Self employment and citizenship application

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:22 pm

Hi all, my first post here. Until now I have checked so many queries about citizenship applications by other people and I am amazed, really, by the amount of info one can find here. So thanks to all.
Now, my post. I hope there is someone out there who can help me out.

I am about to submit my application for British citizenship. I am an EU national, in the UK since 2013, settle status granted in 2020. I work as self employed since 2016. From then on, my business slowly picked up quite well. From nothing to an income well over the primary threshold of earnings in 19/20 tax year. In 2020, when COVID kicked in, my business stopped almost a 100% since I was working for the tourism sector.
Since then, it never recovered to levels before COVID. 20/21; 21/22 and 22/23 tax years I have earned less than the primary threshold, basicaly between small profits and lower profits threshold and paid tax accordingly, basically £0 apart from the Class 2 contributions.

My concerns regarding my application is if HO will consider my self employment as genuine and effective, for what I understood, a requirement to grant citizenship (I may be wrong on this?)
Maybe in terms of income it is not anymore, at least at this point, but I think it is in terms of consistency and work done.
From preCovid times, I lost my main client, kept a few smaller ones, made a few more since then. There are months I can work for 5 days, some others for more.
As I said, I think my self employment is continuous and consistent although in a small scale at this point. Due to my circumstances (savings, for instance) I can live with what I am earning and without asking for help or benefits.
But what I think it does not matter at this point, obviously.
So, my question is ‘are my current employment circunstantes a source of concern regarding the success of my application?”

Many thanks in advance.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:32 pm

I think I post this in the wrong forum. I am uploading it where I think it belongs: British Citizenship

sorry

links · Post by **meself2** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:44 pm

jorg88 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:22 pm
for what I understood, a requirement to grant citizenship (I may be wrong on this?)

You are incorrect indeed.
post2088734.html#p2088734

CR001 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:15 pm
1. Employment is NOT a requirement for citizenship.

Also keep in mind you would have to prove your English proficiency for naturalization.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:49 pm

Many thanks for your reply, I truly appreciate it. My guess about all this matter being a source of concern is that one of the required documents I have to upload with my application is my last self assesment form.

What is the reason behind that requirement then?

Post by **CR001** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:57 pm

It's so that ukvi can check your records with hmrc and check yout tax affairs are in order.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 3:43 pm

I see. Thanks.
The amount of info I've dealing with these days has been overwhelming and I think at some point I had a few things wrong, for instance self employment being a requirement for naturalisation.
Not sure, but maybe this confusion had to be with recent legislation changes and me reading websites/forums that were giving advise for older regulations. I dont know... it is good to know though, employment is not to be taken into account.

Now, another issue... As proof of residence, and being self-employed through all the qualiying period, I dont have many letters from HMRC, P60's (none, actually) or whatever official document that can consistently prove my residence here all these 5 years. I have a few and Ill send them with my application, mainly from pre-covid years.
In the end, bank statements are, I think, the best proof of my residence in the UK. I will be sending those and also copies of my invoices to clients where inputs on my bank account can be linked to activity of any kind in the uk.
Anybody out there has taken this same route to prove residency? Was HO happy with it?
Thanks

Post by **alterhase58** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:41 pm

Bank statements are not accepted as proof.
As self employed you can submit your tax sel assessment. That should be sufficient. They won’t be checking your business transactions.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:43 am

Thanks for your reply. Thats good to know.

Another question: During these 5 years of qualifying period, an old passport of mine went out of date. I had to get a new one and thats obviously the one I have used to fill my naturalisation application. My settle status profile was updated with it too. Now, should I include my old passport in my naturalisation application? its not stamped with in and outs being myslef a EU national.

by the way... when uploading passport(s), all pages must be scanned? or just the one with my info on it? I cant find a conclusive guidance on this. Again thanks

Post by **alterhase58** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:55 am

jorg88 wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:43 am
Thanks for your reply. Thats good to know.

Another question: During these 5 years of qualifying period, an old passport of mine went out of date. I had to get a new one and thats obviously the one I have used to fill my naturalisation application. My settle status profile was updated with it too. Now, should I include my old passport in my naturalisation application? its not stamped with in and outs being myslef a EU national. Just the current passport is sufficient as you use other documents to prove residency. As you say EU passport don't normally get stamped.

by the way... when uploading passport(s), all pages must be scanned? or just the one with my info on it? I cant find a conclusive guidance on this. Again thanks I think just the personal details page(s) would be sufficient, but UKVI could always ask to see the other pages so scanning all could save delay if they do ask.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:06 am

Many thanks once again.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 2:22 pm

As I Eu national applying for Naturalisation (settle status granted in 2020) I must send evidences of residence of these last 5 years. I was advised here that self assesments are enough proof of that. Id like to go a bit over the top just in case and I was wondering... since I dont have much evidence like letters from Home Office or HMRC, or whatever letter there could be to prove my residence, would emails from those official bodies throughout the qualifying period count as support evidence to the self assesments Ill be sending?
Thanks

links · Post by **meself2** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 2:23 pm

Please keep your posts in one topic, as long as they're related to the same query, your naturalization.

Post by **Ticktack** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 2:28 pm

jorg88 wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 29, 2023 2:22 pm
As I Eu national applying for Naturalisation (settle status granted in 2020) I must send evidences of residence of these last 5 years. I was advised here that self assesments are enough proof of that. Id like to go a bit over the top just in case and I was wondering... since I dont have much evidence like letters from Home Office or HMRC, or whatever letter there could be to prove my residence, would emails from those official bodies throughout the qualifying period count as support evidence to the self assesments Ill be sending? Emails could have been from anywhere in the world. It doesn't mean that you're resident in that country. That's the same reason why you can't use bank accounts either.
Thanks

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:09 pm

Sure, many thanks. It does make sense, really.

However, (and this is just a question out of curiousity maybe related to this): I was told in this thread Self Assessments can work as proof of residence for self employed people like me with not many pieces of evidence of residence.

But as the emails could have been from anywhere, it could be that the income declared on the SA was earned in just (lets say) 90 days in the country, being the rest of the year away. How would HO be able to know if my SA shows a continuous residence in the UK?
Again, this is a question out of curiosity. I trust what alterhase58 told me a few messages back.

Now, please allow me new questions as I double check my application:
I have 475 absences within the 5 years, which obviously go over the required 450. Apparently, if the absences over the limit are less than 30 days, that excess will be disregarded. Am I right?

However, further down in the application says:

"Do you meet these residence requirements?" Although the excess falls within the normally disregard ones, I should answer NO?

Then I'd need to explain why I dont meet the requirements even though I am to expect discretion? Again thanks

Post by **Ticktack** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:12 am

jorg88 wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:09 pm
Sure, many thanks. It does make sense, really.

However, (and this is just a question out of curiousity maybe related to this): I was told in this thread Self Assessments can work as proof of residence for self employed people like me with not many pieces of evidence of residence.

But as the emails could have been from anywhere, it could be that the income declared on the SA was earned in just (lets say) 90 days in the country, being the rest of the year away. How would HO be able to know if my SA shows a continuous residence in the UK?
They just have to make do with the evidences they have, even if it isn't airtight. Some they can confirm on their system, they just need something credible to compare with. If they need more docs, they would ask for it. Along the lines of the below.

A residential mortgage statement or tenancy agreement, and accompanying evidence of the mortgage or rent being paid (e.g. confirmation from the lender or landlord), will be treated as evidence of residence for the period covered by the statement or agreement.
Again, this is a question out of curiosity. I trust what alterhase58 told me a few messages back.

Now, please allow me new questions as I double check my application:
I have 475 absences within the 5 years, which obviously go over the required 450. Apparently, if the absences over the limit are less than 30 days, that excess will be disregarded. Am I right? Correct, it would be disregarded.

However, further down in the application says:

"Do you meet these residence requirements?" Although the excess falls within the normally disregard ones, I should answer NO? Yes say No, as you don't meet the 450 standard, but you meet the flexibility that comes with it

Then I'd need to explain why I dont meet the requirements even though I am to expect discretion? Again thanks

Even if you explain, it would have no negative effects on your application. The HO knows their own rules.

Post by **alterhase58** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:32 am

We can't really say how caseworkers would know that what you put into your application is correct, however, you do sign/tick the box that everything is correct to the best of your knowledge, and there may be consequences if not, also your referees could be "spoken to".
They have extensive access to other government departments, and in the end, on the balance of the facts and probabilities they make their decision. You won't be penalised if you are out by a few days, made a small mistake here and there, etc. This is my opinion.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:51 am

Many thanks once again to both of you. I hope they dont get too picky with this because if they need more documents, I am not too sure what I could show. Last 3 years I have been living at a friend's flat, part with him, part home keeping while he is away for a year... but no tenancy agreement, no council tax, let alone mortgage... Then my selfemployed condition and the lack of documents explained above... God knows I comply with residence requirements, but it does not count if God knows or not, I guess

My referees also know that so if they take that route, Ill be fine.

Thanks once again. Ill get back here for sure, if you dont mind, as my application proccess moves forward. Nearly there, actually

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:55 am

By the way, when you say "they have extensive access to other government departments" it came to my mind the records Home office holds about my in and outs of the country. I wrote/ask them about them months ago and they sent it to me. Not sure the name of that service. I could check my email.
Thats actually how I filled my trips abroad part...
Wouldn't be those records enough evidence?

Post by **alterhase58** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:06 pm

Certainly a good indication, I would guess.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:26 pm

Thanks. Since they'd have access to it, there is no need to send that as evidence, I assume...

Post by **alterhase58** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:49 pm

You are still required to input your absences. It’s the applicant’s responsibility to supply all information.

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 1:35 pm

Yes, sure, thanks. Its done actually.

Another thing, hope you dont mind. There should be not many more questions left regarding the application. I was not aware trinity college takes a few days to send the final result of my english exam. Provisional result was AA. I know provisional means provisional, but I wonder if I can use the reference Ive been sent with these provisional results just in order to fill the application? Will it be same reference thatn the final results? Once I get the certificate (Ill wait for my biometrics appointment until I have it) I can upload it as evidence. For personal reasons, I must send the application by today.

Post by **alterhase58** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:02 pm

Sorry I don't know - do you need to enter the ref number into a fixed field? See if it works. Of course if you get your certificate before your biometrics date you can still upload, if necessary with a note stating that the number you used was provisional ...

jorg88 · Post by **jorg88** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:03 pm

No worries, thanks for your reply. Ill do that. Ill make sure I get the certificate before booking the biometrics appointment.
Which by the way, just came to my mind... Once one gets the biometrics done at the appointment, thats the moment when no more documents/evidences can be uploaded in support of one's application?
After that, only what the home office case worker may potentially ask about can be sent?

Thanks

Post by **alterhase58** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 5:26 pm

jorg88 wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:03 pm
No worries, thanks for your reply. Ill do that. Ill make sure I get the certificate before booking the biometrics appointment.
Which by the way, just came to my mind... Once one gets the biometrics done at the appointment, thats the moment when no more documents/evidences can be uploaded in support of one's application? At the bio meeting UKVCAS will transfer the loaded documents to UKVI, upload after that is then closed. Though I believe they will upload last minute documents at the meeting before they finally release to UKVI.
After that, only what the home office case worker may potentially ask about can be sent? Caseworkers can and sometimes do ask for additional documents, or originals of documents loaded. But quite rare. Applicants generally do their homework.

Thanks

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