CRIMINAL OFFENCE

Hello,

There is a question in the VAF9 form that says "Do you have any criminal convictions in any country (including traffic offences)?". I unfortunately was caught speeding in the Detroit last October and paid a penalty of $150. Though its a minor offence, am not sure to what extend this will influence the caseworker in making the decision. Did anybodody get their application processed successfully despite getting traffic tickets in the past ?

jack_p wrote:Hello,

There is a question in the VAF9 form that says "Do you have any criminal convictions in any country (including traffic offences)?". I unfortunately was caught speeding in the Detroit last October and paid a penalty of $150. Though its a minor offence, am not sure to what extend this will influence the caseworker in making the decision. Did anybodody get their application processed successfully despite getting traffic tickets in the past ?

It shouldn't do. I think the process is done on a case-by-case basis.

Yes, ideally it shouldn't make any difference.Anyway.I'll keep everybody posted with the result.

jack_p wrote:Hello,

There is a question in the VAF9 form that says "Do you have any criminal convictions in any country (including traffic offences)?". I unfortunately was caught speeding in the Detroit last October and paid a penalty of $150. Though its a minor offence, am not sure to what extend this will influence the caseworker in making the decision. Did anybodody get their application processed successfully despite getting traffic tickets in the past ?

Here is the excerpt from guidance on refusal of EC on the grounds of criminal conviction (includes Traffic Offence)

Refusal on grounds of criminal conviction [Updated 11 August 2008]
Paragraph 320(18 ) of the Rules states that an application should normally be refused if that person has been convicted of an offence in any country, which would be punishable with imprisonment for a term of 12 months or more if the offence had occurred in the UK,. ECOs should not refuse under 320(18 ) if the conviction is considered “spentâ€

unfortunately it seems from above that an over-speeding offence puts your application in jeopardy. As I am not a lawyer so my understanding of the immigration law/interpretation thereof and opinion thus formed should be read in that light only. I have quoted just one portion of the Guidance and as is usually the case there would be a number of caveats attached to these.

The fundamental question to be answered is whether Over-speeding equates to Dangerous Driving?

Senior members are welcome to comment on the issue further.

speeding doesnt come under dangerous driving.

Also conviction is different from fixed penalty.

I am not sure how the US traffic rules apply. But, in UK if you are caught speeding there would be a fixed penalty, unless you want to challenge the police by going to court.

As far as I know speeding should be OK and doesnt come under criminal conviction and I dont think you need to mention about it in the application

It is not as offensive as dangearous driving and driving under the influence

hope this helps

[quote] Refusal on grounds of criminal conviction [Updated 11 August 2008]
Paragraph 320(18 ) of the Rules states that an application should normally be refused if that person has been convicted of an offence in any country, which would be punishable with imprisonment for a term of 12 months or more if the offence had occurred in the UK,. ECOs should not refuse under 320(18 ) if the conviction is considered “spentâ€

aruni4470 wrote:Also it is clearly mentioned above that the offense should be of kind which is sentensable for 12 months. Speeding is not a sentensable offence. Dangerous driving is.

I dont think so. See this

In order to secure a conviction for dangerous driving, the Prosecution have to satisfy the Court that your driving fell far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver AND it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous. The law further clarifies what “dangerousâ€

I may be wrong, but all these clauses from various websites are kinda blown out of proportion as far as my case is concerned. Irrespective of the caseworker treating Speeding as Dangerous Driving or not, I didn't go to the court and there isn't any question of sentencing. I do not know the interpretation of the caseworker either, but in a literal sense, I somehow feel this offence shouldn't influence in making a decision. Thanks much guys for those inputs. Will keep everybody posted with the result.

Hi Jack_p,

I think you should declare it as a traffic offence and state that you were fined $150 which you have paid and case wasn't charged to court.

Its better to declare any minor offence than for the CW to find out later if you dont declare it. It means you have made a false claim which contravene's the declaration rule. So, declare and let the CW make decisions. I believe if you do, it will not affect your application rather than not declaring.

Cheers
1971.

jack_p wrote:I may be wrong, but all these clauses from various websites are kinda blown out of proportion as far as my case is concerned. Irrespective of the caseworker treating Speeding as Dangerous Driving or not, I didn't go to the court and there isn't any question of sentencing. I do not know the interpretation of the caseworker either, but in a literal sense, I somehow feel this offence shouldn't influence in making a decision. Thanks much guys for those inputs. Will keep everybody posted with the result.

Please see my caveats above. I have just copy/pasted stuff from here and there. All the best with your application process

I would like to remind you that the application asked you about the CONVICTIONS, a speeding ticket is not a conviction.

A conviction is the judgment of a jury or judge that a person is guilty of a crime as charged.

The larger issue is, is Speeding considered to be Dangerous Driving, if yes then even if they let ppl off just by issuing a ticket, the maximum punishment is 2 years which is what the Guidance Note I have quoted a caseworker should focus on (and not on whether or not the sentence was given)

When you are caught speeding and if it is considered dangerous driving, the police would not issue you with a fixed penalty ticket. Instead, they would issue you with a warrant. Which has not happened in this case.

Speeding is considered as dangerous driving in serious conditions. For example, you do 100 miles in a 70 mile zone (this is only a example)

Convictions are only when you are taken to court.

However, these are only my views.

The larger issue is, is Speeding considered to be Dangerous Driving, if yes then even if they let ppl off just by issuing a ticket, the maximum punishment is 2 years which is what the Guidance Note I have quoted a caseworker should focus on (and not on whether or not the sentence was given)

Here you have to look at two different things.

Speeding is different from dangearous driving. But, speeding can be considered as dangerous driving in serious cases.

In this particular case, Jack_p was not issued with summons but was given a fixed penalty. This explains that this is not serious enough to be considered as dangerous driving. If it is not considered as dangerous driving, there is no possibility of a sentense.

According to push_hsmp's link www.uktrafficlaw.co.uk, I would like to quote a paragraph under speeding

If the police already know you are the driver and you have been told that you will be reported, or if information has been given to the effect that you were the driver at the material time, then you will usually receive an offer of a fixed penalty. If you accept this, you will be fined £60 and your licence will be endorsed with 3 penalty points.

In more serious cases or, if you fall foul of the totting up procedure, the fixed penalty procedure will not apply. You will simply receive a summons which the police must apply for within 6 months of the date that it was known to them that you were the driver. This will tell you when your case will be in court.

If you plead guilty to, or are found guilty of a speeding offence, the Court has an unfettered power to disqualify you, fine you up to certain limits, and order you to pay prosecution costs. Points are awarded on a sliding scale between 3 and 6 penalty points – the higher the speed the greater the number of points that you will receive.

Personally I feel that this is not a conviction but, if you feel comfortable mentioning about it in the application, you should do it.

It should not have any affect on the CW.

1971 wrote:Hi Jack_p,

I think you should declare it as a traffic offence and state that you were fined $150 which you have paid and case wasn't charged to court.

Its better to declare any minor offence than for the CW to find out later if you dont declare it. It means you have made a false claim which contravene's the declaration rule. So, declare and let the CW make decisions. I believe if you do, it will not affect your application rather than not declaring.

Cheers
1971.

This was a major dilemma I had for almost a day and fortunately I decided to put it in the application form as Traffic offence and sentence as $150 penalty.

jack_p wrote:

1971 wrote:Hi Jack_p,

I think you should declare it as a traffic offence and state that you were fined $150 which you have paid and case wasn't charged to court.

Its better to declare any minor offence than for the CW to find out later if you dont declare it. It means you have made a false claim which contravene's the declaration rule. So, declare and let the CW make decisions. I believe if you do, it will not affect your application rather than not declaring.

Cheers
1971.

This was a major dilemma I had for almost a day and fortunately I decided to put it in the application form as Traffic offence and sentence as $150 penalty.

Lets hope it goes through. All the best.

I'm with aruni4470 on this one.

The guidance specifically states that the offence must be a criminal conviction. In Oz, speeding within a certain range is not a criminal offence and you are simply asked to pay a fine (as in your case). However, if you were asked to appear at a court hearing and found *guilty* than that would be a criminal offence.

I've had a number of speeding fines when I applied for my HSMP and did not declare it in the application for this very reason.

Alright here we go. My Visa got successfully processed. Though I'm still not sure to what extend the offence has influenced, the very outcome is positive indeed !!! But the posters of this thread have been lot helpful and am grateful to each one of you.

SECTION 3: GOOD CHARACTER
To be of good character you should have shown respect for the rights and freedoms of the
United Kingdom, observed its laws and fulfilled your duties and obligations as a resident of
the United Kingdom. Checks will be carried out to ensure that the information you give is
correct.
If you are not honest about the information you provide and you are naturalised on the
basis of incorrect or fraudulent information you will be liable to have British citizenship
taken away (deprivation) and be prosecuted. It is a criminal offence to make a false
declaration knowing that it is untrue.
Among the duties and obligations, which you are expected to fulfil, is payment of income
tax and National Insurance contributions. We may ask H.M. Revenue & Customs for
confirmation that your tax and National Insurance affairs are in order. When you sign the
application form you will be giving your consent for us to approach them.
3.1 – 3.5. If you do not pay income tax through PAYE you must demonstrate that you
have discharged your obligations towards the H.M. Revenue & Customs, by
attaching a Self Assessment Statement of Account (see page 28).
3.6 You must give details of all civil judgments which have resulted in a court order
being made against you. If you have been declared bankrupt at any time you should
give details of the bankruptcy proceedings. Your application is unlikely to succeed if
you are an undischarged bankrupt.
You do not need to give details of family law proceedings such as divorce decrees dissolved
civil partnerships, guardianship orders, parental responsibility orders etc.
You must give details of all criminal convictions both within or outside the United
Kingdom. These include road traffic offences, but not fixed penalty notices which have not
been given in a court. Fixed penalty notices include parking and speeding offences. Drink
driving offences must be declared.
You do not have to give details of any offences which are “spentâ€