A suggestion coming from a non-citizen non-taxpayer. Sure, we paid our fees, but the infrastructure is provided by the Irish taxpayers. Just as this offer of citizenship is coming from the Irish taxpayers. We should be grateful for their largess, instead of biting the hand that feeds us. I don't care what other countries do. Every country is different. If we want to be Irish, then we must accept the Irish way.

walter3ca wrote: ↑

Sun May 01, 2022 7:06 am

You know, I wasn't going to reply to Sulla. I was just going to keep my mouth shut. But his post has been nagging on me and I have to say something. I am a professional litigator. As far as I am concerned, the folks in Ireland are doing their best under bad conditions. First, they had Brexit and then Covid. The perfect storm. Whe I applied, it was only supposed to take about 8 months. I am into my 26 month with no word. But that is OK. Because if I were to file suit and to force my application to the top, then I am knocking someone more deserving down. They have waited paitently, so should I. I am also causing a disruption in the flow of the system, which may increase everyone else's wait. Apparently, he has 1 citizenship, and then two, so now he is going for three. So Sulla does not NEED Irish citizenship. He just wants it. And he wants it NOW.

Also, I cannot criticize the officials with cutting us applicants some slack with the paperwork. Getting a legal form perfectly correct when you have never filled it out before is hard. Besides, cutting us some slack means that the staff has to waste less time on trivial issues being returned and then re-examining the same application later. Cutting us some slack benefits us in multiple ways, so we should be grateful.

I also like the suggestion that the staff be expanded. A suggestion coming from a non-citizen non-taxpayer. Sure, we paid our fees, but the infrastructure is provided by the Irish taxpayers. Just as this offer of citizenship is coming from the Irish taxpayers. We should be grateful for their largess, instead of biting the hand that feeds us. I don't care what other countries do. Every country is different. If we want to be Irish, then we must accept the Irish way.

Agreed. For most of us this is something of a cool convenience not an absolute necessity. More of a privilege than a human right. Also I can't see the point of treating citizenship like Pokemon but each to their own.

walter3ca wrote: ↑

Sun May 01, 2022 7:06 am

You know, I wasn't going to reply to Sulla. I was just going to keep my mouth shut. But his post has been nagging on me and I have to say something. I am a professional litigator. As far as I am concerned, the folks in Ireland are doing their best under bad conditions. First, they had Brexit and then Covid. The perfect storm. Whe I applied, it was only supposed to take about 8 months. I am into my 26 month with no word. But that is OK. Because if I were to file suit and to force my application to the top, then I am knocking someone more deserving down. They have waited paitently, so should I. I am also causing a disruption in the flow of the system, which may increase everyone else's wait. Apparently, he has 1 citizenship, and then two, so now he is going for three. So Sulla does not NEED Irish citizenship. He just wants it. And he wants it NOW.

Also, I cannot criticize the officials with cutting us applicants some slack with the paperwork. Getting a legal form perfectly correct when you have never filled it out before is hard. Besides, cutting us some slack means that the staff has to waste less time on trivial issues being returned and then re-examining the same application later. Cutting us some slack benefits us in multiple ways, so we should be grateful.

I also like the suggestion that the staff be expanded. A suggestion coming from a non-citizen non-taxpayer. Sure, we paid our fees, but the infrastructure is provided by the Irish taxpayers. Just as this offer of citizenship is coming from the Irish taxpayers. We should be grateful for their largess, instead of biting the hand that feeds us. I don't care what other countries do. Every country is different. If we want to be Irish, then we must accept the Irish way.

We have a different view on things evidently.

I don't agree with the notion that staying silent and accepting the inefficiency of the Irish FBR process is the way to go. The fact that other nations are doing a quick job in similar circumstances absolutely is relevant. It shows what is achievable. In general, as a species, humans are characterized by a desire to improve things. Just leaving things as they are and never reforming hasn't really been the go to strategy since the Qing Dynasty or in a European context perhaps the medieval papacy. I really fail to understand why if someone raises an obvious flaw he should be condemned as being anti-Irish and going against the Irish way of doing things. I disagree totally with that. There is nothing particularity Irish about massive delays and inefficiency. On the whole, the business culture of Ireland is similar to the UK and quite innovate. Suggesting that one sub-section of the DFA is doing a pretty dismal job and the situation could and should be remedied is just logical and completely in line with normal practice in Ireland. I also don't see what citizenship status has to do with anything. A Malaysian chap who never set foot in Ireland is perfectly entitled to comment that the FBR department is not setting the world ablaze with high performance. He would still be right whatever his nationality.

In addition to this, allow me to clarify some things:
1) I am an Irish citizen and have been since Nov 2018.
2) I own apartments in Dublin which I rent out. I pay more in tax to Ireland than the average person of working age - despite never having lived there or having used any of their social services.
3) I have UK, St Kitts, Turkish and Irish passports. I am working on Portuguese. I need my passports as much as the next guy.

The above facts have been posted in this thread long ago and will be known to members like BrexitEscapee. I would not expect everyone to know them, but it helps to have clarity so people will avoid unproductive lines of argument.

Slightly Off topic
But I’m hoping someone can answer.

When I join FBR (should be any week or so now I hope) and subsequently apply/get my Irish passport I’ll be the only one within my family (wife & 2 kids) who has one alongside my UK passport. The wife & kids are UK passport holders.

When it comes to passport control entry in EU countries, can my wife and kids join me in the EU queue or would I need to join them in the Non EU queue ? Bearing in mind I’ll have 2 passports at this point.

jamiepompey wrote: ↑

Sun May 01, 2022 5:48 am

There was/is an online spreadsheet somewhere that was very useful to track timelines. It’s possibly not being updated anymore, does anyone know what the link to it is?

Yes - that spreadsheet is potentially a great resource for FBR applicants, but it's only as good as the information that people enter into it. Therefore, I think it's a no-brainer that it should be added to the Ireland forum as a 'sticky' to make it more prominent. However, for reasons related to the next paragraph(!) it would be the kiss of death for the spreadsheet if I were to request a moderator turned it into a sticky - perhaps someone else could do that?

And Sulla - yes, you're right: I know all about your multiple citizenships and your reasons for wanting them, but our arguments about the morality of avoiding tax whilst criticising tax-funded services didn't exactly go down well with the moderators. So that's why I'm suggesting that it would be helpful if you could provide practical help for current applicants rather than us discussing the politics of the situation. As I said before, I don't personally believe that making representations to the Irish authorities will actually help anyone in the queue, but if you think your correspondence could act as a template which would actually make a difference to people's waiting times, then if you shared anonymised copies, maybe some forum members might try going down that route.

Here is my letter of complaint. As requested. It was made on March 7th 2019. On the 22nd of March I received a reply and my certificate was in my hands not long after - maybe a week. This of course could all be coincidence. However, it is also true that I received my passport well before people who applied at similar times to me even finished their FBR process. Of course, where we applied from also may factor into this. It is a black box. With that said, I would still do it again because it is impossible to say whether or not the complaint moved things along more swiftly. My own feeling is that it did.
I made this complaint and a separate Freedom of information request pertaining to the numbers of incomplete applications and refusals. The FOI request was rebuffed because "the documents do not exist" with the dept claiming that they don't maintain any records of incomplete applications or how they are handled. This I believe totally. My image of the FBR section is something like the storage room of a very old library with boxes and scrolls everywhere and the contents largely unknown or forgotten about.

Complaint below:

Thank you for the swift reply.



As background: I filed my FBR application in August 2018. I was approved for citizenship and entered on to the Foreign births register in late November 2018. I am still waiting for my FBR certificate to be sent to me. My source of concern does not lie with the decision made, so the conventional appeals route is not suitable.



This complaint relates to the issue of lengthy FBR processing times. However, it pertains to a very specific breach of procedure by the department that has exacerbated the delays. This stems from an incongruity between how it is stated incomplete applications will be handled and actual practice. This discrepancy has and continues to feed into the ever increasing wait times that people (like me) who submitted complete applications are experiencing. The FBR application form clearly states in the closing sentence that:



Incomplete or incorrect applications will be returned



Please note the use of the word "will" there. There is no ambiguity. Not a hint of may, could or might.



Now, if we turn to a recent statement by the Tanaiste and minister for foreign affairs and trade given as an answer to a parliamentary question in Jan 2019, we find that 50% of applications are incomplete. Link below.



https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/qu ... nswers-164





Moreover, an expanded version is currently posted on the DFA website under the citizenship section dated Feb 7th 2019. Again link pasted below:



https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizenship/citizenship/



Foreign Birth Registration, by its nature, can be a detailed and complex process often involving official documentation related to three generations and issued by several jurisdictions. Along with an increase in the number of applications received, an increase of incomplete applications has also been seen. Approximately 50% of applications received are not complete. Applications requiring clarification or further documents take longer to process. In addition, these incomplete applications delay the processing of the complete applications



In essence, the latter version constitutes an admission by the DFA that time is being squandered on dealing with rectifying incomplete applications, including corresponding with people in an effort to gather everything required. This is in contravention of what the application form states and doubtless consumes (as is indicated in the text) enormous amounts of time as officers attempt to follow up with applicants who were unable to follow a simple set of instructions. It is also directly stated that dealing with these incomplete applications negatively impacts the processing times for those applicants who were actually capable of submitting complete applications.



If the FBR section had adhered to policy as stated on the application form and simply directly returned any incomplete applications to their senders, I and many others who submitted complete applications, would not be in our current predicament. As it is, I have suffered damage as I presently have no physical documentation (FBR certificate) to prove citizenship status for the purpose of acquiring a passport or exercising other civil rights. This is a direct result of a misapplication of procedures on the part of the FBR section.



I would like to initiate a discussion and source responses on the following matters:



1) What will the department do to rectify current handling of incomplete applications?

2) What sanctions will be taken against staff members involved?

3) What level of compensation is the department prepared to offer for the injury suffered as a result of this negligence?



Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.



Best regards,


FOI Request reply
I suspected the FOI request would not go places, but the lawyer advised me to submit one and this is a way of letting institutions know that you are serious.

Dear Mr XXXXXXX
I refer to the request which you have made under the Freedom of Information Act 2014, in which you requested the following:
"l would like to source records held by the department that relate to Foreign Births Registration. Specifically, I am interested in statistics relevant to incomplete applications within the span of time 14th August 2018 to Jan 10th 2019. I would like to know how many incomplete applications were received, how many were directly returned to their senders and the percentage of incomplete applications received that were directly returned to their senders. If only larger time-frames are available, I will accept whatever information you have."
I refer also to the acknowledgement of your request which was sent to you on 21 March 2019.
I am the Deciding Officer in this case.
Having conducted a search of the Department's records, I have not located any documents that fall within the scope of your request. Therefore your request falls for refusal on administrative grounds under Section 15(1) (a) of the Freedom of Information Act, as "the record concerned does not exist."
However, it may be of interest to you to know that in 2018, 25,283 applications for Foreign Births Registration were made to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. In the same time frame, 17,414 entries were made in the Foreign Births Register.



Response from the office of Simon Coveney
This came much later and affirmed the 50% level, which was some of the info sought from the FOI request. By then, I had lost interest though.

17 July 2019




Our Ref: xxxx





Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,



On behalf of the Tánaiste and Minster for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Mr. Simon Coveney T.D., I would like to thank you for your enquiry in relation to the number of incomplete Foreign Births Registration (FBR) applications received.



Foreign Births Registration, by its nature, can be a detailed and complex process often involving documents covering different generations and several jurisdictions. It has been the experience of our teams that a significant volume of applications require follow up action before they can be processed. Due to resource constraints it is not possible to keep an ongoing record of this follow up. However based on the experience of officials dealing with these applications on a daily basis I’m informed that it can be as high as 50%.



The Department has responded to increased demand by creating a new Foreign Birth Registration team to review and streamline processes. This will introduce improvements for efficiency, data based decision making for identifying trends and for security, particularly with regards to identity.



A link is also provided to assist and advise applicants with the FBR process:



https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship



Yours sincerely,





_______________

XXXXXXXXXX

Private Secretary

In addition to these, I have a few other replies, the main one being from the head of FBR. It has a lot of details that need edited out. I will get to it.I also have correspondence from an Irish law firm that were ready to pursue the case - at least before I got the certificate.

Also, can I just preempt any negativity here by saying that I am posting this because someone (Brexitescapee) requested I do so. I am not encouraging anyone to do anything. My process is long over and I have no skin in this game. If you find my approach to be too unforgiving, strict or basically devoid of flexibility, that's fine. I suggest just looking at the application form as written and contrasting with actual practice. I prefer to focus on what is correct rather than what is nice. In fact, my application was delayed due to the FBR section being nice to other applicants who filled out their form wrongly or incompletely. That is evident from the statements made and received above.

MKCG wrote: ↑

Mon May 02, 2022 6:12 pm

Does the kids count in this situation also?

Children, yes.
Here's the link from that email:
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/t ... dex_en.htm

Under EU rules, you have the right to travel together with your core family members (non-EU spouse, children, dependent parents or dependent grandparents) to an EU country other than the one you are a national of. If you have moved to another EU country, they can also join you there.

Hello,

Jan 27 2020 applicant here (when documents were received)

After almost 2.5 years of no contact, I finally got some sort of news today- that they are processing my application- however, my birth certificate "is not the original".

I sent a copy of my birth cert as my original is quite old and has been ripped/ dog eared over the years so did not want it to be damaged further, however they now want that original copy. I've sent them a photo to show how old and dog eared it is, hoping they may accept that as proof. I really hope this does not delay things further!!