please help, spouse visa question

hi mates,
I am an algerian national, married in october 2004 to a british citizen, came to algeria to apply for spouse visa and was refused, they were right cause i did not have sufficient funds to support and did not submit tenancy agreement, now i am ready to go and apply again because my circumstances changed, i have support from my father who put in my account nearly 10000pounds and my wife got the council house on her name and send me first page of tenancy agreement, i applied online for a job wiht NTL and i have an appointment for the interview in three weeks time. i am submitting all of these documetns to apply again in addition i am graduated from university in teaching english language and have five year experience in administration wiht oil companies . my question is , since my wife is on benefits, will all i have said above have a chance for me to get this visa or i am obliged to stay hopless, i am having the worst days in my life , being far from the woman i love, it hurts when she is telling when u r coming home. please help

1. On what basis has your spouse got a council house i.e. her turn on the list came up, she was prioritised as homeless etc?

2. Does she pay the rent from employment income?

2. What other state benefits is she receiving if any?

thanks for helping me , well my wife been living in the house since two years ago, but the house was on her ex husband's name as well, so after she took my name the house is on her name now, she was not homeless, i just meant that the house now is on her name after submitting our marriag certificate to the housing, on the other hand, my wife is receiving benefits income support and council housing, so for me i can work and i have the chances to get a job and start my life wiht my wife but since she is on benefits how to convince an immigration officer about that, i feel i have enough money now , so whatelse i have to submitt or to prove, i am so worried to be refused again. please help

"Marley2005", it is clear from the detailed instructions given to staff dealing with settlement visa applications that it is OK for the sponsoring spouse to be receiving Public Funds. However do appreciate that as soon as you move in and start earning your wife's ability to claim income support and possibly housing benefit might well disappear.

The question they need to ask themselves is whether you, the applicant for a visa, will need to claim Public Funds, or whether your wife's claim(s) would need to be increased in amount if the visa application was to be granted. However the opposite appears to be the case ..... you starting to earn will reduce the overall burden on the UK Government.

You now say about the £10000, and indeed good job prospects. Clearly you will want to emphasise those factors when your new application is considered. Hope it all works out well.

i feel a lot better, thanks for the reply
if you don't mind i still have another question concerning proof of accommodation paper which is the tenancy agreement, my wife told me that it is kind of a book so she sent me only the first page that shows the maximum of people allowed and the ammount of rent and some other information, is this enough or i have to take the whole document?
please advise

Marley2005, I think I would say ... don't skimp on the evidence you provide. As far as accommodation is concerned, there clearly needs to be a right to live there, and also proof that the property is suitable and certainly not overcrowded.

The rent-book, because that is what it sounds like, is obviously useful, but I would also submit a copy of the whole tenancy agreement, as well as details such as the number of people who will live there if the visa is granted, and the number of rooms, excluding Spam, bathroom and toilet, that exceed 50 sq feet in size. That way it will be clear that the place will not be overcrowded as defined. Also some pics of the place if possible.

In other words, put yourself in the shoes of the ECO deciding the visa application, what sort of information would make it very clear that the accommodation test is clearly passed?

dear john, i am so glad to find people like you , i am not gonna keep asking questions but i am so lost lately and my wife keep saying, come home soon, i want to apply this time and have all my chances that is why i still need some clarification please.
well, here are the documents i am submitting and please tell me if anything can be added :

-my wife's birth certificate( she does not have passport issued yet)
-my passport, two photographs,visa fee, application VAF2
-my wife's divorce paper
-marriage certificate
-wedding pictures
-my bank statement 10000pounds
-university degree certificate in teaching english ,
-baccalauriate certificate in natural sciences
-job certificates wiht halliburton and BP covers five years experience in algeria
-my cv
-tenancy agreement ( sent by fax to me )
-job application answer from NTL in the uk saying that i may be called for interview in three weeks
-job offers samples printed out from job centre plus as proof of what kind of jobs i feel able to find.
-my birth certificate

please tell me what you think of these and do u think it is necessary to get a letter from housing allowing me to live in the property or tenancy agreement is enough?
nb: my wife is on benefits

please take a look and help me , i am trying here to get a general view of my chances, thanks a lot

Well sounds good to me! If I were the ECO you would clearly get your visa. Regretfully you have to convince someone else!

Sounds comprehensive except no real mention of your wife's finances, such as they are. She is acting as your sponsor ... the application form and guidance makes it clear that evidence needs to be supplied by her.

Also your birth certificate and any other certificate not in English .... a translation into English is helpful. And not just for the visa interview. For example, you will be surprised just how many times your birth certificate will be useful in the first year or so in the UK .... getting National Insurance number, etc etc.

Just one final comment .... the mode of presentation. It should not make any difference but if all the evidence is neatly presented, in a folder divided into relevant sections well, at the very least, it will make the job of the ECO much easier. We presented a folder about 5cm divided into sections such as ... Financial ... Accommodation ... Evidence of Contact .... etc., in order to get my wife her spouse visa.

one more thing, please
i was refused my marriage visa application before but i wrote in my appeal the reason for applying late is that the tenancy agreement took time for me to be issued, i got an answer from embassy saying that, sorry the appeal was received late , is that right or there was to be more explanation, i just want to know if this was ok as an answer or i should have received a detailed one.

i got an answer from embassy saying that, sorry the appeal was received late

How long was it from hearing your application had been rejected that you appealed? How many weeks or days?

thanks john for replying,

well it was four weeks late .

1. Forget about the appeal - the refusal on the basis of the info you provided was justified. In any case the appeal was submitted out of time. An audjicator would only list it if it were in the interests of justice pursuant to your case being of a compeling nature..a lack of tenancy agreement IMHO is a non starter. I expect the HO to appeal such anway and be successful.

2. Given your spouse has no passport it would be useful to show further evidence of her settled status in the UK via submission of formal documents e.g. Record of NI contributions, NHS medical card (certified copies should be enough).

3. IMHO the ECO would be more minded to grant the application if your spouse can demonstrate employability/ she is seeking employment. Is there a reason she is not currently in work? What are her educational qualifications and work experience? I mean no offence with my questions.

dear,

I did apply last week for spouse visa, and i received a call today telling me that i was refused again and have the right to appeal , i still don't know why , i am waiting for the documents but i feel so down, can you please tell me if i apply for a visitor visa to visit my wife this will be seen i just want to get into the country? what are other ways that i can join my wife, of course i will appeal but for sure is gonna take some months, what hurts me much is when i see her crying and asking me to come home soon, i am so down please help

"Marley2005", so sorry to hear that. Yes please do let us know the grounds of the rejection. Those clearly need to be worked upon and got around, so that a further application should be successful.

Visitor's visa? May be difficult. The problem is that an applicant for such a visa needs a "reason to return" to their own country, but why would you return, your wife is in the UK!

thanks for replying,
i feel so down really, i wonder why the marriage immigration law is concidered like this, this is a life of a couple on the line, why i have to be rich to join my wife, why love is not taken into account, i have loads of questions, my wife lives in manchester and has five kids, the older is 17 and the younger is 10 she is 36 i am 33 is it because she has kids that sounds love can't exist and an algerian in love wiht a british wiht kids seems a bit douptful , i have never loved a person as i love my wife since the day i was born, she is living in a property for about two years ago, and of course me wiht her in our own room is not overcrowding , i still don't know the reason for refusal but i been asked questions about this, it seems like they are making things harder for couples to unite. dear john please tell me what to do, i am planning to give it to a solicitor this time, and let him do the necessary. do u know anyone in manchester ?

of course me with her in our own room is not overcrowding

Sorry that is not the way the calculation is done. So at the moment, in that accommodation, live one adult, your wife, and five children aged 10 to 17 years of age. And if the visa is granted then you will also move in, making a total of seven people living there.

Question .... ignoring any bathroom, Spam or toilet .... how many rooms are there that are at least 50 square feet in size?

The problem is that it is possible that the property is classed as overcrowded now, and you moving in will only make the property more overcrowded. Is accommodation mentioned as a reason for rejecting the application?

why i have to be rich to join my wife, why love is not taken into account

I know it obviously seems like it at the moment but the truth is that you do not need to be rich, and in a sense love is taken into account .... because the ECO dealing with the application certainly wants to ensure that the relationship is real and likely to last, as compared to being a marriage of convenience.

Without knowing the actual grounds for rejection of the application it is really impossible to comment further.

A Solicitor in Manchester? Sorry, I don't know, given that Manchester is the best part of 100 miles away from here. But also, until you know the grounds for the rejection it is really not worth approaching anyone. Their first question is likely to be .... "Why was the application rejected?" ... and "Don't know" .. is not going to be helpful.

Hope it all works out in the end.

dear john

I just got the refusal notice today, i am gonna write the reasons and please give me some help how i can make the appeal and how u see my case.

"however i am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities.that you meet the requirements of papragraph 281 in particular:
- that you will be able to maintain yourselves and any dependants adequately wihtout further reourse to public funds"

john, they wote an explanation but it is in three paragraphs so i chose the title of the refusal because in my first refusal there were three points accommodation, sufficient funds and marriaed on visitor's visa but this time they are satisfied wiht the points and only one point needs to be covered as it seems, even though i submitted a sum of 10000 pounds, i explained that my family collected the money for me as help to join my wife, but the officer told me that he is not satisfied wiht this cause they should have applied pressure on themselves to give you the money especially wiht life expenses they have, i told her that i have the money and this is kind of traditions and part of the culture we have that the whole town can move to help somone or a group of people like i witnesed some time ago 30 men got married in a huge wedding party made by the help of the people of my town. so please can u tell me what u see on all this.

dear john

I just got the refusal notice today, i am gonna write the reasons and please give me some help how i can make the appeal and how u see my case.

"however i am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities.that you meet the requirements of papragraph 281 in particular:
- that you will be able to maintain yourselves and any dependants adequately wihtout further reourse to public funds"

john, they wote an explanation but it is in three paragraphs so i chose the title of the refusal because in my first refusal there were three points accommodation, sufficient funds and marriaed on visitor's visa but this time they are satisfied wiht the points and only one point needs to be covered as it seems, even though i submitted a sum of 10000 pounds, i explained that my family collected the money for me as help to join my wife, but the officer told me that he is not satisfied wiht this cause they should have applied pressure on themselves to give you the money especially wiht life expenses they have, i told her that i have the money and this is kind of traditions and part of the culture we have that the whole town can move to help somone or a group of people like i witnesed some time ago 30 men got married in a huge wedding party made by the help of the people of my town. so please can u tell me what u see on all this.

Hi, I think it is little consolation that you are making progress ... from three reasons for rejection down to just one ... but clearly you need to jump over that final hurdle!

At this stage I think .... don't appeal ... appeals can take ages .... but instead write a letter to the Manager of the Visa Section at the Embassy asking that Manager to review the rejection decision.

Clearly your letter needs to emphasise all the good points about the financial aspects, certainly that you have £10000 available to you to prevent you needing to claim any Public Funds. It might also be worthwhile reminding the Manager that your wife is British and so are all her children and therefore there is no problem with them claiming Public Funds, but that you fully appreciate that your wife cannot claim more money after you arrive.

Also emphasise your English language teaching skills and the sort of salary you should be able to earn.

And finally point out that instead of possibly costing the British Government Public Funds, you being allowed your spouse visa and moving to the UK to live with your wife and then getting a job, all that will actually save the British Government money, as your income will be taken into account and will tend to reduce or even eradicate the claims currently being made by your wife.

Try to get that letter into the Manager at the Visa Section in the next day or two. No guarantees of course, but certainly an informal review by the Manager sometimes works and indeed is a quick process.

dear john,
i am so blessed reading your advice , it really made the way so lear in front of me , i am just gonna ask you about something, well i have a house here in algeria and since the immigration officer was not satisifed about my family collecting money for me or i don't know if she found it strange, but what if i sell the house and how them doumetn about that and the price of it , is it gonna help ?
please advise