A quick question or two!

andy and ann wrote:Thanks a lot Obie, I don't know much about the Irish possibility so I am going to read up on it right away!

Thanks once again :)

Bear in mind I am a pessimist and Obie the the optimist around here!

And that Ireland has one of the worst records (worse than UK) for honouring EU immigration directives....

324-7 England, where are your priorities man?!!

lol you two!

I was just reading this document...

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/eunati ... d#14772504

If I am reading the right thing, it would mean once again proving that I am financially secure and after spending some time in Ireland if I didn't manage to find any work then I would probably be very far from financially secure.

Wanderer wrote:
Bear in mind I am a pessimist and Obie the the optimist around here!

And that Ireland has one of the worst records (worse than UK) for honouring EU immigration directives....

324-7 England, where are your priorities man?!!

I am actually living in the Irish Republic, if anyone is or should be pessimistic, it should be me. I have to deal with those incompetent individuals on a daily basis. I believe in hope, even when i feel hopeless.

I think it is the best option under the current circumstance for the OP. The fact that they are English speaking, would make it more conducive for the Op's wife.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, sometimes.

The Ireland Option is just in case you are unable to obtain the UK EEA permit before the Birth. That will be an easier way of getting her into the UK (Main Land or Northern Ireland) and enable her to access UK services there.

In Ireland, you can claim unemployment benefit while you are seeking job for the first six months and this will not affect you wife's resident card application, so long as you are actively seeking work and has a realistic prospect of securing one.

This is provided for, in EU freedom of movement laws.

That way, you financial predicament will not be that bad.

Also if you child is in the UK with your wife, and at least one of you is a British citizen or has a settlement status, then the British Government cannot deport your wife as rule 248 which sprung from the European court ruling against the UK in the case of Hanna Yousef Abdulla, a Kuwaiti who fought that his right to private and family life will be violated if he was separated from his son in the UK.

My fairytale world...

From what I was reading, page after page, I really did think it would be a flawless way for us to enter the UK. I asked on here for some confirmation really, as it was always going to be a big gamble. One of the reasons that I want a speedy entrance is so that we can get a family visit visa for her mum to come over and help her.

Thankyou for the advice with regards to Ireland, I really don't like that option as we won't know anyone there and it is a little bit scary and the financial implications are a little bit too risky. I am going to give these people a call tomorrow and see what they say:

http://www.lawcentreni.org/EoR/immigrat ... COMPARISON

After this we will make a decision. I think that we might well try the Bulgarian route, and if after 3 months we have failed she can come back here to give birth. This will, at least, get her home to her family with lots of time before the birth. She does want her mother around and I understand her wishes.

If we fail and she returns here, I will return to the UK and work so that we can save some money. At least this builds our case stronger that she has lived in an EU country and returned. I will be honest now, I will never earn enough money to survive in Bulgaria, but to excercise my treaty rights I haven't read anything that requires a high wage.

I will keep you all posted on this, and do a full write-up when I finally get my family home!

Of course, if there is anything else that could be added then please feel free!


Thanks so much for all the help so far! We will succeed.


Thats a FACT!

How is it going Andy?

I haven't given up, but unfortunately I just came across this article

What about EU citizens who claim to be covered by the EU rules on free movement?

Abuse could also occur when EU citizens, unable to be joined by their third country family members in their Member State of origin because of the application of national immigration rules preventing it, move to another Member State with the sole purpose to evade, upon returning to their home Member State, the national law that frustrated their family reunification efforts, invoking their rights under Community law. The defining characteristics of the line between genuine and abusive use of Community law should be based on the assessment of whether the exercise of Community rights in a Member State from which the EU citizens and their family members return was genuine and effective.

which came from here:

http://www.eubusiness.com/Living_in_EU/ ... ent-guide/

I guess that supercedes this?

It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he/ she could come back to the UK with his/ her family members under EC law.

From the UK's website here:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/eunati ... t#14763111


That is disappointing! Any thoughts?

wow you were messaging me at the same time

I did come across another good article here today:

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

It sets out a few things in an easy to understand manner. I emailed a friend today who is going to check out the speed of getting the residency card, it seems that it could be issued almost immediately in Bulgaria from what I have managed to find out. That would then clear the way to get the EEA family permit.

Unfortunately, the article from the EU could put a spanner in the works

Really interesting thanks for the link.....but you haven't actually been turned down for a settlement visa for your wife just a VV (unable to be joined by their third country family members in their Member State of origin because of the application of national immigration rules preventing it), you should really think about exercising treaty rights for six months....and maybe try what Obie suggested?? Going to Ireland that way your child will have a better chance of being born in the UK....as she could have the baby in Northern Ireland?

I don't think it is really a case of getting the resident card....I know for a fact a friend of mine had to prove she was working in another member state even though her husband had had his RC for years, before they would issue a Family Permit!

That is the whole point of EU law you have to had been exercising treaty rights!

I never thought of that Ciaramc, with regard to only being turned down for the VV! Thats a great one!

Sorry I guess I am talking to myself with regard to the residency card, I had read that that can take up to six months but it does make it easier if it is instant.

I do understand what yourself and Obie are saying with regard to Ireland, but it is not me that is having the baby, and my wife only wants it either here in The Philippines or England. I totally understand her wishes.

I wouldn't get too worked up about the guidelines, Case law supersedes a guideline.

It was aimed at appeasing countries like, UK, Germany, Ireland, Denmark and Italy who were uncompromisingly advocating for a change in the law, as they saw and continue to see it as too liberal.They claimed it was abused, and this has led to lots of marriages of convenience.

You only have to engaged in meaningful economic activity. Regardless of whether or not your intentions were to get your wife to the UK through that means, your wife will qualify. So long as you were not paying your self in another member state or registering yourself as self-employed when you were not doing any business or self-employment activity, the law will be in your favour.

Remember you don't have to prove the negative, it is the Secretary of State in the UK duty to do that.

Thanks for that one

Its quite funny really, the reason I was in The Philippines last winter is because I vowed never to spend another winter in Bulgaria and now I am hoping to its so funny how things turn out!

I have a Bulgarian friend with whom I could start a business with doing translations, I check them for her and have done for years. It could be high time to get that up and running now!

Surely it would prove to be a legitimate reason to go to the UK just for a visit whilst the business was still in operation? I honestly don't know how my wife will cope with a BG winter!

After reading those guidelines though, I realise that you were right about the six months thing all along!

Have you contacted the embassies?

The six months rule was not explicitly stated on the Surinder Singh ruling.

It is a de facto rule that the UK implemented.

However, if you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were engaged in meaningful activity as i mentioned, then you will be fine.

Do they have harsh winter in Bulgaria? do you speak it fluently as well ? That is quite interesting

Winter can be very cruel there, I was unlucky that I copped the worst winter for 30 years! Hope I don't get the worst one for 50 this time around!

My Bulgarian is only conversational, but when Bulgarians translate documents it is never quite right so I correct them.

I did mention before that a job offer that I could have would only be for little money, so maybe forming a business is a better route to take, as a job for little money would probably not be considered a meaningful activity.

Although I didn't bother to register when I lived there doh! I do have many stamps in my passport from before they joined the EU that can prove my connection there. I can come up with my rental agreement for my flat though and that sort of thing. It all helps I suppose!

Sorry I forgot your question, which embassies are you talking about? Today I have been trying to find out about the residence card, which is fine now.

We are thinkiing of heading to Manila the capital on thursday to apply for the entry visas for The Netherlands and Bulgaria. We will have to land in Netherlands and then fly again to Bulgaria.

When we were applying for her original visa the embassy here refused to help in any way.

They are not supposed to use wage or salary earned to access whether or not someone's work was meaningful.

The length/duration of service, and how many hours a week you were working is usually used.

You can do the job in conjunction with the self-employment idea you came up with.

The EU route will be a better option as well if you want to sponsor you wife's family over. It increases your option.

Has her parents reached the age of 65 and has she any other dependent.

You are absolutely right about using the EU route, everything I read about it makes it look much, much easier. There are no fees for a start, ever! In a document I was reading today I noticed how easy it would be for her parents to come over too. Her parents are 55ish. She has no other dependants.

Thats great news with regard to them judging whether a job is meaningful or not! I will also be applying to teach English in a school there. Its a long-shot but could come off. That would help tremendously!

I only wish I had found this forum before we ever even applied for her family visit visa. We would be there in Bulgaria already!

One other thing I will mention is that if we are not in the UK by the time she is six months pregnant she will return to the Philippines alone. I will continue to work in Bulgaria. She will already have her residency card so after the birth I believe it would make it much easier. Downside: We will be applying for the EEA Family permit after about 4 months.

If it is rejected, does that make it harder to reapply?

andy and ann wrote:One other thing I will mention is that if we are not in the UK by the time she is six months pregnant she will return to the Philippines alone. I will continue to work in Bulgaria. She will already have her residency card so after the birth I believe it would make it much easier. Downside: We will be applying for the EEA Family permit after about 4 months.

If it is rejected, does that make it harder to reapply?

Sorry for not replying sooner.

EEA family permit is issued under EU law, and not national law. If all the conditions are met, it should be issued free of charge, and should only be refused on grounds of Public Policy (Terrible Criminal Record), Public Health or Public Security (Terrorism).

Previous refusal for any reason doesn't and shouldn't have any effect on subsequent application.

Ooh thats a nice one!

Fingers crossed then that the 'accelerated' visa application process is pretty speedy, so that we can get on a plane sooner rather than later!

Thanks once again Obie for all your help, you're a star! It is quite a relief you know that we can go to the UK using this route, fingers crossed that we can get it the first time!

Time to sleep, speak again soon.

Regards to you.

How are things going Andy?

I hope you guys are doing okay

Hi Obie, we're doing pretty good thankyou

We delayed our trip to the capital until sunday, because decided to get an entry visa for Germany as well. We might not have had enough time to get around to 3 embassies and it would be a bit of a waste to have to spend the weekend in a hotel if we missed one.

So on Sunday we go to Manila, which is 6 hours by bus, and on monday we get the entry visas for Germany, The Netherlands and Bulgaria! We will have one for Germany as well in case I find a good deal for a flight to there!

Then it will just be a question of waiting to see when we get them so we can get on a plane! It really is such a shame we didn't know about this avenue months ago, I think we would already be in England! Thats Life I guess.

Better late than never.

A Schengen visa obtained from either the Netherlands or German embassy would allow you to travel to nearly all the EU member state (Except UK and Ireland) without the need to apply for additional visa.

Check with the Bulgarian embassy to see if they have started issuing a Schengen Visa. If they have, you would not even need to apply for the Dutch or German one as it will allow you to travel to all these countries without the need to apply for their individual visas.

How is the guest house plan going? are you putting an hold on it?

I guess it was when you guys told me to get a visa before getting on the flight that I was a little bit concerned and so I figured for a little bit more hassle, we can get the visa for each country so that we know we are safe and not going to be denied boarding. I will check about the Schengen from Bulgaria though.

The guesthouse idea failed, I walked nearly every street in this mountain city looking for properties to lease. Found one that would have been perfect, so went to the Town Hall to find out who owned it and then couldn't find his house so sent a letter by registered mail. No reply. I put an advert in the local newspaper asking for a suitable property, but again no reply. We nearly bought an internet cafe, but the sale fell through, so then I began walking all around the city again but this time in search of a suitable premises to have an internet cafe. No joy once again. Internet cafe's are very popular here and must be profitable 'cos they are everywhere!

That is basically why I came back to the forum because after all our trouble we were unable to get a business of any sort going. I guess it is our destiny!

I have been thinking, after seeing this link on the European board on the subject of the guy maybe going to Ireland because his spouse visa was denied for 19 year old wife:

¨ the UK national must have exercised such rights for a period sufficient to have established himself there. Normally this should be taken to mean at least 6 months but discretion may be exercised, for example, where the UK national has genuinely worked abroad but had good cause to return to the United Kingdom after a shorter period;

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/EROR ... /c7s3e.htm

If we manage to get the Residency Card in record time, which I think is a good possibility from what I have read online, then I really think that there would be no harm in applying for the family permit very soon after that. Although I only have a rental agreement as proof, I lived in Bulgaria for 19 months before moving to the Philippines. I have then lived in the Philippines, and it is almost 3 years since I lived in the UK, aside from visits of no more than 2 weeks at a time. The only problem is that I was living self-sufficiently so not excercising my treaty rights. Although I could say I was looking for work.

I think that if I said that the care my wife recieved for her pregnancy was inadequate then that should be a good cause to return to the UK.