Naturalization-Citizenship Query regarding dependents

Hi

I would like to know about the clarification from this forum regarding the query about Naturalization/Citizenship.

Base rule for main applicant.. if main applicant stays in UK (after getting ILR) for one year which he/she is eligible to apply for naturalization. In case, if the dependents (who already got ILR) stays out of the country UK for holidays more than 90 days (i.e. 3 months) and join the main applicant in UK after 3 or 4 months.

In this scenario, still dependents can be eligible to apply for naturalization along with main applicant as per right schedule (i.e after One year ILR period completion). Or is there any restriction about absence of dates/presence in UK?

Please clarify me.

Thanks in advance.

..techy

Base rule for main applicant.. if main applicant stays in UK (after getting ILR) for one year which he/she is eligible to apply for naturalization.

Assuming that when the Naturalisation application is made, the person was physically in the UK exactly 5 years earlier.

Please explain .... who are these dependents? Spouse? Children? Are the children still under the age of 18, or are there now 18 or more?

John

Thank you for quick reply.

I will explain my scenario. If the main applicant got ILR ( in Jan'2009 ), he is eligible for applying naturalization after 1 year i.e. in Jan'2010. Main applicant got ILR after 5 years continuous stay.

Dependents ( spouse and children under age 18 ) can be eligible for applying naturalization ( along with main applicant in Jan'2010 ) if dependents are out of UK for 4 or 5 months and later they join the main applicant in UK.

Please clarify.

techy123, you need to read and understand :-

Assuming that when the Naturalisation application is made, the person was physically in the UK exactly 5 years earlier.

Simple warning ..... do take account of any absence from the UK ... and time your applications accordingly.

So let's say you apply 31.01.10. Fine, you have had ILR for at least one year, but were you physically in the UK exactly 5 years earlier, on 31.01.05? If not, you can't apply on 31.01.10. Likewise for your wife, was she in the UK on 31.01.05?

As regards the minor children, the rules are more relaxed, And yes, applications to Register the children as British, using forms MN1, can be submitted at the same time as the form(s) AN are submitted for one or both parents for their Naturalisation.

John,

Coming to the absence from UK, from Jan 2004 to till date we ( main applicant + dependents ) have only 80 days absence in total. My dependents are with me from Jan'2004 to till date in UK.

So in this case, if the dependents are out of UK about 4 or 5 months and join the main applicant in Nov/Dec '2009.. can dependents are eligible to apply for Naturalization in Jan'2010 along with main applicant.

Please clarify.

Thanks
techy123

techy123, I have now posted it twice, but I fear you are still not taking on board the words I quoted last time.

Please re-read, and assure me that you understand!

join the main applicant in Nov/Dec '2009

Do you really mean 2009?

John,

Thank you for your quick relpy.

Please bear with me, as I am repeating same to explain my query.

As I wrote in my previous reply, dependents are with main applicant from Jan 2004 to till date ( i.e. July'2009 ). Till today, totally we had 80 days absence from UK. Main applicant and dependents got ILR in Jan 2009.

So in this scenario, if the dependents are out of UK (for example Aug 2009 to Dec 2009 ) and join the main applicant in Dec 2009. In this case, can dependents are eligible to apply for Naturalization in Jan 2010 along with main applicant. Please clarify me, is this absence (i.e. around 4 months) will be accepted while applying naturalization along with main applicant.

Thanks
techy123

dependents are with main applicant from Jan 2004 to till date ( i.e. July'2009 )

So are you saying that there were no absences at all from January 2004 to July 2009? You were all literally in the UK all of that time?

If so they were clearly in the UK in say January 2005.

if the dependents are out of UK (for example Aug 2009 to Dec 2009 )

So your wife plans to be out of the UK all that time. How many days is that? Do be aware that the legislation specifies no more than 90 days out of the UK in the last year, up to the date of applying for Naturalisation.

And yes, given they can exercise discretion if the number of days out of the UK is no more than 100, and indeed even more than that, I really would recommend that your wife is not out of the UK more than the 90 days specified in the legislation. Why have to rely on UKBA discretion when you don't need to?

The children? Not a problem, as long as it is clear they are living in the UK.

John,

As I mentioned in my previous reply, we all ( including main applicant, wife and children - under 18) have absence of 80 days in total from Jan 2004 to July 2009 till date.

Anyway my wife is not willing to apply for naturalization. Only main applicant and children are planning to apply for naturalization in Jan 2010.

My wife wants to go out of UK for holidays with children for 3 to 4 months from Aug 2009 to Dec 2009. So in this scenario, can my children are eligible for applying Naturalization along with main applicant in Jan 2010. Is there any restriction of absence (i.e. out of UK, 100 days max for last year) is applicable to children also?

Please clarify.

Thanks

As I mentioned in my previous reply, we all ( including main applicant, wife and children - under 18) have absence of 80 days in total from Jan 2004 to July 2009 till date.

Well that is want I thought you were saying! So, were you absent from the UK anytime in January 2005? I ask this because you are intending to apply for Naturalisation in January 2010, after you have had your ILR for one year.

The children? They will not be applying for Naturalisation. They will be applying for Registration as British, and different rules apply to absences for such applications.

Any reason why your wife does not want to apply for Naturalisation?

John,

We had no absence in January 2005. We had absence of 80 days in 2006 year only.

Regarding the children, you mean.. they need to wait until the main applicant got the Citizenship. After main applicant becomes as British Citizen, children will be eligible for applying Citizenship? Please correct me if I am wrong.

As of now, my wife is not planning to apply for naturalization and not willing to loose own country ( by birth ) citizenship.

Thank you so much for your quick replies.

We had no absence in January 2005. We had absence of 80 days in 2006 year only.

Thanks for confirming.

Regarding the children, you mean.. they need to wait until the main applicant got the Citizenship. After main applicant becomes as British Citizen, children will be eligible for applying Citizenship? Please correct me if I am wrong.

The forms MN1 for each of the children can be submitted at the same time as your form AN. Or, your choice, the forms MN1 for the children can be submitted after you have become a British Citizen.

If you submit all the applications together, all the certificates will get presented at a Citizenship Ceremony, something your children will probably remember for the rest of their lives.

My wife's and step-daughter's applications were made at the same time, and thus they got their certificates at the same time, and the picture (now 5 years old) from the Citizenship Ceremony, showing them being presented with their certificates by Birmingham's Lord Mayor, is still prominently displayed in our living room.

As of now, my wife is not planning to apply for naturalization and not willing to loose own country ( by birth ) citizenship.

If she is from a country that does not allow dual nationality, that makes total sense.

John,

Thank you for your reply.

She is from asian country (India). As of my knowledge India is allowing to apply dual citizenship recently may be from 2006/2007 year. I am not sure about dual citizenship (India) information.

She is from asian country (India). As of my knowledge India is allowing to apply dual citizenship recently may be from 2006/2007 year. I am not sure about dual citizenship (India) information.

My understanding is, no, India does not permit dual citizenship.

Just to add, that though there's no provision of dual citizenship in India, an indian citizen who acquires UK/USA nationality can apply for OCI status (aka dual citizenship in layman language). More information on OCI is available on different threads on this forum.

HTH

John wrote:techy123, you need to read and understand :-

Assuming that when the Naturalisation application is made, the person was physically in the UK exactly 5 years earlier.

Simple warning ..... do take account of any absence from the UK ... and time your applications accordingly.

So let's say you apply 31.01.10. Fine, you have had ILR for at least one year, but were you physically in the UK exactly 5 years earlier, on 31.01.05? If not, you can't apply on 31.01.10. Likewise for your wife, was she in the UK on 31.01.05?

As regards the minor children, the rules are more relaxed, And yes, applications to Register the children as British, using forms MN1, can be submitted at the same time as the form(s) AN are submitted for one or both parents for their Naturalisation.

Sounds like there's some relaxation with being physically present in the UK exactly 5 years prior to naturalisation application

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Read point 3.3 under section 3 "Presence in the UK at the beginning of the 5(3) year qualifying period"

The re-declaration possibility has been there for ages, but also notice that the first bullet point in 3.3 talks of "the unwaivable residence requirement", so I don't think it is correct to talk about "Sounds like there's some relaxation with being physically present in the UK exactly 5 years prior to naturalisation application", given that the date of application is being moved by the re-declaration.

And to force this home, do note this, to the disgust of someone who submitted their Naturalisation application just before a fee increase, and who had obviously hoped to save the fee increase, because of re-declaration, the application date is moving ..... and yes UKBA did wanted the fee increase before proceeding.

John wrote:

As of now, my wife is not planning to apply for naturalization and not willing to loose own country ( by birth ) citizenship.

If she is from a country that does not allow dual nationality, that makes total sense.

Depending on the country involved, it may not make any sense - a British passport is worth more than most others.

John wrote:

Base rule for main applicant.. if main applicant stays in UK (after getting ILR) for one year which he/she is eligible to apply for naturalization.

Assuming that when the Naturalisation application is made, the person was physically in the UK exactly 5 years earlier.

Please explain .... who are these dependents? Spouse? Children? Are the children still under the age of 18, or are there now 18 or more?

Can I ask something about another scenario.
WP+HSMP under the JR, ILR backdated for 16 months, planning to apply for naturalisation now. Would that mean I should have been physically in the country 5 years back, today? or when I completed 1 year of ILR?

Would that mean I should have been physically in the country 5 years back, today?

Today? Only if you are applying today! You must have been physically in the UK exactly 5 years before UKBA receive the Naturalisation application.

Do note that UKBA have no discretion about this particular rule. It is either passed or failed, that is it.

..... or when I completed 1 year of ILR?

There is no such requirement.

I am an Indian National and came to the UK on 22nd May 2005 and my wife on 11 July 2005 and my daughter born in India joined us here in July 2007.

We got our ILR in May 2009. I am assuming I can apply for Naturalisation on 22nd May 2010 for me, 11 July 2010 for my wife. Any idea when I can apply for my daughter?

When you say rules are relaxed for Minors, can I take it I can apply for her as well along with me?

Thanks in advance.

Sekkappan wrote:I am an Indian National and came to the UK on 22nd May 2005 and my wife on 11 July 2005 and my daughter born in India joined us here in July 2007.

We got our ILR in May 2009. I am assuming I can apply for Naturalisation on 22nd May 2010 for me, 11 July 2010 for my wife. Any idea when I can apply for my daughter?

When you say rules are relaxed for Minors, can I take it I can apply for her as well along with me?

Thanks in advance.

You Can apply for your daughter to be registered as a British Citizen today if you wish as long as she is still minor (less than 18 years old). You could have applied for her infact since 23rd may 2009.

Alos wrote: You Can apply for your daughter to be registered as a British Citizen today if you wish as long as she is still minor (less than 18 years old). You could have applied for her infact since 23rd may 2009.

He can't apply now because daughter is not UK-born. He needs to wait until at least one parent is applying for naturalisation.

JAJ wrote:

Alos wrote: You Can apply for your daughter to be registered as a British Citizen today if you wish as long as she is still minor (less than 18 years old). You could have applied for her infact since 23rd may 2009.

He can't apply now because daughter is not UK-born. He needs to wait until at least one parent is applying for naturalisation.

OOOOps

I am sorry for wrong information. Did not notice that she was born in India.

We got our ILR in May 2009. I am assuming I can apply for Naturalisation on 22nd May 2010 for me, 11 July 2010 for my wife.

Those dates appears to be correct, on your facts, but whilst you can apply before your wife, you might want to delay your application so that you apply at the same time as your wife.

Why? As the Fees Leaflet says, if you apply at separate times the fee is £720 for each of you, but if you apply at the same time the joint fee is £850.

So you might want to delay your application by less than 2 months .... and save £590! It would also mean that you would attend the same Citizenship Ceremony, which is surely a nicer thing to do than going to separate ceremonies.[/quote]