EU 1 app declined coz add doc not provided within 10days

The Irish EU Treaty Rights section of the Department of Justice Equality and Law Reforms, has made it a routine practice of rejecting applications, when additional documents are not provided within the 10 days time limit stipulated on their request letter.

Some of the documents they sometimes request like PRTB and an Apostille copy of Marriage certificate are simply not obtainable within that ten days time frame, some request involves cross border transaction. By the time the letter reaches the applicant, 4 or 5 days in some cases 6 days is already gone.

I have read few cases where people have provided evidence like pay slips a month late, and have had their application refused/declined after the 6 months deadline.

I am quite wary about this practice, and wondered if any provision in directive 2004/38C gives them the power to apply such draconian measures.

I understand from reading the directive that sanctions such as fines can be imposed in cases where administrative requirements are not met in a reasonable time limit. However I have never read where it states residency can be refused if the same is not met.

I would welcome any constructive take on this one.

My main question is whether or not the DOJ is allowed to reject applications on these bases. Could there be an ulterior motive, for giving applicant such limited time to provide these “difficult to obtainâ€

obie?

have you seen or studied any case like that ?

becz they ask me PRTB letter too, i send a copy of contract between me and my landlord and write a letter explain the situation.

It is reqirement but not compulsry . Its should get it done by LANDLORD

so why shal tenant get punshiment for that.. I cant see any logic rejection of Eu treaty right becz some one did not supply the PRTB letter.

Anyway thats wht i think.......

mirzhar wrote:obie?

have you seen or studied any case like that ?

becz they ask me PRTB letter too, i send a copy of contract between me and my landlord and write a letter explain the situation.

It is reqirement but not compulsry . Its should get it done by LANDLORD

so why shal tenant get punshiment for that.. I cant see any logic rejection of Eu treaty right becz some one did not supply the PRTB letter.

Anyway thats wht i think.......

Mirzhar don't worry about the PRTB . I think you most likely will be fine.
I am in similar position. They are aware it takes 14 weeks to be processed.

The thing that gets to me is when payslips are sent a month late, and as a result applications are declined.

Another example that makes me cringe, is when they requested i provide them evidence that my sister is my guardian and that she has been my sole provider, even though they are aware i am under 21. I received that letter about 5 day later and had to obtain a 2 years statement from my UK bank for my student account.

It took a total of about 20 days for me to compile the requested documents. I had to get a friend of mine to obtain other documents from our storage.

I did not meet the 10 day deadline, and i wrote to them about the illegality of the request and how unreasonable the 10 days deadline is. However i provided it to them , and they never replied.

Hopefully they will not reject me on that basis.

I just thought it is cynical to reject application because requested documents were not provided in that narrow time limit.

I know it is the Landlord's responsibility, but the DOJ don't see it that way. You have to force your landlord to get it for you. If he/she refuses, deduct it from their rent and do it, or report them. It is illegal for them not to provide it to you.

HELLOE EVRY ONE .. I AM THE BIG EXAMPLE THAT I COULDNT SEN THEM MY WIFES PAYSLIPS IN 10 WORKING DAYS I WAS ONLY 2 WEEKS LATE .. THEY SENT ME REFUSAL LETTER AFTER 6 MONTHS AND LATER MY CASE WAS IN REVIEW DEPARTMENT AND I HAD TO WAIT 4 MONTHS AND 2 WEEKS EXTRA WITHOUT ANY SPECIFIC REASON NOW I GOT MY 5 YERA LETTER QUITE RELIEVED ... SO I HAD TO WAIT TOTAL 6+4 MONTHS TO GET APPROVAL LETTER OF THAT SMALLL MISTAKE THAT I SENT THEM MY WIFES PAYSLIPS ONLY 2 WEELS LATE LOL ... GOD BLESS U ALL

No they can not request a hard to get document and demand you produce it within 10 days or your application is rejected.

If this happens you should immediately contact Solvit.
http://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/

Also be sure to keep a writen record of ALL communications with DOJ. It makes it a lot easier to sue them later.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:No they can not request a hard to get document and demand you produce it within 10 days or your application is rejected.

If this happens you should immediately contact Solvit.
http://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/

Also be sure to keep a writen record of ALL communications with DOJ. It makes it a lot easier to sue them later.

That is exactly what they do. Ask for solvit, they are sometime quite hopeless.

The last time i called them, (Sinead) was complaining that the DOJ don't reply to their correspondent anymore, and that they don't know what to do.

My best bet is to take them to court. I am working on that tirelessly.

They previously asked my older sibling for evidence of dependancy.
Last month they send a request for me to provide the same, even though i am under 21. The difference in my own case is that they were a bit subtle in their request.

I am quite fed up with them. They are acting as if they don't know what they are doing.

Their letter never made any mention of the nearly 30 recorded delivery letter i have sent them so far.

They are driving me crazy. I used to be a calmed and relaxed person, now i am becoming quite hyper-reactive.

Obie wrote:now i am becoming quite hyper-reactive.

You don't say.

Anyway.. There is a lot of "this is what the DoJ do" on this thread. Little or no scope is left for "this is what I have personally experienced". The two are quite different.

This PRTB letter, which is nothing more than confirmation that a private tenancy exists between two parties on a rented home, is being made out be some kind of golden ticket.

For the record, all six of my non-EU national family members who live with me in Ireland (and have the right to reside in accordance with the Directive) have been issued with their Residence Cards within six months of application and at no point was a PRTB letter provided to the DoJ.

When assessing whether an applicant for a Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen is entitled to same, the DoJ is only interested in three main points:

• Is there evidence to confirm that the EEA national is resident in Ireland?
• Is there evidence to confirm that the EEA national is exercising a Treaty Right?
• Is there evidence to confirm that the applicant is a family member of the EEA national as referred to in Article 2(2) or 3(2) of Directive 2004/38/EC?

A PRTB letter is not the only evidence to affirm that a person (EEA national or not) is resident at a particular address. Copy of rental agreement, utility bills (or others) can be equally, if not more, conclusive evidence of residence in Ireland.

Thanks Ben,

I appreciate your input, and reassurance.

I shall write another letter to them with those points you jotted down.

They had requested a bank statement in me and my sister's name, obviously i couldn't provide it as i don't have a PPS, and hence thought i will not be able to open a bank account.

I only found out about a month ago that i could open an account with my UK driver's licenses and that my UK ILR will not be an hindrance to me opening a bank account with my passport.

I sought legal advise few weeks back, and was told that article 10 (2D) gives power to the Minister of Justice in the absence of a Registration Certificate to stipulate what he deems to be sufficient proof that one is legally resident in the state and that their residence is lawful, and hence the PRTB is a lawful requirement.

However i wasn't disputing that, it's just the limited time they gave me to provide it that was getting to me, and the fact that it is only family members of EU national that are asked to prove their resident in the state in that manner, not any other applicant.

The letter from the DOJ drew my attention to the fact that it is stated on their website that PRTB is a requirement for EU1 application if one is renting an accommodation in Ireland.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP08000033

One again, I very much appreciate you take, and have a great evening.

Hi ben when did u apply for residence card for ur family members?? coz i know before the DOJ were not asking for this PRTB letter..i have 2 friends that applied last year and none of them was asked to provide PRTB letter...

SHAZ

You wait almost year for a letter. Does ur time period count when u cam or when they approve your letter

& Also when you received refusal how did you approach DOJ for reveiw .?? I mean did you contact solicitor or anything else.

& Also was you given stamp 4 during your application was pending and re-entry visa. ??

I am asking becz what if some one have to go somewhere abroad in emergency then what shall we do ?

So confusing and tiring journey my friend .. Hope best for every one .

akwadaa wrote:Hi ben when did u apply for residence card for ur family members?? coz i know before the DOJ were not asking for this PRTB letter..i have 2 friends that applied last year and none of them was asked to provide PRTB letter...

Most recently, March 2009.

mirzhar wrote:Does ur time period count when u cam or when they approve your letter

when u cam.

benifa wrote:

akwadaa wrote:Hi ben when did u apply for residence card for ur family members?? coz i know before the DOJ were not asking for this PRTB letter..i have 2 friends that applied last year and none of them was asked to provide PRTB letter...

Most recently, March 2009.

how long u had to wait to get an approval?? just wondering..i got my 6months 2day...i came here in 2003 and i applied for EU1 in june 2009

akwadaa wrote:
how long u had to wait to get an approval?? just wondering..i got my 6months 2day...i came here in 2003 and i applied for EU1 in june 2009

Akwadaa, i think the DOJ deals with all cases differently. Their process is quite random. For Example some people receive a temporary Stamp 4 immediately upon receipt of their application,others like myself didn't. I tried fighting them by bombarding them with letters. When i eventually received the ministers letter, it was useless, the GNIB said they haven't received instructions from DOJ to issue me with the temporary Stamp 4.
That is the score till today. No further reply to nearly 30 subsequent recorded delivery letter.

Things went more or less well with Ben's family members, because they are aware of him probably, and knows not to mess with him. Possibly, his status in Ireland would have helped as well.

There is no guarantee that our situation will be as smooth as his, however we still have to ensure we minimise the extent at which they trample on our rights, and resist any intimidation tactics-like 10 days threat they will try to impose on us to scare us.

Their work ethos is appauling and their behaviour is quite erratic , i would say. It doesn't mean they will not give us a response in 6 month, positive or negative, hopefully it will be the former.


I have used more than half of my holiday money, to send letters to them and i will continue to do so until i leave in two weeks, and be hopeful for the best and prepare for the worst.

I will advise you guys to stay relax and remember, that we are not doing anything wrong, we are just exercising our rights to be with our family.

Our families are paying so much tax into the system, and all we are getting is repulsive treatment from these incompetent people , who don't want us to live with them. Trying to frustrate us in what ever way they can.

I heard about a guy who died two days after he got his residency, because of the stress they made him endure.

We should try not to get ourselves in that position, and prepare for whatever fight necessary, at the same time trying to maintain our sanity.