Waiting for spouse visa

Hi,

I'm in a bit of a pickle at the moment. I've (British citizen) been married to my wife for 2 years now (Chilean citizen) so we had to make an application for FLR (we couldn't do ILR because we didn't realise that she needed to pass the life in UK test and it was too late to get an appointment when we did the application. At some point in the last 2 years somebody changed the rules!!!) We made the application 8th September 2008. The money was taken out of my account the day after and they sent an acknowledgement letter.

The website says that 70% of applications (straight forward applications) are turned around in 20 working days. We decided against the 24hr service since 20 working days seemed little. Our application is straight forward. We had all the document needed, evidence, etc...

We are planning on spending Christmas with my wife's family. However, when I called the hotline, the phone operator said that I could only make enquires if 13 weeks had passed. We want to travel at the end of November, but the phone operator said the only way I could ensure that would be to withdraw her Visa application and then go through the 24hr route. This would mean losing the £395 and then paying a further £595. There was no option for just paying the difference of £200 which I would happily pay at this stage, just to resolve the situation.

Has anyone got any ideas??? We just want to be able to travel towards the end of November. I've heard some suggestions which I don't know whether they'd work.

1) Laissez Passer? no idea what this is about?
2) Obtain another Chilean passport (~£100) from the Chilean embassy saying that the other one is lost so that we can leave the country with that. Then once the visa is ready, this can be posted to Chile for return to the UK?

Are any of these remotely sensible? What would happen if she needed to travel back to her country for an emergency?


Just on a side note. I'm sorely vexed by the state of immigration in this country. How come visas are becoming so expensive??? If I wanted ILR for my wife in 24hrs it would be £950 (£750 if the normal process is used). How can they justify this? It's reprehensible! We applied before my wife would need to have a compulsory ID card, so where is my money going? Also, it's not like the £750/950 is optional, we have to fork out regardless if she wanted to travel or not. Last time I checked (2 years ago) I vaguely remember the fees being much lower. Of the order of £200-300. To have the money saved up to make such purchase am I required to keep an eye on the cost of a Visa from month to month just to make sure I can afford one??? Is there a place where British citizens can go to vent steam about the contemptible state of the immigration procedure for people?

"1) Laissez Passer? no idea what this is about?
2) Obtain another Chilean passport (~£100) from the Chilean embassy saying that the other one is lost so that we can leave the country with that. Then once the visa is ready, this can be posted to Chile for return to the UK?

Are any of these remotely sensible? What would happen if she needed to travel back to her country for an emergency?"

A Laissez-Passer is generally some form of emergency travel document may generally be regarded as just suitable for a single journey.

Reporting your passport as lost in the hope of using it later on when it's been endorsed with a visa is a seriously bad idea. The "lost" document number can go on any number of databases throughout the world, and then when you try and use it.....loads of grief.

If people need their passport returned in a genuine emergency, they can get it back from UKBA, but this usually means that the application is treated as withdrawn, so they have to apply again.

There have been many comments in the last few years over the steep rise in visa fees, but they get away with it because most people who have to pay them don't get a vote. The UKBA is a fledgling "agency", tasked with being self-financing, so you're paying for a burgeoning bureaucracy and the Great Asylum Scam which has been perpetrated on this country over the last 20 years. Just another stealth tax really.

In reality you have little choice but to keep pestering them, and if it comes to it, to withdraw the application and then apply for a visa to come back.

Mr Rusty wrote: In reality you have little choice but to keep pestering them, and if it comes to it, to withdraw the application and then apply for a visa to come back.

Might be a daft question but... If you withdraw an application and your current visa has already expired do you automatically get marked an an overstayer?

Thanks for your replies. Particularly for the guidance about saying that the passport is lost. It may seem like an obviously stupid thing to do, but when you are desperate, almost anything seems sensible!!!

I've called UKBA but I only get a telephone operator who basically refuses to give his opinion or advice on anything. I called up for my passport to be returned (after 8 weeks of them holding on to it) and I didn't like the tone of the guy on the phone. His first question was "why do you need your passport?" as if I was asking for something of a biggie just to have MY passport back. He then said it would invalidate my wife's application. He then came back and said he'd be able to send it. I badgered him a bit about my wife's documents and he said he couldn't say anything until a case worker has looked at them. (Why hasn't a case worker got around to looking at our application 8 weeks on??? Particularly when they say turn around in 70% of cases is 20 days. It's misleading and dishonest.)

So you reckon a Laissez Passer would be sufficient just for her to return to her country? And when her passport (with visa) arrive at our house here in England, I could then take it with me when I go to her country so that she can come back with me and enter the UK without problems? Any idea for what reasons they give a Laissez Passer? Or will they give it to me regardless of the reason if I ask and am willing to pay for it? Any ideas of the sort of price? Anything less than £200 would be great? What do you reckon?

You mention withdrawing the application. Like djb123 says, wouldn't this cause her to be marked as an overstayer? And hence cause some problems? If she withdrew, could she apply for the visa in her own country? If I remember correctly it was only about £180. Is it usually cheaper to get the spouse visa at a British embassy on foreign soil?

Sorry if I'm bleeting on and this is boring you all. I have no acquaintances with whom I can talk about immigration things, this it my only outlet for talk about this...

benjiboouk wrote:If she withdrew, could she apply for the visa in her own country? If I remember correctly it was only about £180. Is it usually cheaper to get the spouse visa at a British embassy on foreign soil?

A spouse visa is now £515 or 515,000 Chilean Pesos.

benjiboouk wrote:Any idea for what reasons they give a Laissez Passer?

The Chilean Embassy website suggests they will issue one of these when a Chilean nation has lost all their travel documentation and needs to travel home in an emergency. So I guess they'd want you to report the passport as lost to apply for one of these so no different than applying for a new passport.

benjiboouk wrote:Just on a side note. I'm sorely vexed by the state of immigration in this country. How come visas are becoming so expensive??? If I wanted ILR for my wife in 24hrs it would be £950 (£750 if the normal process is used). How can they justify this? It's reprehensible! We applied before my wife would need to have a compulsory ID card, so where is my money going? Also, it's not like the £750/950 is optional, we have to fork out regardless if she wanted to travel or not. Last time I checked (2 years ago) I vaguely remember the fees being much lower. Of the order of £200-300. To have the money saved up to make such purchase am I required to keep an eye on the cost of a Visa from month to month just to make sure I can afford one??? Is there a place where British citizens can go to vent steam about the contemptible state of the immigration procedure for people?

Sadly, if you were an EU citizen (but not a British citizen), your wife's application would be free.

"You mention withdrawing the application. Like djb123 says, wouldn't this cause her to be marked as an overstayer? And hence cause some problems? If she withdrew, could she apply for the visa in her own country?"

If the application was made "in time", i.e. before her previous visa expired, she has the right to remain under the same conditions. If the application is withdrawn to enable the applicant to travel, it would be perverse in the extreme to treat someone as an overstayer. In practice she would have 28 days in which to leave the UK, and could make an application in her own country. A covering letter mentioning the poor treatment you have received here might get more speedy attention if you happened to get an ECO with a sense of public duty (they do exist).

I might mention I had a similarly frustrating experience when my wife submitted her nationality application a few years ago. It seemed to disappear into a black hole and I couldn't find out what was happening to it, at a time when we knew of others who had applied later and had been granted within a few weeks. After about 5 months I wrote and asked for her passport back and threatened a complaint if the matter was not dealt with speedily. The passport was returned. About a month later they wrote and asked for her passport so they could process the application! (Obviously no-one had thought to verify and copy it to the file). It took another couple of months when almost by serendipity I managed to speak to somebody who listened to me for a couple of minutes, promised to go and look for the file, rang me back a day later and said, "The application looks fine, I'll deal with it myself", and a week later there was the letter in the post.
Sometimes dialling random numbers approximate to the one you have been given can get you through to a human being who is willing to look up where the file is, and put you through to the right place.
So, asking for the passport back doesn't in itself invalidate an application, the rules say that if someone leaves the country the application is treated as withdrawn.

The website says that 70% of applications (straight forward applications) are turned around in 20 working days. We decided against the 24hr service since 20 working days seemed little. Our application is straight forward. We had all the document needed, evidence, etc..

It is very misleading information and its been like that since the creation of Home office website and as far as I know it never changed.

How come visas are becoming so expensive???

Good question, I asked similar frusturating question to yours in other thread. I don't think we as immigrants CAN NOT question them (UKBA)and they are not liable to anyone. It is dispropotionate to the service they are offering which is total CRAP anyway.

If I wanted ILR for my wife in 24hrs it would be £950 (£750 if the normal process is used). How can they justify this? It's reprehensible!

I totally agree with you. I applied for FLR(M) Paying £395 for having 7 weeks gap for applying ILR without knowing that I am eligible to apply for ILR saving £395 but UKBA didn't make it clear in any of there website or gudiance notes therefore to be on safe side I applied for FLR again even though I could have applied for ILR directly. It is frusturating.

so where is my money going?

I want to know the answer for this question desperately. Although we pay for the service, do we get quicker or good service? NO. Its not just your wife application or mine, every single application takes time so what the hell do they do apart from processing our application for the money we pay.

Last time I checked (2 years ago) I vaguely remember the fees being much lower. Of the order of £200-300.

For your information it used to be FREE. how did they manage with out our money then??

I required to keep an eye on the cost of a Visa from month to month just to make sure I can afford one???

As an immigrant we all have to do this. No other option really.

Is there a place where British citizens can go to vent steam about the contemptible state of the immigration procedure for people?

Nope.

Its funny that UKBA try to impose ID on Brits for mere less than £100 still Brits are resisting to that money imagine if UKBA try and impose £750 for that like they impose on us....Brits will tell UKBA where to stick there ID's but us immigrants don't really have a voice therefore I won't be surprised if they rise from £750 to £1000 next year.. What a load of ****

eliasuk4u wrote:

Its funny that UKBA try to impose ID on Brits for mere less than £100 still Brits are resisting to that money imagine if UKBA try and impose £750 for that like they impose on us....Brits will tell UKBA where to stick there ID's but us immigrants don't really have a voice therefore I won't be surprised if they rise from £750 to £1000 next year.. What a load of ****

don't forget Brits marry immigrants, and as a Brit, I've had the pleasure of paying more than £4000 in visa fees, for settlement visas for the wife and kids, FLR, ILR and citizenship for them

don't forget Brits marry immigrants, and as a Brit, I've had the pleasure of paying more than £4000 in visa fees, for settlement visas for the wife and kids, FLR, ILR and citizenship for them

Not all the Brits marry immigrants. I am happy atleast Brits who married immigrants like yourself,benjiboouk (author of this theard), my wife (Brit) feels the heat of unfairness of the UKBA and the frusturation, stress and grief they cause to their loved ones yet failing to question (although some do here in this forum) or take any action against their countries immigration agency on behalf of their family members.

joe777 wrote:..as a Brit, I've had the pleasure of paying more than £4000 in visa fees, for settlement visas for the wife and kids, FLR, ILR and citizenship for them

£4000? It may have been cheaper to have taken a month off work, move to Ireland with your family and work one day a week in a pub, then move back to the UK and use EU law. No fees. Impractical, but no fees.

Mr Rusty> you say that leaving the country could invalidate the application? Would this also be the case if she left with an emergency travel document (such as Laissez Passer)?

djb123> Can I obtain a Laissez Passer when my passport is unavailable (eg with UKBC?)


I'd like to do something about this. I'm a Brit. In the past I've been passive with regards to injustices in this country but I'm sufficiently riled up at this moment in time that I want to contact my local Member of Parliament. In my family there is another immigration issue which is leading to a very cruel situation for a sibling. As a person who likes to plan their incomings and outgoings, it's frustrating when the goal posts change almost monthly (cost of visa). I'd like to know what my money is paying for? The visa is just a sticky piece of paper? To do the paper work took less than 20mins when we obtained the first visa. I just cannot understand what my money is paying for.

So I think I'll draft a letter to my local MP. If anyone has anything they think that I should add then please send me a message or add to this thread.

Thanks for all your comments guys!

I'd like to do something about this.

Phew! I am glad atleast one Brit is willing to take action.

it's frustrating when the goal posts change almost monthly

I totally agree with you, I think you are now thinking in an immigrant point of view. Just imagine how an immigrant feels about this whole situation.

I'd like to know what my money is paying for?

I am very..very... very eager to know that.

I just cannot understand what my money is paying for.

Most immigrant who pay this hefty fees don't know this either. (Probably would have ended up in some dodgy Icelandic banks)

So I think I'll draft a letter to my local MP. If anyone has anything they think that I should add then please send me a message or add to this thread.

Atlast some one is taking action. I fully support you on this. Few things I would like to add to this.
1. Why such a huge dispropotionate fees collected by UKBA?
2. Why is taking so long to process an application? UKBA can not claim staff shortage because it not dependent on Govt fund. Its funded by the fees paid by the applicants. (the pay to work in Home office as a case worker is not that high paid anyway), Then..
3. Where the money goes?
4. If there is a huge backlog why can't UKBA pay overtime for staff, Contract staff, or do night shifts... At end of the day we are paying them and there is no shortage for money in UKBA.
5.Why UKBA website is not updated frequently as it contains lot of misleading informations?
6. Why can't UKBA website have an application tracking system where one can put in his/her reference number and look at their application status themselfs, It will hugely reduce the customer service phone calls and the resources can be diverted in processing the applications.
I have so many things to add but this for time being. I will be very very surprised if you could manage to get answers for the above questions. But atleast UKBA will get alarmed that people are starting to ask questions.

One more thing to add.
Who UKBA is accountable to? Such as IPCC for police, FSA (Ombudsman) for Banks etc..)

benjiboouk wrote:Mr Rusty> you say that leaving the country could invalidate the application? Would this also be the case if she left with an emergency travel document (such as Laissez Passer)?

djb123> Can I obtain a Laissez Passer when my passport is unavailable (eg with UKBC?)


I'd like to do something about this. I'm a Brit. In the past I've been passive with regards to injustices in this country but I'm sufficiently riled up at this moment in time that I want to contact my local Member of Parliament. In my family there is another immigration issue which is leading to a very cruel situation for a sibling. As a person who likes to plan their incomings and outgoings, it's frustrating when the goal posts change almost monthly (cost of visa). I'd like to know what my money is paying for? The visa is just a sticky piece of paper? To do the paper work took less than 20mins when we obtained the first visa. I just cannot understand what my money is paying for.

So I think I'll draft a letter to my local MP. If anyone has anything they think that I should add then please send me a message or add to this thread.

Thanks for all your comments guys!

I've already emailed my MP more than 6 months ago, never got a reply

I asking my MP if we are or are not in Europe, if so why I had to pay and wait many months for visa's for my wife and kids, why my wife faces discrimination from the GMC, as my wife is married to a Brit she has to do IELTs and PLAB exams, but if she was married to non British European in the UK she wouldn't have to.

benifa wrote:

joe777 wrote:..as a Brit, I've had the pleasure of paying more than £4000 in visa fees, for settlement visas for the wife and kids, FLR, ILR and citizenship for them

£4000? It may have been cheaper to have taken a month off work, move to Ireland with your family and work one day a week in a pub, then move back to the UK and use EU law. No fees. Impractical, but no fees.

I thought you had to spend 6 months in another EU country rather than just a month to make this work. So not an option for most people.

djb123 wrote:I thought you had to spend 6 months in another EU country rather than just a month to make this work.

Actually, there is no stipulation of time. So long as EU treaty rights have been exercised.

benjiboouk wrote:djb123> Can I obtain a Laissez Passer when my passport is unavailable (eg with UKBC?)

I only checked the website, I have no further knowledge. Why don't you get your wife to phone up the Chilean Embassy?

Thanks Elias & co! Lots of interesting ideas!

Joe777, the example you give is absolutely scandalous and just typifies the sheer incompetence of this government. You should badger your MP more or try and arrange a meeting with him. You situation is terrible!

Actually, there is no stipulation of time. So long as EU treaty rights have been exercised.

Where can I find "a quick guide" to EU treaty rights etc??? I know absolutely nothing about this type of thing and I want to read up from an accessibly source. eg. How does one exercise "EU treaty rights" ?

benjiboouk wrote:Where can I find "a quick guide" to EU treaty rights etc??? I know absolutely nothing about this type of thing and I want to read up from an accessibly source. eg. How does one exercise "EU treaty rights" ?

Have a read of EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

In short, every citizen of the EU is entitled to move freely among the Member States. You can stay in any Member State for up to three months without restriction. If you want to stay longer than three months, you have to either get a job, open a business, become a student or be financially self-sufficient. Your family members, regardless of their own nationality, have equal rights as you, while in your company in the host Member State.

In the end I decided to just withdraw the application. I called up and said that I'd like to withdraw the application urgenty for family emergency. It was explained to me that we'd lose the fee etc... I said that I was okay with this. The very next day, my wife's passport arrived with a "Residence Permit" for 2 more years stay. If I understand this correctly this is the thing we want???

So at about 10am on Tuesday they said "a case worker hasn't even looked at it yet" and "you will lose your fee". Wednesday morning her passport arrives with a Residence Permit.

It just seems like such a lottery.

benjiboouk: Congratulations on getting the residence permit! Annoying that it took so long and they couldn't tell you what was happening along the way, but sadly that's the way they operate.

I read through your thread and noticed the comments about application fees and waiting times. What do the fees cover? Wish I knew! I fully agree that the fees seem both arbitrary and extortionate. It would be nice if there were something we could do about it, but the pessimist in me thinks that ship has sailed...

Have you read about the new 'path to citizenship' that is scheduled to start in late 2009? Look here and do some reading. Not only does it look like fees will only continue to increase in the future, they also want applicants to contribute to a 'fund' in the future (see pages 35-36 of this PDF.) They're calling the process 'earned citizenship' and they're planning to make a lot of money out of it. (Nevermind all the other controversial plans in this proposal. Search the forum - there are tons of threads about the proposed changes.)

I hope the fact that your wife got her visa doesn't mean you'll stop being interested in immigration issues. The more I have learned on my way to becoming a naturalised Brit, the more I want to be involved.

Meanwhile, hurry and get your wife to take the Life in the UK Test so she can get ILR and naturalise if she wants...!

Best,
Whirly

Whirly thanks for your reply. Since I started this thread a lot has changed for me. My wife has found her time in the UK particularly challenging, probably like everyone else who comes to the UK.

Anyway, we made a decision a few weeks back to move to Chile (for ever effectively). In the end her residence permit application was probably pointless since we'll have to start all over again when we want to come back and visit in a few years time. I will need to keep abreast of changes in the immigration system certainly. I'm grateful for websites like this which have helped me learn a lot.

To be honest, I'm very disillusioned with the UK right now. I'm sure some people are in infinitely more frustrating and challenging situations than me and I just feel ashamed that the UK treats people like this. I feel a sense of arrogance from our political leadership. They just don't care. It's difficult to motivate people to be bothered when it's not their loved ones having the immigration difficulties. There must be some way to raise awareness...

benjiboouk wrote:Whirly thanks for your reply. Since I started this thread a lot has changed for me. My wife has found her time in the UK particularly challenging, probably like everyone else who comes to the UK.

Anyway, we made a decision a few weeks back to move to Chile (for ever effectively). In the end her residence permit application was probably pointless since we'll have to start all over again when we want to come back and visit in a few years time. I will need to keep abreast of changes in the immigration system certainly. I'm grateful for websites like this which have helped me learn a lot.

To be honest, I'm very disillusioned with the UK right now. I'm sure some people are in infinitely more frustrating and challenging situations than me and I just feel ashamed that the UK treats people like this. I feel a sense of arrogance from our political leadership. They just don't care. It's difficult to motivate people to be bothered when it's not their loved ones having the immigration difficulties. There must be some way to raise awareness...

Hi again,

Sorry to hear about your wife's troubles here. I know it's not easy to move half way across the world to a different culture - away from family, different language, etc. It was a breeze for me to come to the UK from California, but my 4 years in Japan certainly had their ups and downs. I'm sure many of us can sympathise with what you're both going through.

Does it make any sense for her to get her ILR before you move back to Chile? She would lose it if she left the UK for 2+ years, but she could maintain it if you visited your family here on occasion, right? At least it would give you more options for the future, especially considering the changes that are in the works. Or not. I'm sure you two have discussed all the possibilities.

I know what you mean about feeling disillusioned. I think there are a lot of things wrong with immigration in the UK, largely based on misperceptions as reflected in fine publications like the Daily Mail. I don't think most people really appreciate the problems until they face them personally. But there are a few things that seem to work well. Despite your abysmal experience, similar applications are dealt with faster than in, say, the USA or Ireland... The best we can all do is keep trying to improve the system and make our voices be heard.

Best of luck in Chile. Hope your experience getting visas there is better than your wife's here!