Permanent Residence Qualifying Period For EEA National

Quick question for anyone who can help:

My husband is a EEA National & has been residing in the UK since October 2004 as follows:

October 2004 - July 2005 (Full time study&self-sufficient)
July 2005 - September 2006 (self-sufficient but only foreign bank statements as proof)
September 2006 - present (employed)

Am I right to think that he would only qualify for PR in September 2011 based on the fact that for the first 2 years he may not be considered as exercising treaty rights (more so as he only has foreign bank statements to prove his self-sufficiency)?

Thanks in advance

See also Qualified person and Chapter 21 Annex 2 - "Qualified Person" checklist.

vinny wrote:See also Qualified person and Chapter 21 Annex 2 - "Qualified Person" checklist.

A very 'Vinnyesque' response... Can anyone expatiate on this with respect to my particular situation?

Much appreciated.

I think what it means is that the clock started ticking in October 2004. Before Sep 2006 he was self-sufficient and/or a student. The relevant point from the Annex is

[quote="Chapter 21 Annex 2 - "Qualified Person" checklist"]21.2.4 Self-sufficent person
Does the applicant have evidence that the EEA national has sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system during his/her period of residence in the UK?[/quote]

86ti, I agree. I think that Plum70 is failing to appreciate that there are quite a number of ways to be exercising EU Treaty Rights, and also there is no problem switching from one method to another.

Plum70, do appreciate that your husband will get PR status automatically on the 5th anniversary of him starting to exercising EU Treaty Rights in the UK .... sometime in October 2009. He is not required to complete form EEA3 to get PR status, but if he does the confirmation of PR status that he receives it merely that ... confirmation of the PR status already held.

The relevance of this? He intends to apply for Naturalisation as British when he has had PR status for on year?

John wrote:I think that Plum70 is failing to appreciate that there are quite a number of ways to be exercising EU Treaty Rights, and also there is no problem switching from one method to another.

Sorry for adding a question of my own. What I was wondering is if the EEA national can be considered "self-sufficient" if he/she stops to work, for instance, but the non-EEA spouse/partner has sufficient income to support the couple/family.

86ti, if you look at the second link kindly provided by Vinny above you will see that there are a number of possibilities. For example someone does not cease to be a "qualified person" just because they have ceased work, because of illness, or because they are between jobs.

So can you explain more? Has the person stopped work totally? Or are they currently not working because of illness, or have they left one job and are seeking another?

John wrote:86ti, if you look at the second link kindly provided by Vinny above you will see that there are a number of possibilities. For example someone does not cease to be a "qualified person" just because they have ceased work, because of illness, or because they are between jobs.

So can you explain more? Has the person stopped work totally? Or are they currently not working because of illness, or have they left one job and are seeking another?

I understand that not being in a job temporarily is ok. But obviously there are time limits on how long you can be a qualified person as a job seeker and the SI sound as if you have to become involuntarily unemployed except in the case where you start a related vocational training (referring to Vinny's first link). What I actually wanted to know about is if the person intends to stop working totally or the person cannot work anymore due to a severe illness.

Obviously time limits? There is a lot more detail in the 2006 regulations .... click here ..... and then read reg. 5 in particular.

As you will see a lot of detail in there, and it begs the question, for example, did you work at least two years in the UK before stopping working? If so, as I read it, there is no time limit!

Self-sufficiency? Yes there as a fallback position, but as you will see above, there are other possibilities.

John wrote:86ti, I agree. I think that Plum70 is failing to appreciate that there are quite a number of ways to be exercising EU Treaty Rights, and also there is no problem switching from one method to another.

Plum70, do appreciate that your husband will get PR status automatically on the 5th anniversary of him starting to exercising EU Treaty Rights in the UK .... sometime in October 2009. He is not required to complete form EEA3 to get PR status, but if he does the confirmation of PR status that he receives it merely that ... confirmation of the PR status already held.

The relevance of this? He intends to apply for Naturalisation as British when he has had PR status for on year?

Thanks for yor input John (and 86ti).
Yes my husband plans to apply for naturalisation after holding PR for one year. Just concerned about the period from July 2005 - September 2006. He can get a letter of confirmation from his Uncle (who he lived with from Oct. 2004 - May 2007) and maybe some foreign credit card statements. But would this prove sufficient is the question?

Plum70, for the period July 2005 - September 2006, didn't he have a UK bank account? If not, how did he get Pounds Sterling to live on in the UK?

By the way, what is his nationality?

John wrote:Plum70, for the period July 2005 - September 2006, didn't he have a UK bank account? If not, how did he get Pounds Sterling to live on in the UK?

By the way, what is his nationality?

No UK bank account for that period. He used travellers' cheques and his foreign credit card. He is Swiss-French

From the 2006 regulations :-

"self-sufficient person" means a person who has—

(i) sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom during his period of residence; and

(ii) comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom;

-: so if indeed that was his category, did he indeed have "comprehensive sickness insurance cover"?

John wrote:From the 2006 regulations :-

"self-sufficient person" means a person who has—

(i) sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom during his period of residence; and

(ii) comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom;

-: so if indeed that was his category, did he indeed have "comprehensive sickness insurance cover"?

No he did not. I guess this counts against him then?

Plum70 wrote:

My husband is a EEA National & has been residing in the UK since October 2004 as follows:

October 2004 - July 2005 (Full time study&self-sufficient)
July 2005 - September 2006 (self-sufficient but only foreign bank statements as proof)
September 2006 - present (employed)

Am I right to think that he would only qualify for PR in September 2011 based on the fact that for the first 2 years he may not be considered as exercising treaty rights (more so as he only has foreign bank statements to prove his self-sufficiency)?

Your husband will get permanent residency in October 2009. It does not matter that the bank statements (July 2005 - September 2006 are foreign), what matters is that he was self-sufficient (not claiming public funds)

John wrote:

did he indeed have "comprehensive sickness insurance cover"?

The term comprehensive sickness insurance cover is defined on the following Home Office website: http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/britis ... documents/

Comprehensive sickness insurance

Insurance that will pay for any medical treatment required in the United Kingdom by someone who is not entitled to treatment from the National Health Service. You may have to show you have this insurance in order to be allowed to live in the United Kingdom.

So if your husband is covered by the NHS he has "comprehensive sickness insurance cover". The term does not mean that he has to have private medical insurance as the NHS provides "comprehensive sickness insurance cover"

"The National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 1989" (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19890306_en_1.htm) explains who is entitled to NHS treatment:

Overseas visitors exempt from charges
4. No charge shall be made in respect of any services forming part of the health service provided for an overseas visitor, being a person, or the spouse or child of a person-
(a) who is shown to the satisfaction of the Authority to be present in the United Kingdom or in a designated area of the Continental Shelf or, if his employer has his principal place of business in the United Kingdom, in or over any area of the Continental Shelf, or on a stationary structure within the territorial waters of the United Kingdom, for the purpose of-
(i) engaging in employment as an employed or self-employed person; or
(ii) working as a volunteer with a voluntary organisation that is providing a service similar to a relevant service as defined in sections 64 and 65 of the Health Services and Public Health Act 1968[12], or service to which Article 71 of the Health and Personal Social Services (Northern Ireland) Order 1972[13] applies; or
(iii) pursuing a course of study where the period of study during the first year of the course is broken by a period or periods of industrial or analogous experience forming an integral part of the course amounting in aggregate to not less than 12 weeks; or
(iv) taking up permanent residence in the United Kingdom; or
(b) who has resided in the United Kingdom for the period of not less than one year immediately preceding the time when the services are provided, whether or not immediately prior to the completion of one year's residence as aforesaid, charges under these Regulations may have been made in respect of services provided as part of the same course of treatment

From October 2004 - July 2005 your husband was covered by 4. a (iii) as a student, and from October 2005 - September 2006 by 4. b as he had resided in the UK for more than one year. It could be argued that he was covered by 4. a (iv) from August 2005 - September 2005 as it seems like the evidence clearly shows that he intended to take up permanent residence in the UK. It can also be argued that should the UK claim that he was not covered by comprehensive insurance from August 2005 - September 2005, it would be disproportionate to deny permanent residence for this reason - I am sure the European Commission would agree with this (And you should complain to the European Commission if the UK tries to deny permanent residency for this reason - You can find out how to complain here: http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/f ... rce_en.htm). A case that may be of some relevance is: Case C-413/99 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/s ... 61999J0413

93 Under those circumstances, to refuse to allow Mr Baumbast to exercise the right of residence which is conferred on him by Article 18(1) EC by virtue of the application of the provisions of Directive 90/364 on the ground that his sickness insurance does not cover the emergency treatment given in the host Member State would amount to a disproportionate interference with the exercise of that right.

The reason this judgement might be relevant is the point the court makes that action taken by Member States has to be proportionate.

No Name wrote:Plum70 wrote:

My husband is a EEA National & has been residing in the UK since October 2004 as follows:

October 2004 - July 2005 (Full time study&self-sufficient)
July 2005 - September 2006 (self-sufficient but only foreign bank statements as proof)
September 2006 - present (employed)

Am I right to think that he would only qualify for PR in September 2011 based on the fact that for the first 2 years he may not be considered as exercising treaty rights (more so as he only has foreign bank statements to prove his self-sufficiency)?

Your husband will get permanent residency in October 2009. It does not matter that the bank statements (July 2005 - September 2006 are foreign), what matters is that he was self-sufficient (not claiming public funds)

John wrote:

did he indeed have "comprehensive sickness insurance cover"?

The term comprehensive sickness insurance cover is defined on the following Home Office website: http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/britis ... documents/

Comprehensive sickness insurance

Insurance that will pay for any medical treatment required in the United Kingdom by someone who is not entitled to treatment from the National Health Service. You may have to show you have this insurance in order to be allowed to live in the United Kingdom.

So if your husband is covered by the NHS he has "comprehensive sickness insurance cover". The term does not mean that he has to have private medical insurance as the NHS provides "comprehensive sickness insurance cover"

"The National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 1989" (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19890306_en_1.htm) explains who is entitled to NHS treatment:

Overseas visitors exempt from charges
4. No charge shall be made in respect of any services forming part of the health service provided for an overseas visitor, being a person, or the spouse or child of a person-
(a) who is shown to the satisfaction of the Authority to be present in the United Kingdom or in a designated area of the Continental Shelf or, if his employer has his principal place of business in the United Kingdom, in or over any area of the Continental Shelf, or on a stationary structure within the territorial waters of the United Kingdom, for the purpose of-
(i) engaging in employment as an employed or self-employed person; or
(ii) working as a volunteer with a voluntary organisation that is providing a service similar to a relevant service as defined in sections 64 and 65 of the Health Services and Public Health Act 1968[12], or service to which Article 71 of the Health and Personal Social Services (Northern Ireland) Order 1972[13] applies; or
(iii) pursuing a course of study where the period of study during the first year of the course is broken by a period or periods of industrial or analogous experience forming an integral part of the course amounting in aggregate to not less than 12 weeks; or
(iv) taking up permanent residence in the United Kingdom; or
(b) who has resided in the United Kingdom for the period of not less than one year immediately preceding the time when the services are provided, whether or not immediately prior to the completion of one year's residence as aforesaid, charges under these Regulations may have been made in respect of services provided as part of the same course of treatment

From October 2004 - July 2005 your husband was covered by 4. a (iii) as a student, and from October 2005 - September 2006 by 4. b as he had resided in the UK for more than one year. It could be argued that he was covered by 4. a (iv) from August 2005 - September 2005 as it seems like the evidence clearly shows that he intended to take up permanent residence in the UK. It can also be argued that should the UK claim that he was not covered by comprehensive insurance from August 2005 - September 2005, it would be disproportionate to deny permanent residence for this reason - I am sure the European Commission would agree with this (And you should complain to the European Commission if the UK tries to deny permanent residency for this reason - You can find out how to complain here: http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/f ... rce_en.htm). A case that may be of some relevance is: Case C-413/99 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/s ... 61999J0413

93 Under those circumstances, to refuse to allow Mr Baumbast to exercise the right of residence which is conferred on him by Article 18(1) EC by virtue of the application of the provisions of Directive 90/364 on the ground that his sickness insurance does not cover the emergency treatment given in the host Member State would amount to a disproportionate interference with the exercise of that right.

The reason this judgement might be relevant is the point the court makes that action taken by Member States has to be proportionate.

Thanx for your reply. I will look into this further and do some more investigation.

Cheers,

Chinye

Regarding the issue of: "comprehensive sickness insurance cover" when self sufficient please also take a look at the following topic:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=30502

See also AG and others (EEA-jobseeker-self-sufficient person-proof) Germany [2007] UKAIT 00075.

Thanks to Vinny for the interesting link to case UKAIT 00075.

I am not sure if this case has very much relevance to the case in this thread. However when reading the judgement I found it quoted the case "W(China) and X(China) v SSHD [2006] EWCA Civ 1494" (can be found here: http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/f ... x_3_en.pdf). I found point 26. (by Lord Justice Sedley) in the judgement interesting:

But I would enter a caveat as to whether the Directive, when it speaks of "sickness insurance in respect of all risks" is necessarily
speaking of private health insurance. The National Health Service, although now heavily funded out of general taxation, is in origin and in law based on national insurance. Nothing would have been easier, in the Directive and in the Rules, than to include the word 'private' if
that alone was what was meant – especially since, so far as I know, private insurance rarely if ever covers all risks, such as the risk of requiring long-term medical care.

It is a problem that since the Directive came into force there has not been any judgements in the European Court of justice regarding this matter.

Interestingly, CBTM10070 – Residence and Immigration: Residence - Right to reside in the UK

A self-sufficient person
A self-sufficient person means a person who has -

• Sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom during his period of residence; and
• Comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom.

For the purposes of Child Benefit, “social assistance” is Income Support, income-based Jobseekers Allowance or Pension Credit.

Comprehensive sickness cover includes the National Heath Service (NHS) cover.

Thanks for the above link to the HMRC's site. My husband will attempt applying for confirmation of permanent residency in October this year (He was registered with the NHS from December 2004 onwards). Whether or not he gets it remains to be seen.

I have written a private message to frontier mole for changing his behaviour,i have noticed by reading some of his emails,his behaviour is so rude and challanging,I think he should understand that bullying some one and being dearly beloved to some one is showing his rotten interior.People like him/her should be banned from these forums.

Pretty random post!

I did not even post on this thread so what are you on about?

Another brainless idiot!

It is not a random post,you have been bullying people in different forums,what right do you have to bully people,you mindless freak.

and if you need proof of your ugly and wide mouth approach,look in Indefinite Leave Thru Set(F) for Mum/Dad FORUM