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Marrying on a visitor's visa

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Fanclub
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Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:50 am

Hi
I'm new to this forum an wondering if anyone can help.
My friend has given notice to marry at a UK registrars.
He has just met this woman and they wanted to get married after one week. She is in the UK from Botswana on a standard visitor's visa. The marriage is going ahead despite the visitor's visa rules do not allow marriage.
How is this possible and what trouble can they get into.
She plans to return to Botswana and apply for a spouse visa.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by alterhase58 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:16 am

One post about this is quite sufficient...

For anyone to comment:
What are all the details?
Friends status, bride status, exact desciption.
Has the register office informed the Home Office? Which is normal.
Has the Home Office sanctioned this?
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:53 am

The home office was notified and they said they would not investigate it as a sham marriage. They did say it could go ahead with the marriage visa which they do not have.
The registrar is still going ahead with the marriage.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:02 am

I am sorry but I am new to this forum and haven't quite managed to plough thru any previous posts similar to my friends situation.
As I said they applied to marry a week after meeting in a bar.
Can the home office sanction such a marriage on a visitor's visa.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Ticktack » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:26 am

Fanclub wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:02 am
I am sorry but I am new to this forum and haven't quite managed to plough thru any previous posts similar to my friends situation.
As I said they applied to marry a week after meeting in a bar.
Can the home office sanction such a marriage on a visitor's visa.
A few marriages does slip thru the cracks. If this marriage happens to be one of them, the worst isn't over yet.

If and when she applies for a spouse visa, there's a question about where and when did you first meet. These are part of the questions that the ECO would take into account.
Met on Monday, married by Friday. Spouse visa applied for in 2 weeks from the day.

It probably wouldn't require a genius to give it an easy fail. It would be an interesting conversation at the weekly office catch-up!
My imaginations getting the best of me here. :lol:
No sin in failing, you just have to try and try again!

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:29 am

Thanks ticktac
I am going to registrar to witness the marriage in an hour's time.
I told him I wasn't happy doing it but he has fallen out with all his family.
As I said he received a letter back from home office saying they wouldn't investigate it as a sham but the letter informed him that it could go ahead after the 28 days after presenting marriage visa to registrar.
She didn't have a marriage visa and I'm wondering if that can be counterfeited. Or someone at registrar isn't reading the letter properly.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Casa » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:34 pm

Even if the marriage has taken place this morning, she won't be able to convert her visitor visa to a spouse settlement visa from within the UK. She will have to return to her home country and submit the application there.

As you've already been advised, the Case Worker will carry out stringent checks on the validity of the marriage and whether this is a genuine relationship.
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Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by AmazonianX » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:07 am

Fanclub wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:29 am
Thanks ticktac
I am going to registrar to witness the marriage in an hour's time.
I told him I wasn't happy doing it but he has fallen out with all his family.
As I said he received a letter back from home office saying they wouldn't investigate it as a sham but the letter informed him that it could go ahead after the 28 days after presenting marriage visa to registrar.
She didn't have a marriage visa and I'm wondering if that can be counterfeited. Or someone at registrar isn't reading the letter properly.
Do you have an update on the marriage at the registrars and afterwards?

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:35 am

Well they got married with my wife and myself as witnesses.
He had arranged (at short notice)a small reception at the local pub where only two of his large family were in attendance.
The landlady made it look quite nice with cake and balloons and the pub regulars made it a nice day .
I don't know how it's got the go ahead but there you have it.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by ALKB » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:03 am

Fanclub wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:29 am
Thanks ticktac
I am going to registrar to witness the marriage in an hour's time.
I told him I wasn't happy doing it but he has fallen out with all his family.
As I said he received a letter back from home office saying they wouldn't investigate it as a sham but the letter informed him that it could go ahead after the 28 days after presenting marriage visa to registrar.
She didn't have a marriage visa and I'm wondering if that can be counterfeited. Or someone at registrar isn't reading the letter properly.
While it´s not against the law to get married on a visitor visa, it is against the visa rules.

So, if somebody manages to get married on a visitor visa, then leaves the UK and never plans to return, fine. Well, not fine but probably no consequences.

If they want to apply for a spouse visa afterwards, they are likely to encounter problems. There have been reports on this forum about refused spouse visa because of marrying on a visitor visa.

Just because the Home Office says they won´t investigate regarding sham marriage, does not mean that this is fine when it comes to immigration applications. Two different kettle of fish.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:31 am

It's very interesting that breaking visa rules is not unlawful. Does it appear that a registrar would allow them to marry without marriage visa if they told them that the woman would not return to UK.
Their plan is now ,she returns to Botswana to apply for spouse visa (I think) They have not had any advice from lawyers etc. Only what I have found out online

I don't know what questions she will encounter when applying for spouse visa,does she just produce the marriage certificate or will she have to corroborate this with a copy of marriage visa (she doesn't have)
They seem to think spouse visa checks aren't as rigorous as they should be.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Casa » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:49 pm

Fanclub wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:31 am
It's very interesting that breaking visa rules is not unlawful. Does it appear that a registrar would allow them to marry without marriage visa if they told them that the woman would not return to UK.
Their plan is now ,she returns to Botswana to apply for spouse visa (I think) They have not had any advice from lawyers etc. Only what I have found out online

I don't know what questions she will encounter when applying for spouse visa,does she just produce the marriage certificate or will she have to corroborate this with a copy of marriage visa (she doesn't have)
They seem to think spouse visa checks aren't as rigorous as they should be.
Not rigorous? Have they read through the criteria & evidence required for a Spouse visa? Hopefully your friend also has deep pockets. :idea:

https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/provide-information
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by ALKB » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:56 pm

Fanclub wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:31 am
It's very interesting that breaking visa rules is not unlawful. Does it appear that a registrar would allow them to marry without marriage visa if they told them that the woman would not return to UK.
Their plan is now ,she returns to Botswana to apply for spouse visa (I think) They have not had any advice from lawyers etc. Only what I have found out online

I don't know what questions she will encounter when applying for spouse visa,does she just produce the marriage certificate or will she have to corroborate this with a copy of marriage visa (she doesn't have)
They seem to think spouse visa checks aren't as rigorous as they should be.
It´s just two different sets of laws or rather conditions.

People can get married. Being allowed to get married is not some sort of spouse visa pre-approval. Neither a registrar nor the Home Office are immigration advisors. The registrar looks at the documents, checks whether both parties are of age and free to marry, refers non-UK couples to HO, anything else is not their responsibility. The Home Office checks for previous attempts to settle in the UK or similar, it´s not their responsibility to advise a couple of all sorts of potential consequences should they hypothetically at some point in the future lodge an application for any number of leave to remain. The couple can live elsewhere and it´s all fine. The couple can also go about things without proper research and land themselves in hot water.

When she applies for the spouse visa, her UK visa history will be looked at. It will be quite clear that she was never issued a visa that allows marriage in the UK, bringing to attention her breach of visa conditions. Apart from that, they will also have to show when their relationship started and how it progressed - with proof such as letters to each other, emails, chat history, itimised call logs, gifts sent, etc. If this evidence is lacking for lack of relationship history, this will certainly invite close scrutiny.

I see complications and possibly lots of money down the drain in their future.

But that´s their decisions and their life.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:16 pm

Thanks everyone for the advice
My friend is not well off. He has already had to go for a bank loan.
I take it he is giving her money before she goes back to Botswana to apply for visa. I am just beginning to find out the cost for this visa, especially the non refundable part if visa is rejected.
I don't even know if they have the organization or skills to cope with the paperwork etc.without a lawyer .They wouldn't even consult a lawyer for advice before marrying.
Anyway thanks again for advice ,I was tearing my hair out trying to find out how the marriage could go ahead and it appears registrar or even home office just don't give much advice or any help until it all goes (rather expensively) t##ts up.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by ALKB » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:36 pm

Fanclub wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:16 pm
Thanks everyone for the advice
My friend is not well off. He has already had to go for a bank loan.
I take it he is giving her money before she goes back to Botswana to apply for visa. I am just beginning to find out the cost for this visa, especially the non refundable part if visa is rejected.
I don't even know if they have the organization or skills to cope with the paperwork etc.without a lawyer .They wouldn't even consult a lawyer for advice before marrying.
Anyway thanks again for advice ,I was tearing my hair out trying to find out how the marriage could go ahead and it appears registrar or even home office just don't give much advice or any help until it all goes (rather expensively) t##ts up.
Does he earn the minimum requirement of 18600 pounds per year or more?

A registrar is not qualified to give immigration advice. Home Office processes application, it´s up to the applicant to ensure they meet requirements and that documentary evidence is complete and truthful.

Maybe a visit to the Citizen´s Advice Bureau would be a good idea.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Ticktack » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:53 pm

Fanclub wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:16 pm
Thanks everyone for the advice
My friend is not well off. He has already had to go for a bank loan.
I take it he is giving her money before she goes back to Botswana to apply for visa. I am just beginning to find out the cost for this visa, especially the non refundable part if visa is rejected.
I don't even know if they have the organization or skills to cope with the paperwork etc.without a lawyer .They wouldn't even consult a lawyer for advice before marrying.
Anyway thanks again for advice ,I was tearing my hair out trying to find out how the marriage could go ahead and it appears registrar or even home office just don't give much advice or any help until it all goes (rather expensively) t##ts up.
Moving to the UK is an expensive venture, with the panic attacks and constant waiting games. That's for those that get it right first time.

For those that think they can circumvent the system, it's a dark abyss.

Always nice to do a bit of research before making some ventures, just so that you get it right.

She going back to Botswana is a start (step in the right direction) in correcting the error made. Issues would still arise (almost certainly), but eventually they would cross the hurdle with persistence.

If they haven't married yet, no harm done. If they have ………. well! You just have to face the issues head on. With a bit of professional advice if I might add.
No sin in failing, you just have to try and try again!

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by THO » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:29 pm

The cost of a visitor visa is (if I recall correctly) something like £180. The cost of a fiance visa is £1500.

However, it sounds to me like your friends will not meet any of the financial criteria, as you said he does not have a lot. £18,600 per year income, and then how about accommodation, is it suitable?

When the HO wants evidence of a long and real relationship, and find that it is in actual fact just a few weeks old, they will almost certainly turn them down for a spouse visa. Your friends will throw K's good money after bad, money it sounds like he can't afford because if he has had to go to the bank for a loan already, there is nothing in the pot.

The fact she is from a very poor country like Botswana will also (rightly or wrongly) have them questioning what her / their motivations are. It's almost impossible to fall in love enough to want to spend the rest of your life with someone in one week, the HO will smell a rat.

What is his nationality of birth? The HO might well say that there is nothing stopping him from joining her in Botswana.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:29 pm

Hi everyone.

I have never discussed his finances with him.
I think he only has a basic state pension. He has a few benefits including some PIP. I do not have the figures to calculate if he can meet the adequate maintenance criteria ,which to me looks similar to the £18600 figure. I will no doubt have to discuss this with him.

My friend has always been a bit of a rebel and never thought the rules apply to him. I think in the past he has always been luck and I'm hoping his luck isn't going to desert him on this occasion.

I have felt powerless trying to help him in this.
I think he really thought if he married this woman before her visa ran out she could stay for ever. He realized this wasn't the case but would not cancel his 'big day' yesterday.

It's been a whirlwind but I do think he is genuinely in love.
Never a dull moment tho. :lol:

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by THO » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:36 pm

It's going to stop being a whirlwind and start being a sh1t storm. They will be apart for many months, unless he goes there to stay.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:53 pm

Aye it's madness
I only joined this forum after they came back from getting avice on Thursday.
I was confident the advice would be ,,,to not go ahead with this.
I met them later and when they said it was no problem I knew then that the 'advice ' to go ahead was from a moron' ,,professional or otherwise.

This thread sadly, only started bearing fruit on the morning of the wedding.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by THO » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:01 pm

What is his nationality, and country of origin?

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:13 pm

Hi THO
My friend is British,well Scottish. :lol:

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by AmazonianX » Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:08 pm

I hope the rebel in him got a stomach like that of a dromedary because with HO and immigration luck hardly cuts it.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by Fanclub » Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:16 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: It's not funny tho.
AmazonianX wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:08 pm
I hope the rebel in him got a stomach like that of a dromedary because with HO and immigration luck hardly cuts it.

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Re: Marrying on a visitor's visa

Post by secret.simon » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:17 pm

Fanclub wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:29 pm
I think he only has a basic state pension.
Is there a particularly large difference in age between your friend and his new spouse? That, along with the whirlwind romance, may cause even more warning bells to ring out at the time of the spousal visa.
Fanclub wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:29 pm
My friend has always been a bit of a rebel and never thought the rules apply to him.
Your friend is Boris, isn't it?
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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