British citizen, pakistani wife moving to europe

Rasaf · Post by **Rasaf** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:56 am

Hi, I am british and in the UK, my wife is in pakistan, as UK laws have changed, as my wife is only 19 her visa was refused, we would now like to move to france or spain or another EU country so we may be together.

once in Europe how long would we have to wait before moving to the UK using the Surrinder Singh route

What type of visa would we need to apply for, and what documents are required.

I appreciate any help possible in this thank you

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:22 am

Why don't you move to an Englishing speaking country? Maybe Ireland? I just think France and Spain would be quite hard to get yourself up and running.....unless you speak French or Spanish of course.

Anyway you would have to apply for a visa for a spouse of a European citizen which should be issued free of charge and an accelarated process!

I don't think there are any guidelines stating how long you have to be exercising treaty rights in order to be considered under the surrinder sigh, are there? Mybe someone else can clarify that?? But I would probably say six months? As most countries take six months to issue the non-eu spouse with a residence card.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:12 pm

ciaramc wrote:Why don't you move to an Englishing speaking country? Maybe Ireland?

Brilliant! ..(sorry, Ciara).

ciaramc wrote:I don't think there are any guidelines stating how long you have to be exercising treaty rights in order to be considered under the surrinder sigh, are there? Mybe someone else can clarify that?? But I would probably say six months? As most countries take six months to issue the non-eu spouse with a residence card.

The Singh judgement makes no stipulation, but the UK like to think it's six months.

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:18 pm

That was meant to say English speaking ! Just my opinion though as I have moved to non-english speaking country and it's hard especially regarding immigration issues!!

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:20 pm

I know..

And I agree with you. But then as a resident of your country, maybe I'm biassed..

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:41 pm

ciaramc wrote:That was meant to say English speaking ! Just my opinion though as I have moved to non-english speaking country and it's hard especially regarding immigration issues!!

I heard the Dutch and Danes are pretty efficient in processing Resident Card applications for non- EU nationals spouse/family members of EEA nationals (Apart from their returning national).

However with the language barrier, the OP will be better of in an English speaking country like Ireland, as you suggested. It will be easier to establish himself too.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:59 pm

If OP would choose to go to Holland, the following links will be useful:
brochure http://www.ind.nl/nl/Images/brochure_EU ... 115507.pdf (in Dutch and in English)
application form http://www.ind.nl/nl/Images/5005_ENG_M35E_tcm5-590.pdf
The application fee is currently 30 euro, but will be raised to 41 euro very soon.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:27 pm

fysicus wrote:If OP would choose to go to Holland, the following links will be useful:
brochure http://www.ind.nl/nl/Images/brochure_EU ... 115507.pdf (in Dutch and in English)
application form http://www.ind.nl/nl/Images/5005_ENG_M35E_tcm5-590.pdf
The application fee is currently 30 euro, but will be raised to 41 euro very soon.

Thanks for the link. What i am a bit puzzled about, is why they are requesting payment. Under EU law, you are not supposed to pay for residency issued documents. Except of course their nationals are required to pay for it as well. The process in the Netherlands seem pretty straight forward, unlike some other places i have lived lately.

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:50 pm

Obie wrote: I heard the Dutch and Danes are pretty efficient in processing Resident Card applications for EU nationals (Apart from their returning national).

The returning national doesn't really need a RC, as they will already have a Dutch passport or ID. They usually issue RCs for non EU family members in about two months, which is pretty 'efficient' as compared to some other countries (UK?)
They do charge a 30 euro fee when you submit your application (Form M35E). I'm guessing it's some sort of 'administration charge' or something.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:07 pm

Rozen wrote:
Obie wrote: I heard the Dutch and Danes are pretty efficient in processing Resident Card applications for EU nationals (Apart from their returning national).
The returning national doesn't really need a RC, as they will already have a Dutch passport or ID. They usually issue RCs for non EU family members in about two months, which is pretty 'efficient' as compared to some other countries (UK?)
They do charge a 30 euro fee when you submit your application (Form M35E). I'm guessing it's some sort of 'administration charge' or something.

Thanks Rozen. I meant the Non-EEA spouse/Family members of the returning nationals.

Thanks for the correction.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:09 pm

Obie wrote:
ciaramc wrote:That was meant to say English speaking ! Just my opinion though as I have moved to non-english speaking country and it's hard especially regarding immigration issues!!
I heard the Dutch and Danes are pretty efficient in processing Resident Card applications for non- EU nationals spouses of EU national (Apart from their returning national).

However with the language barrier, the OP will be better of in an English speaking country like Ireland, as you suggested. It will be easier to establish himself too.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:55 pm

Rozen wrote:
Obie wrote: I heard the Dutch and Danes are pretty efficient in processing Resident Card applications for EU nationals (Apart from their returning national).
The returning national doesn't really need a RC, as they will already have a Dutch passport or ID. They usually issue RCs for non EU family members in about two months, which is pretty 'efficient' as compared to some other countries (UK?)
They do charge a 30 euro fee when you submit your application (Form M35E). I'm guessing it's some sort of 'administration charge' or something.

actually the fee is only charged for the non-EEA family member Residence Card; for EEA nationals registration is free of charge

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:14 pm

fysicus wrote:
Rozen wrote:They usually issue RCs for non EU family members in about two months, which is pretty 'efficient' as compared to some other countries (UK?)
They do charge a 30 euro fee when you submit your application (Form M35E). I'm guessing it's some sort of 'administration charge' or something.
actually the fee is only charged for the non-EEA family member Residence Card; for EEA nationals registration is free of charge

I actually was talking about non EU family members!

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:25 pm

I think the payment bit, is definitely controversial. Article 5 and 10 states that payment should not be made for visa neither for the resident card in Article 10.

Then again with their level of efficiency, i will overlook and pay the 30 euros fee.

That is obviously better than the punishment that UK , Ireland and Italy inflicts on Non-EEA family members of EEA national.

Needless to mention that the loss of earning as a result of their unnecessary delays will far exceed the 30 euros fees the Dutch charges.

republique · Post by **republique** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:28 pm

Obie wrote:I think the payment bit, is definitely controversial. Article 5 and 10 states that payment should not be made for visa neither for the resident card in Article 10.

Then again with their level of efficiency, i will overlook and pay the 30 euros fee.

That is obviously better than the punishment that UK , Ireland and Italy inflicts on Non-EEA family members of EEA national.

Needless to mention that the loss of earning as a result of their unnecessary delays will far exceed the 30 euros fees the Dutch charges.

Very practical of you.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:05 pm

Obie wrote:I think the payment bit, is definitely controversial. Article 5 and 10 states that payment should not be made for visa neither for the resident card in Article 10.

Then again with their level of efficiency, i will overlook and pay the 30 euros fee.

That is obviously better than the punishment that UK , Ireland and Italy inflicts on Non-EEA family members of EEA national.

Needless to mention that the loss of earning as a result of their unnecessary delays will far exceed the 30 euros fees the Dutch charges.

In Article 10 there is no mention of money, but I think it is wishful thinking to draw the conclusion that a Residence Card should therefore be issued free of charge.
In Article 5 on the other hand it is explicitely written that a visa should be issued free of charge, leaving no doubt on that point.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:29 pm

fysicus wrote:e 10 there is no mention of money, but I think it is wishful thinking to draw the conclusion that a Residence Card should therefore be issued free of charge.
In Article 5 on the other hand it is explicitly written that a visa should be issued free of charge, leaving no doubt on that point.

Fysicus, Article 25 states that no charges should be made for the issuing of residency documents, except those charges are applied to the national of that member states as well.

However as previously stated, due to their efficiency, i will be inclined to pay the stated fees.

Below is a copy of the directive.

http://europa.eu/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/ ... 350048.pdf

Rasaf · Post by **Rasaf** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:03 am

Thank you all for the great information, I had never though we could go to Ireland. The language barier was one of my biggest issues, now I dont need to worry about that.

There are different eea family permits which one do we apply for from pakistan .

what supporting documents do we need to show

how long should it take for her to get her visa.

Do i need to be in Ireland when my wife applies for her visa, or can I meet her there when she flies in from pakistan.

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:51 am

Ok Family Permits are only issued from British embassies....you will have to apply for I'm sure it's a D-Spouse visa spouse of a European citizen.

You apply at the Irish embassy in Pakistan-
read here0

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:04 am

Obie wrote:
fysicus wrote:e 10 there is no mention of money, but I think it is wishful thinking to draw the conclusion that a Residence Card should therefore be issued free of charge.
In Article 5 on the other hand it is explicitly written that a visa should be issued free of charge, leaving no doubt on that point.
Fysicus, Article 25 states that no charges should be made for the issuing of residency documents, except those charges are applied to the national of that member states as well.

However as previously stated, due to their efficiency, i will be inclined to pay the stated fees.

Below is a copy of the directive.

http://europa.eu/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/ ... 350048.pdf

OK, I missed that one. However, the fees for non-EEA family members of Dutch nationals who don't have Community rights are far higher (due to a covert policy of discouraging immigration), see http://www.ind.nl/nl/Images/kosten09_ENG_tcm5-76140.pdf
so I think even the increased fee of 41 euro is well within the bounds set by Article 25

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:48 am

Thanks for enlightening me Fysicus.

I previously thought that if they don't apply payment to their citizens, they can't apply it to EEA nationals or their non-EEA family members.

What they do to the spouse of their national who have never exercised freedom of movement, is entirely up to them.

For example the UK charge nearly Â£900.00 for ILR for spouse of British Citizens, which is fine, but the will be prohibited from doing so in Surinder singh cases.

Rasaf · Post by **Rasaf** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:55 pm

ciaramc wrote:Ok Family Permits are only issued from British embassies....you will have to apply for I'm sure it's a D-Spouse visa spouse of a European citizen.

You apply at the Irish embassy in Pakistan-
read here0

Thank you for the link, from reading the info from the website it mentions that supporting evidance is needed to show that the EU citizen is exercising their EU Treaty Rights. Is a Job offer enough to show this or will I need a letter from an employer.

another question, once in Ireland, would we both be able to come to the UK for a weekend every other month to visit Family.

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:49 pm

You can actually stay in any country within the EU for 3 months without the need to work....but I suppose you have to show evidence to support yourselves...and I'm sure a job offer is acceptable!

As to travel to the UK you will have to apply for a visa for your wife which should be issued free of charge!

sebhoff · Post by **sebhoff** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:47 pm

Rasaf wrote:Thank you all for the great information, I had never though we could go to Ireland. The language barier was one of my biggest issues, now I dont need to worry about that.

Uhm - do you really want to go to Ireland? From what I heard, they are worse than the Brits in some respects - better check out relevant forum posts first... But maybe they have got their act together since I last checked.

Rasaf · Post by **Rasaf** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:14 pm

sebhoff wrote:
Rasaf wrote:Thank you all for the great information, I had never though we could go to Ireland. The language barier was one of my biggest issues, now I dont need to worry about that.
Uhm - do you really want to go to Ireland? From what I heard, they are worse than the Brits in some respects - better check out relevant forum posts first... But maybe they have got their act together since I last checked.

have you got any links in particular, Ive looked in the forumn but not sure what to look for.

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British citizen, pakistani wife moving to europe

British citizen, pakistani wife moving to europe